Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

It's found at , , ,

next question?

Who's question are you answering?

This is the question I still need answered.

As to whomever you intended this for, it is still the same,

Your comment is void from the purpose of the thread.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4]Who's question are you answering?

.....

If at any point I teach something about the Genesis creation story that you doubt is supported by the Genesis text, just ask me, "Where does it say that?" and I will by happy to show you.

For I believe all that I teach on this or any other topic is fully supported by the bible.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I teach on this or any other topic is fully supported by the bible.

My, how nice that sounds, to bad your "any" isn't what the Bible means when it says "any".

This is still the question that remains unanswered on this thread, thereby poisoning the purpose of "Biblical Scrutiny".

So, in review, all I got for my question is evasion. Surprise surprise, who would have guessed?

Gueeze! Surely, someone here recognizes a simple question when they see it?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4]My, how nice that sounds, to bad your "any" .....

Well I cant tell you what i meant....

Any topic that i have taught on in connection with our main topic of Genesis and what is written in Genesis I would be more than happy to go over again with anyone interested...

But Im not at all interested in other diversions*...

And that the trouble is it not?...for I have seen over and over the the YEC teachers/websites/ and books seem to want to go off on tangents rather that confronting what the Bible says.

Oh how the YEC teachers love to get the conversation dragged down into endless debates over evolution and over DNA and over things like micro-this and Macro-that...
But what you notice is that when a guy only wants to talk about what the bible says?...then all you get is pointless attacks and sidetracked.
I saw the same with Ken Ham in person.

If a guy wants to ask a question about what the Bible says was the "First thing listed that god created in the beginning?"...all you get is the answer, "Well that might be what the Bible says, but it means something else"...and then they always go off on a pointless tangent that has nothing to do with Genesis 1:1.
(An example:To ask questions that are not part of the Genesis text but are only based on their own personal views in an aim to side-track the discussion, ie,"Evolution is evil,why do you insult Christians by teaching evil?")

But Im only interested in reading what the Bible says...

Thats why i like to stick to only what is written about the creation in the Bible, and I dont allow myself to get dragged into endless debates over evolution.....

Nor do i allow myself to get dragged into arguments over personal matters best left off the open forum.

If a person whats to know some type of person question, best ask that in a "private message".

So sticking to the main point of our topic on Genesis, I shall now go on to talk about some things people might not have caught when they read the story.

The key to understanding why the earth is said to be in Darkness after the creation of the "heavens" (The sun and stars) we need to just look at *** 38 for our answer.

At *** 38 we see the bible talking about the same point in history that Genesis is dealing with.

At *** 38 we also see the reason why the Earth is said to be in "darkness"in Genesis...

The reason is given as thick clouds that god wrapped the early earth in.



Its that simple....

it was due to thick clouds.














* I totally ignore all smart-mouth junk that gets tossed my way that can only be a gateway to a lot of personal bickering and pointlessness.

Thus when a guy posts to me something like "Alan evolution is evil,why do you insult Christians and teach what is evil?" I just write that poster off as acting like a silly child and continue on without them as if they don't matter.

Because they dont matter, they are not part of my discussion.

I also dont give a darn if some poster whines that "Alan ignores my questions"if I also consider the guy's questions to be nothing but yet another silly sidetrack attempt.

Now about every night I get a lot of Personal Messages from people who drop by this website, see my posts,and want to know more about what Im saying.
I try to answer such questions as best I can,while always sticking close to the text we see before us in Genesis at all times.

I also think its funny,yet disappointingly common to see how some people are so frustrated at not being able to out-debate me on the topic of Genesis, they they write to the Forum MODs in an effort to get them to come to their rescue.

My advice to such people?.....read your Bible more, then maybe you wont feel so helpless all the time

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

“But Im only interested in reading what the Bible says”

“Because they dont matter, they are not part of my discussion.”

