Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

[alanmolstad]

Just for me, I want you to try to read the text one time and believe it as it appears, regardless if this then agrees with YEC or not.

this means that when you read that God made all the "Heavens" first at the very start,"In the beginning" you believed it...

[alanmolstad]

I look forward to your findings...

[jude1:3]

I'm seriousely surprised that you are defending evolution when it is such an anti Christian theory that has done so much to destroy the faith of people's belief in God. Not just in the Christian belief in God but other faiths also.

Also, it was created by ungodly men specifially to decieve and curupt the world view of people and especially young people in universitys.

[alanmolstad]

What I do is quote the bible....ever see me not?

[alanmolstad]

What's the first thing that the bible listed that God created in the beginning? ...

You will either answer based on the text or you will try to dodge around what you see clearly the text says.

What will you do?

[jude1:3]

How many people have come to believe in The Lord Jesus Christ through Evolution compared to being converted to atheism through evolution ?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What's the first thing that the bible listed that God created in the beginning? ...

and the answer is- "In the beginning, God Created the HEAVENS and the EARTH"





So the Bible lists the "Heavens"as the very first thing God created.
Thats not my opinion, thats what the Text says.
Some YEC teachers might not like it, but thats too bad, the Text says what the Text says.....

I just read it and believe it.

[alanmolstad]

now why dont YEC teachers like to answer my question asked above about the first things God created in the story?.....The ANSWER is- that they dont like what the Bible says because it totally will mess up what they teach about Young Earth Creationism.

Its that simple....
They dont like what the Bible teaches so that dont answer my questions about that topic.

What will they do when I ask them what the Bible says?....The try to change the topic...they bring up stuff not connected to my question in the hope of getting off the topic of what the Bible teaches....

[jude1:3]

You shouldn't call it evolution. You should call it YEC vs Really Old Earth or something else because honestly evolution only leads to atheism.

[alanmolstad]

thus......when I ask the question about what the Bible says.....you can learn what side of this question you are on by your answer..

Willyou read the Text and believe it as written?

or -

Willyou try to ignore what the Bible says in black and white, and try also to change the topic?





If you can answer my question about what the Bible says at Gen 1:1 then you are on the Lord's side.....you trust the bible .

But if you have to twist out of answering?.....You are on the side of the YEC , the side of "men's thinking"...and false ideas.





So I ask then- "At Genesis 1:1 what does the Bible list as the very first thing God created In the beginning?"

[jude1:3]

Atheists believe in Evolution Alan because that is where evolution leads them.

[alanmolstad]

Walter martin always allowed for the fact that the earth is old.....millions and billions of years old...

You may have heard of Ken Samples who used to cover for Walter on the Bible Answer Man show.....would you be interested in learning what Mr Samples thinks of the topic of the Old Earth?....and how it fits with the story of Genesis?

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You may have heard of Ken Samples who used to cover for Walter on the Bible Answer Man show.....would you be interested in learning what Mr Samples thinks of the topic of the Old Earth?....and how it fits with the story of Genesis?

Sure, sounds good.

[alanmolstad]

Ken Samples: “I think the age of the earth and universe is a very important scientific and apologetics topic. I also think it is quite appropriate for Christians to engage in debates and dialogues concerning these controversial science-faith issues. Unfortunately, this has become a very contentious topic for many Christians. Some believers seem to struggle to treat the people with whom they differ over this issue with appropriate respect and grace.

Personally, I’m persuaded that science overwhelmingly supports the old-earth creationist position and that the position is quite compatible with a viable interpretation of Scripture.

https://chab123.wordpress.com/2013/0...h-ken-samples/

[alanmolstad]

so...Ken Samples, (the guy I liked the best of all the people that would cover for walter martin on his Bible Answer Man show), holds to a "Old earth Creationist"position.

But what is that position?

Lets look it up!

[alanmolstad]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism


I believe that this also was the basic position that was shared also by Walter Martin....
Walter had to answer the common questions about Genesis all the time on his radio show,and in his answers Walter always allowed for the millions and billions of years of history...

Walter was not afraid that the earth was very, very old....and that creatures lived and died for millions and millions of years before the rise of modern man.

Now when we checked on what "Old Earth Creationism" means, what we find is that its a large set of different understandings that have some connections with each other...

and also when we read about what is known as OEC we see the heading of "Theistic evolution".

[alanmolstad]

so Theistic evolution (what I believe) is connected closely with Old Earth Creationism (what Ken Samples believes) and Ken's position is what Walter Martin taught in his answers on the show....


