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Thread: Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

  1. #251
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Can’t quite force the truth out can you, but tell me it isn’t so, ,

    You are concerned for God’s will shown by biblical scrutiny.
    Well, ,

    Are you?

  2. #252
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    What is this, , dither upon repeat delay upon delay. Hesitation shows false ground under repair.

  3. #253
    alanmolstad
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    as I have said...if I have taught on a topic something that you call into question, then just ask me, "Where does the Bible teach that?"and I will show you the verse...for all that I teach is taken from the word of God.

    This is why I quote it in all my teachings,and the people that disagree with me cant quote squat to support their views of the creation story.

    Ever heard a guy say that God created Adam as a fully adult human male?.....Well ask them "What verse teaches this?".....LOL

    They dont got squat to back up their views...they only got the YEC websites and textbooks that simply quote the word of Henry Morris and Morris was in error....

  4. #254
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Com'n, don't I have enough backing here?

    Let’s review,

    Look up and tell yourself once again the ***le,

    Evolution Does Not Stand Up to Genesis Scrutiny, whoops!

    Evolution Does Not Stand Up to Biblical Scrutiny. There!

    I’m sorry, what were you saying applies here?

  5. #255
    alanmolstad
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    The Bible does trace mankind back to the very same source that evolution will trace back all life to.
    By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”


    This means that in the end, after all the bickering we see, the final answer is that both Evolution and Genesis agree as to where it all comes from....and where we humans are from.

    So in other words, the Bible and science might say things in different ways because they are written with different aims involved...but in the end they walk hand in hand as to the final source of life on this earth...

    thus the bickering was moot....the Bible and science stand up to our scrutiny just fine....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 09-16-2016 at 09:40 PM.

  6. #256
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Here you go again.

    Get a grip on yourself will ya, there is only one person in contention (“bickering”) with the will of God here.

    Why? Because, you can’t even bring yourself to say it. The will of God is like oil-n-water to you. Hold it up and Alan just slips right on by. Why? Because you can’t stand FULL Biblical scrutiny. Get that? FULL BIBLICAL SCRUTINY.Why? Because your ***ertions are corrected by the word of God.

    What corrections? Well, I am so glad you asked. Let’s review what the Spirit’s simplicity has inspired other to say, , ,


    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Creation occurred in six literal, consecutive days. (Gen 1, Ex 20:11) The Hebrew word for day, yom, always means literal, consecutive days when modified by a plural number. Yom was defined as a literal day when it was first used. (Gen 1:4,5) Each creation day had only one “evening and morning.”

    On the fourth creation day, the Sun, Moon, and stars were made. (Gen 1:14–19) If the word “day” in Genesis 1:14 means a long period, what do the words “year” or “night” mean in those verses?

    To survive, plants need the Sun and animals—especially insects. All were created within three literal days of each other. (Gen 1:11–23) Had it taken much longer, plants could not have survived. (Gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31)

    If evolution happened, then death was widespread before man evolved. But if death preceded man and was not a result of Adam’s sin, then sin is not the cause of death—so we do not need a Savior.

    Jesus always spoke the truth; in fact, He said He was the truth (Jn 14:6), and scripture is the truth (Jn 17:17). Certainly, Jesus knew the truth, because He was there in the beginning, and all things came into being through Him. (Jn 1:3) To say that Jesus knew the Bible contained false history, but didn’t want to tell people the truth, belies who Jesus was. He didn’t hide false ideas; He exposed them. He called the Old Testament writers, including Moses, who compiled Genesis 1–11, prophets. (Jn 5:46–47) By definition, prophets, when speaking God’s message, always spoke the truth. False prophets were stoned to death.