Maybe you should have thought about that before walking into a thread bearing the ***le of “Biblical scrutiny”

It’s time to shed childishness and take responsibility man, answer the question directly

A narrow mind might attempting to convince himself he is in the right by staying narrow may think he’s right, , but with the effort you give to shudder God’s word from us proves it is not!

“Now about every night I get a lot of Personal Messages from people who drop by this website, see my posts,and want to know more about what Im saying.”

Then they are right there with you ignoring the will of God brought to everyone from our wording.

The evasion continues.

What about the silence concerning God's will concerning this? Why do you continue to ignore them? Hello? It God's word, not man's as you like to think.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

answer the question directly

.......

If anyone has a question about anything I have taught on the Genesis creation story, just ask and I will be happy to return to the issue and address it.


Now building on what I have been teaching on above...today I will talk about the 4th day,and the idea some in the YEC cult believe about it.

many YEC teachers will try to say that god did not make the stars until the 4th day.
This idea goes totally against what science teaches us about the creation of the universe.
The YEC teachings therefore run counter to modern science and this is why many of the best and brightest within the Christian church are being driven out due to the way some YEC teachers will attack such Christians as being "against the Bible" .

Well Im here to set the record straight!

The fact is, the Bible does not teach that God made the stars on the 4th day!

Yes, I know in your Bible it might "say" that, but what you will learn if you dig into this issue is that the idea that God also made the stars on the 4th day was added to the text and does not actually appear in the oldest Hebrew scriptures.>

To check on this, all you have to do is look at the text for the 4th day in a King James Version of the Bible.

The King James make use of little study helps that allow the student to see what words were added to the text...
Some king James will put words in brackets [] or will write the added words in italic

By checking in the King James you will clearly see that the words teaching that God also made the stars on the 4td Day was added.

This is just a cold hard fact....The Bible does not say that God also made the stars on the 4th day at all !

and.....when you remove the added words,the Bible's original sentence at that point reads so much more better.
The text is simply saying at that point that the "lessor light" will rule over the night and the stars also.


This fact cant be denied!

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

This fact cant be denied!

Can a man brag against God's will?

Cherry pick my comment all you want to your own peril.

Alan attempts to throw attention away from God’s will stating that the whole thing is that man has the problem here that keeps getting in the way.

Let’s see now, what could possibly go wrong avoiding God’s will as we presented?

Furthermore, what could possibly be wrong with desperately trying to cover one’s tracks while running away from that presentation?

Now just so it is clear who goes on record for teaching the WHOLE councel of God.

“For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.” (Acts 20:27)

What teaching would poor misguided souls lean to; snippet interpretation, or “all the counsel”?

Now it can correctly be asked in this thread:

If anyone has a question about anything I have taught on the Genesis creation story, just ask and I will be happy to return to the issue and address it.

Not some snippet-mister who refuses to defend the position from, lookout – “BIBLICAL SCRUTINY”.

He loves to run a piece with you till it gets too hot in the kitchen, then its “head for tall gr***, I can’t take it anymore”, WAAAAAAAAAH!

Does anyone not love the word of God anymore? Does not anyone believe in it’s IITimothy 3:16 profitability anymore?

What happened to the friendlier aids of the lexicon, cross-reference and concordance? Do we now pick and choose what p***ages permit open exposure to other p***ages. That sir is the true “hand-in-hand, when you find God spoke through holy men of God by the Holy Spirit.

No proper student of Bible study even think of contravening II Peter 1:20 for any portion of scripture. Alan sees no problem there.

Stubbornness shows up upon the doorstep of opportunity to lure away from all such sound teaching tools. Disgusting, don’t you think, to stray from the ***ertion pointed out from God’s word?

Yeah yeah, it’s back to your unsubstantiated Genesis perversion. Oh sorry, formula to you, perversion to those you upset.

Gonna fix that right up again with your Genesis trumpet? Ain’t nobody gonna cause Alan to lose composure over other reason or scripture.

Com’n Alan, you’re the epitome of Bible-soundness, what is the danger of mis-handling the scriptures? Better yet, tell us, what are the dangers of false teaching?