It's all basically the same idea.

That idea is that the earth is here because god created it,and that life is here because god created it,and that nothing in the story of Genesis stands against science and/or evolution....That the two works (evolution and Genesis)can work to help us understand this creation...

[alanmolstad]

so what Im showing here is that the Theistic evolution position is a very well respected position within the Christian church.

Im also showing that many of the very preachers within the church that are the most respected ( like Martin and Samples) share with me the idea that the earth is very old.

This is why it is so silly for people to react sometimes the way they do here...Just because a person believes that the earth is old does not mean that the "sky is falling"...

[jude1:3]

I understand what you are saying. I would still try to distance myself from the term evolution though.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by jude1:3

I understand what you are saying. I would still try to distance myself from the term evolution though.

As Walter martin used to say when answering questions about Evolution , "What difference does it make?..Whether life on the earth was created in 6 days, or whether it evolved in a billion years, the point is that God created that life"


I do not defend evolution, nor do I teach it...
But what I do do is teach that there is nothing in the Bible that stands against evolution, nor are there any anti-evolution arguments in the genesis story.
And that both evolution and genesis can work hand in hand to offer the student of the Bible a well-rounded understanding of early earth history.

In my view, evolution is just a tool of the Lord...its no more evil than air ,or rain, or gravity, or any of the natural laws that are in the world around us....
and as such it should be respected as a tool of the Lord's hands.

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

In my view, evolution is just a tool of the Lord...its no more evil than air ,or rain, or gravity, or any of the natural laws that are in the world around us....
and as such it should be respected as a tool of the Lord's hands.

*Sigh* A tool of The Lord would never promote atheism and racism. The theory of evolution was created by evil unsaved and unbelieving men to promote disbelief.

[alanmolstad]

god made water too, and men can use water for good or evil.....but shall we blame the water?

Evolution is a natural part of God's creation... It's no more evil that rain or sunshine.

men can use the things that are made for good or evil it is true, the Bible was written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, yet it has been used by men to do many people great harm....

shall we blame God?...

shall we blame the Bible?

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

As Walter martin used to say when answering questions about Evolution , "What difference does it make?..Whether life on the earth was created in 6 days, or whether it evolved in a billion years, the point is that God created that life"


I do not defend evolution, nor do I teach it....

Evolution is, ,

Gasp, Quick, someone hand me something to cover the nakedness. Really chief, you say “I don’t teach” but do. You say you don’t, but after your denials of instruction in it, deny that denial by informing the reader on evolution. You say you don’t, but through hoodwinking techniques hopes the reader will buy it? Ridiculous.

Yet, an interesting quote you’ve brought to bare, as it does exactly what Jude1:3 suggests and is no more a comment towards a tool of evolution than anyone could possibly support. To suggest that is an inflammatory remark on his words. You can take a slice of wording and make it say about anything you want to, but until an author (Mr. Martin) comes out with an extensive and repeat comment that supports an issue, even within the space of a paragraph, the effort to extract becomes obvious. I'm honestly sorry if that is too blunt, but I'm afraid that is too much to swallow unless you have some more.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

..... I'm honestly sorry if that is too blunt,

Oh not at all.
As Ive told you before, I dont really understand anything you post.

In fact, most of the time when I attempt to read something you have written I find myself comparing reading your words to listening to my aquarium pump.....I know its making noise but it dont really involve me personally....

and on the topic of how people post on this issue-


Mostly I see that the difference in how I post and how the people that disagree with me post is this:
When I post on this topic I try to stick to the text of the Bible and show what the text says in black and white, and how it works and what it means and how this all teaches us many important things.

When the other guys post they mostly just insult me.....



thats the difference.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Oh not at all.
As Ive told you before, I dont really understand anything you post.

In fact, most of the time when I attempt to read something you have written I find myself comparing reading your words to listening to my aquarium pump.....I know its making noise but it dont really involve me personally....

and on the topic of how people post on this issue-

Mostly I see that the difference in how I post and how the people that disagree with me post is this:
When I post on this topic I try to stick to the text of the Bible and show what the text says in black and white, and how it works and what it means and how this all teaches us many important things.

When the other guys post they mostly just insult me.....

thats the difference.

Okay, so when you say you “don’t teach evolution”, it isn’t to be taken at face-value. What you want the reader to know is that you don’t add random thought on evolution, but teach evolution as taken from the word of God. Is that what you are saying?