    Jesus was not constrained by culture, tradition, science, or concern of misunderstandings (Mt 5:1–12, Jn 6:53). Nor did He avoid subjects that were hard for listeners to understand, such as: end-times (Mt 24), the new birth (Jn 3:1–12), His crucifixion (Mt 12:40, Mk 8:31), or what follows death (Mt: 25:32–46, Jn 14:2). Jesus specifically referred to accounts in each of the first seven chapters of Genesis, something He would not have done if He knew they were not historical events. If we replace Jesus’ words with our ideas and claim they were “His real intent,” we can seemingly justify almost anything.
    Woah, great setup, delivery and punctuating close with that final point which is proven throughout this thread.

    Double-woah!

    How refreshing!!

  7. #257
    alanmolstad
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    now as I have shown, the book of *** talks about the same time in Earth's history as we are dealing with in the book of Genesis..

    But is this really true?

    Lets go read what it says at *** 38 and see if what im saying is there, is actually written there?

    *** 38...4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.


    6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof

    I think that this is clearly pointing us back to the time of genesis....
    *** 38 and the creation story found in Genesis are dealing with the same moments in early earth's history.



    This is important for as we shall see, we are abut to learn why the Bible says the earth was in darkness at the start of the Genesis story...

  8. #258
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Ever heard a guy say that God created Adam as a fully adult human male?.....Well ask them "What verse teaches this?".....LOL
    Once in a while when I hear a guy try to tell me that God made Adam as a fully adult human male., I ask them in return, "Where does it say that in the Bible?"

    and they are suddenly stumped!

    For they know it does not say that in the Bible....(they only wish it did...LOL )

  9. #259
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Once in a while when I hear a guy try to tell me that God made Adam as a fully adult human male., I ask them in return, "Where does it say that in the Bible?"

    and they are suddenly stumped!

    For they know it does not say that in the Bible....(they only wish it did...LOL )
    Well then what was Adam? If he was an infant, then who took care of him? The Bible is clear that Adam had no human parent, Luke calls him the son of God because of this (Luke 3:38). In the Old Testament, the angels are called ‘sons of God’ for the same reason,they are direct creations of God.
    Was Adam some sort of ape or missing link? Perhaps you could tell us, unless you are stumped?

  10. #260
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Well then what was Adam? If he was an infant, then who took care of him??
    Do you see how your question drives you to invent your own answer?...this is the main problem I had with Ken Ham's teachings as well.

    He had a problem with the sun being created on the 4th day according to his teachings, the problem he had was the "let there be light" verse that appears before the 4th day.

    The question he asked was, "Where is the source for that light?" and that question was what drives him to invent the "source-less light" concept..and on that concept he hangs all his other teachings.


    There is a better way....

    The better way is to Teach what the Bible teaches, and for the things it does not teach , DONT INVENT STUFF!.






    Its like the question, "Where did Cain's wife come from?"

    people dream up all kinds of answers for that question.
    They really want the Bible to have a good answer for that question, but because the bible does not say, they feel the need to invent an answer.


    But once again, there is a better way.
    The better way is to teach what the Bible teaches, and for the things the Bible does not teach,, DON'T INVENT STUFF !!!

  11. #261
    alanmolstad
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    so...is there a Bible verse that teaches that god created Adam as a fully-formed adult human male?.....no




    So anyone who claims God did that is just inventing ideas because they need the Bible to teach something that the bible is mute about.

  12. #262
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Perhaps you could tell us, unless you are stumped?
    I can tell you ONLY what I read in the text and that's it.



    So it is very true that you will always be able to ask more questions about ideas you dream up than any student of the Bible will be able to answer using only the Bible as his only source..






    I can answer questions that have clear answers in the text.
    So what do we read?...we read that mankind was created OUTSIDE the protected garden and was then later taken and placed into the garden.

    This means that whatever life was like outside the garden?..thats actually where we are from.


    What else do we read in the Bible?....we know that the word "Adam" is used as a symbol in the Bible, (the Last Adam)

    We know that the source for human is the same source for the animals, (the earth)


    So we see in the Text that god forms humans out of the same common source that he formed all other life, and then after God had created the man, he did something interesting to man...God breathed into the man...and that is the point we became who we are now.