Can you even say these words that you refuse. Say them one at a time, ,

False Teaching

Private Interpretation

God’s Will

Each one of those are directly related to each other. Now it’s plain you want to maintain you are showing God’s will in Genesis and no more. But we know why you don’t say that, because you can’t explain why Genesis ONLY. Because that just isn’t how it works, which everyone is aware.

So to make it easy on you since you are so easily upset that I intrude with the additionals, ,

Why Genesis only?

[alanmolstad]

you know....if you take away all the personal stuff above...not much is left.



I'm just saying....

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

not much is left. I'm just saying....

Would you mind telling me something new concerning your view of God's will?

[MichaellS]

It’s called God’s will.

Learn it,

Love it,

Live it.

Aka, Christianity.

[MichaellS]

Go ahead, say it, it won't hurt!!!!!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Would you mind telling me something new concerning your view of God's will?

as it is connected to the creation story as recorded in Genesis?


ok.....Ummm....






I do believe that the writer of the Genesis account has clearly made a very big deal about the way he wrote such clear and easy to find endings to the first 6 days of the creation week...and that fact points us to the other clear intention we see in the writer's mind as to this lack of any ending in the Genesis story to the 7th day!

I believe this was no accident!
...I dont believe that this lack of any ending to the 7th day in any part of the whole bible is an accident!...
I believe it is only due to the direct inspiration of the Lord (His "will").


Now to many Bible students this fact is unknown to them,,,and thus our duty to stand up and teach the next generation what the Bible says so that truth can be p***ed on to them...


If you had a verse in Genesis that you wanted me to look at?...or if there is anything I have taught on concerning genesis?...then I can check out that verse or that post

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If you had a verse in Genesis that you wanted me to look at?...or if there is anything I have taught on concerning genesis?...then I can check out that verse or that post

You're forgetting something. So can Jude1:3 and Disciple.

But when someone wishes to prop themselves against others, why not just come out and say it - you don't interest yourself with other Christians?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

You're forgetting something. So can Jude1:3 and Disciple.

But when someone wishes to prop themselves against others, why not just come out and say it - you don't interest yourself with other Christians?

Like I said....I write on this topic only because it is of interest to me...

I like to dig deeper into what I believe because in many cases I have yet to take the time to put down in writing what I believe,and it really helps a person to be able to organize heartfelt feelings in such a manner that allows them to be recorded in written form.

But, as to some guests to this site and my views of them?......lets just say that Im always open to review anything I have written here to them, but I sometimes feel like I'm the only adult in the room at times....

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I like to dig deeper into what I believe because in many cases I have yet to take the time to put down in writing what I believe,

I sometimes feel like I'm the only adult in the room at times....

I got news, rudeness is no sign of maturity.

Neither is running away from God’s will a sign of depth.

[MichaellS]

Can’t quite force the truth out can you, but tell me it isn’t so, ,

You are concerned for God’s will shown by biblical scrutiny.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Can’t quite force the truth out can you, but tell me it isn’t so, ,

You are concerned for God’s will shown by biblical scrutiny.

Well, ,

Are you?

[MichaellS]

What is this, , dither upon repeat delay upon delay. Hesitation shows false ground under repair.

[alanmolstad]

as I have said...if I have taught on a topic something that you call into question, then just ask me, "Where does the Bible teach that?"and I will show you the verse...for all that I teach is taken from the word of God.

This is why I quote it in all my teachings,and the people that disagree with me cant quote squat to support their views of the creation story.

Ever heard a guy say that God created Adam as a fully adult human male?.....Well ask them "What verse teaches this?".....LOL

They dont got squat to back up their views...they only got the YEC websites and textbooks that simply quote the word of Henry Morris and Morris was in error....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Ever heard a guy say that God created Adam as a fully adult human male?.....Well ask them "What verse teaches this?".....LOL

Once in a while when I hear a guy try to tell me that God made Adam as a fully adult human male., I ask them in return, "Where does it say that in the Bible?"

and they are suddenly stumped!