    Now what does it mean for God to have " breathed" into humans?.....Im not sure.

    We know that God does not have a mouth, for God is not a man.
    So we must seek other understandings for the words>

    And this has been why great men of the church have used the verse where we see God had "breathed" in some unknown manner into us to teach all manner of teachings.

    The final answer is likely known but to God alone, for we just are not told in the Bible, , and might be something as symbolic as the Bible makes use of the term "Adam" being very symbolic.



    But thats what we know, for that it what we can prove with the text...


    There is nothing about Adam being created as an adult human male.

    The writer of Genesis has written what god wanted written, and there is nothing to support the idea that we must be able to find the answers to all our questions in the text.
    The writer of Genesis is clearly not interested in all the questions we might ask about his story...

    We are given what was inspired to be written,,,and thats all....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 01-05-2017 at 10:02 AM.

  13. #263
    alanmolstad
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    There is another thing to keep in mind when we study the Bible.

    When we are reading in the Genesis account of something happening in the sky of Day 1, we cant take this to mean that nothing else could not be happening in the seas at the same time.

    what we read happening on Day 1 in the sky is just what we are told was going on...not the whole list of everything that might be going on elsewhere.


    Just as on a later day we read about something going on on the land...
    We cant take the fact that just because something is listed going on on the land that this means that nothing else was going on...or that nothing else was going on in the sky or in the seas...

    All we should understand is that when we read of some stuff happening on the land that this is just the list of stuff that the writer felt inspired to list...
    It should not be considered the full list, ..

    its just the list of things the writer felt were important to his story.

  14. #264
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    .... The Hebrew word for day, yom, always means literal, consecutive days when modified by a plural number......

    ..........Wrong!.........

  15. #265
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Yom was defined as a literal day when it was first used. (Gen 1:4,5)
    ..........Wrong!.........

  16. #266
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Each creation day had only one “evening and morning.”

    ....
    ......once again....Wrong!

  17. #267
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post

    On the fourth creation day, the Sun, Moon, and stars were made.
    and that also is..... Wrong!

  18. #268
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Also, if there was any truth to evolution then the prophets, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Apostles or even The Church fathers would have written about it but they didn't.

    .
    You got nothing to back this up.

    There is not one single word in the Bible that leads the church to believe that all modern findingsof science must be talked about in the bible before we can believe they are true.

    Every day science learns more and more about this universe.....There is nothing in the Bible that says we have to disbelieve what we are learning just because its not listed already in the bible.

    And thinking that every matter, every truth, every finding of science 'would" have been already written about by men in the past is silly.


    The words found in the Bible are there so that we might believe and have faith...But not every word spoken by any of the men we read about was reciorded.

    The Bible even tells us that not everything Jesus said was recorded for us in the Bible.
    The same is true for each of the prophets
    The same is true for the Apostles
    The same is true for past church leaders in history.

    The things we do get to read that they spoke are the things the Holy Spirit decided were needed....we have no right to sit around now and call into question His judgement.

  19. #269
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Well then what was Adam? If he was an infant, then who took care of him? .....
    see how you invented a whole foundation for your understanding out of thin air?

    The fact that you dont know who took care of Adam drives you to invent that Adam was created as an adult...

    There is nothing in the bible to support that understanding,,,its just the result of men's thinking and forcing the Bible to teach things it does not say one single word about...


    Then you use that inventing idea that you just dreamed up to be the foundation of a whole set of teachings that also have not one single word in the Bible to support them...


    Its all a house of cards!

  20. #270
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    . Hold it up and Alan just slips right on by. Why? Because you can’t stand FULL Biblical scrutiny. Get that?

    any time you want me to back up something I have posted with a Bible verse?...just ask.

    Any time you want to challenge anything I have said and demand to know where it says what I claim the Bible says?....just ask.


    I would be happy to list the supporting text for all that I teach....

    But you will find that I can do so without insulting anyone .....( a rare talent as of late around these parts it seems)

  21. #271
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Evolution is A Lie. Those who promote it practice The Lie.

    Why do You Insult Other Christians ?
    One of the differences you will see in my posts is that I am able to disagree with people and not insult them while doing so.

    I can openly disagree with a room full of people, (as I did during an 8week ORIGINS cl*** taught by Ken Ham) and yet remain respectful of the people listening to me.

    I dont have to put down people just to show them that something they have been taught in the past was in error.

  22. #272
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    see how you invented a whole foundation for your understanding out of thin air?

    The fact that you dont know who took care of Adam drives you to invent that Adam was created as an adult...

    There is nothing in the bible to support that understanding,,,its just the result of men's thinking and forcing the Bible to teach things it does not say one single word about...


    Then you use that inventing idea that you just dreamed up to be the foundation of a whole set of teachings that also have not one single word in the Bible to support them...


    Its all a house of cards!
    Not my invention, blame Luke. The Bible is clear that Adam had no human parents—Luke calls him the son of God because of this (Luke 3:38)

  23. #273
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Genealogy - noun
    a line of descent traced continuously from an ancestor.
    So do you believe the genealogy in Luke chapter 3 is incorrect? I don't see any name between Adam and God.

  24. #274
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I talk about the text in Genesis
    In response: I have my faith questioned.

    and I let it slide...



    I list verses that support my views on Genesis
    In response: Im told we should not call into question the views of the majority.

    and I let it slide...



    I ask for any questions about what i teach and seek a chance to go over any bible verse dealing with Genesis.
    In response: I see people attack this forum for even allowing this conversation.

    and I let it slide...



    I ask a question about what the bible says at Genesis 1:1?
    In response: Im told that there must be something wrong with the MODs of this website.

    and I let it slide...



    I find that there is none that dare challenge me on the topic of Genesis teachings, and I find that personal attacks are the only thing left to try against me.

    and I let it slide...




    I find that people that claim to have lots of Bible Smarts, cant allow themselves to answer my Bible questions because they know I have a whole pile of things to use once they open the door by first answering my question.

    I speak on this topic a lot and I always quote Dr Walter Martin and other guest hosts of the Bible Answer Man show a lot as well, as they are the people that I listened to and learned from in all that I teach here.

    In response:...Im told that a Walter Martin-named forum should not allow* questions about Genesis in the first place.

    and I let it slide...




    I let a lot of stuff slide in the past.....


    In the past....



    I do so and continue to do so only because I can see past the personal stuff and see the goal Im aiming at...
    Perhaps the ability I have to overlook a lot of stuff is that Im inspired by the text of the Bible that warned the Christian Church that such things would come to we who stand up for truth.

    But I also have learned over the past few years that when people get away with some things one time, they seem encouraged to try to get away with it in the future...and a pattern can develop of bad behavior.
    And this does call on people like myself that try hard not to respond in-kind, thus being able to maintain ourselves always as a "better example" so that regardless of weather some other people learn how to act correctly or not, they yet will have had displayed for them a model of how they should have acted.

  25. #275
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I let a lot of stuff slide in the past.....


    In the past....



    I do so and continue to do so only because I can see past the personal stuff and see the goal Im aiming at...
    Perhaps the ability I have to overlook a lot of stuff is that Im inspired by the text of the Bible that warned the Christian Church that such things would come to we who stand up for truth.

    But I also have learned over the past few years that when people get away with some things one time, they seem encouraged to try to get away with it in the future...and a pattern can develop of bad behavior.
    And this does call on people like myself that try hard not to respond in-kind, thus being able to maintain ourselves always as a "better example" so that regardless of weather some other people learn how to act correctly or not, they yet will have had displayed for them a model of how they should have acted.
    So you are standing up for evolution as the truth, Luke is wrong and you are right?

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