For they know it does not say that in the Bible....(they only wish it did...LOL )

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Once in a while when I hear a guy try to tell me that God made Adam as a fully adult human male., I ask them in return, "Where does it say that in the Bible?"

and they are suddenly stumped!

For they know it does not say that in the Bible....(they only wish it did...LOL )

Well then what was Adam? If he was an infant, then who took care of him? The Bible is clear that Adam had no human parent, Luke calls him the son of God because of this (Luke 3:38). In the Old Testament, the angels are called ‘sons of God’ for the same reason,they are direct creations of God.
Was Adam some sort of ape or missing link? Perhaps you could tell us, unless you are stumped?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Well then what was Adam? If he was an infant, then who took care of him??

Do you see how your question drives you to invent your own answer?...this is the main problem I had with Ken Ham's teachings as well.

He had a problem with the sun being created on the 4th day according to his teachings, the problem he had was the "let there be light" verse that appears before the 4th day.

The question he asked was, "Where is the source for that light?" and that question was what drives him to invent the "source-less light" concept..and on that concept he hangs all his other teachings.


There is a better way....

The better way is to Teach what the Bible teaches, and for the things it does not teach , DONT INVENT STUFF!.






Its like the question, "Where did Cain's wife come from?"

people dream up all kinds of answers for that question.
They really want the Bible to have a good answer for that question, but because the bible does not say, they feel the need to invent an answer.


But once again, there is a better way.
The better way is to teach what the Bible teaches, and for the things the Bible does not teach,, DON'T INVENT STUFF !!!

[alanmolstad]

so...is there a Bible verse that teaches that god created Adam as a fully-formed adult human male?.....no




So anyone who claims God did that is just inventing ideas because they need the Bible to teach something that the bible is mute about.

[alanmolstad]

There is another thing to keep in mind when we study the Bible.

When we are reading in the Genesis account of something happening in the sky of Day 1, we cant take this to mean that nothing else could not be happening in the seas at the same time.

what we read happening on Day 1 in the sky is just what we are told was going on...not the whole list of everything that might be going on elsewhere.


Just as on a later day we read about something going on on the land...
We cant take the fact that just because something is listed going on on the land that this means that nothing else was going on...or that nothing else was going on in the sky or in the seas...

All we should understand is that when we read of some stuff happening on the land that this is just the list of stuff that the writer felt inspired to list...
It should not be considered the full list, ..

its just the list of things the writer felt were important to his story.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Perhaps you could tell us, unless you are stumped?

I can tell you ONLY what I read in the text and that's it.



So it is very true that you will always be able to ask more questions about ideas you dream up than any student of the Bible will be able to answer using only the Bible as his only source..






I can answer questions that have clear answers in the text.
So what do we read?...we read that mankind was created OUTSIDE the protected garden and was then later taken and placed into the garden.

This means that whatever life was like outside the garden?..thats actually where we are from.


What else do we read in the Bible?....we know that the word "Adam" is used as a symbol in the Bible, (the Last Adam)

We know that the source for human is the same source for the animals, (the earth)


So we see in the Text that god forms humans out of the same common source that he formed all other life, and then after God had created the man, he did something interesting to man...God breathed into the man...and that is the point we became who we are now.

Now what does it mean for God to have " breathed" into humans?.....Im not sure.

We know that God does not have a mouth, for God is not a man.
So we must seek other understandings for the words>

And this has been why great men of the church have used the verse where we see God had "breathed" in some unknown manner into us to teach all manner of teachings.

The final answer is likely known but to God alone, for we just are not told in the Bible, , and might be something as symbolic as the Bible makes use of the term "Adam" being very symbolic.



But thats what we know, for that it what we can prove with the text...


There is nothing about Adam being created as an adult human male.

The writer of Genesis has written what god wanted written, and there is nothing to support the idea that we must be able to find the answers to all our questions in the text.
The writer of Genesis is clearly not interested in all the questions we might ask about his story...

We are given what was inspired to be written,,,and thats all....