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Thread: Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

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  1. #1
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Default Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

    Creation occurred in six literal, consecutive days. (Gen 1, Ex 20:11) The Hebrew word for day, yom, always means literal, consecutive days when modified by a plural number. Yom was defined as a literal day when it was first used. (Gen 1:4,5) Each creation day had only one “evening and morning.”

    On the fourth creation day, the Sun, Moon, and stars were made. (Gen 1:14–19) If the word “day” in Genesis 1:14 means a long period, what do the words “year” or “night” mean in those verses?

    To survive, plants need the Sun and animals—especially insects. All were created within three literal days of each other. (Gen 1:11–23) Had it taken much longer, plants could not have survived. (Gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31)

    If evolution happened, then death was widespread before man evolved. But if death preceded man and was not a result of Adam’s sin, then sin is not the cause of death—so we do not need a Savior.

    Jesus always spoke the truth; in fact, He said He was the truth (Jn 14:6), and scripture is the truth (Jn 17:17). Certainly, Jesus knew the truth, because He was there in the beginning, and all things came into being through Him. (Jn 1:3) To say that Jesus knew the Bible contained false history, but didn’t want to tell people the truth, belies who Jesus was. He didn’t hide false ideas; He exposed them. He called the Old Testament writers, including Moses, who compiled Genesis 1–11, prophets. (Jn 5:46–47) By definition, prophets, when speaking God’s message, always spoke the truth. False prophets were stoned to death.

    Jesus was not constrained by culture, tradition, science, or concern of misunderstandings (Mt 5:1–12, Jn 6:53). Nor did He avoid subjects that were hard for listeners to understand, such as: end-times (Mt 24), the new birth (Jn 3:1–12), His crucifixion (Mt 12:40, Mk 8:31), or what follows death (Mt: 25:32–46, Jn 14:2). Jesus specifically referred to accounts in each of the first seven chapters of Genesis, something He would not have done if He knew they were not historical events. If we replace Jesus’ words with our ideas and claim they were “His real intent,” we can seemingly justify almost anything.

  2. #2
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Also, if there was any truth to evolution then the prophets, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Apostles or even The Church fathers would have written about it but they didn't.

    It is a modern day Heresy created by unsaved and evil men.

  3. #3
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Also, if there was any truth to evolution then the prophets, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Apostles or even The Church fathers would have written about it .
    says who?

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    4
    says who?


    You just Love Evolution don't you.


    But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and Whoever Loves and Practices A Lie.

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    You just Love Evolution don't you.


    But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and Whoever Loves and Practices A Lie.

    Revelation 22:15

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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Revelation 22:15
    Rev 22:15
    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
    NKJV

    And this has to do with evolution, EXACTLY HOW? Are you trying to claim evolution is what John intended when he wrote it?

    HOW SAD is your eisegesis?

  7. #7
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Rev 22:15
    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
    NKJV

    And this has to do with evolution, EXACTLY HOW? Are you trying to claim evolution is what John intended when he wrote it?

    HOW SAD is your eisegesis?



    Evolution is A Lie. Those who promote it practice The Lie.

    Why do You Insult Other Christians ?
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  8. #8
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Evolution is A Lie. Those who promote it practice The Lie.

    Why do You Insult Other Christians ?
    One of the differences you will see in my posts is that I am able to disagree with people and not insult them while doing so.

    I can openly disagree with a room full of people, (as I did during an 8week ORIGINS cl*** taught by Ken Ham) and yet remain respectful of the people listening to me.

    I dont have to put down people just to show them that something they have been taught in the past was in error.

  9. #9
    alanmolstad
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    If there are no questions then I would like to deal next with the rest of my teachings as listed on post #223.

    I would like to go over each of the listed teachings in more detail

  10. #10
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Also, if there was any truth to evolution then the prophets, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Apostles or even The Church fathers would have written about it but they didn't.

    .
    You got nothing to back this up.

    There is not one single word in the Bible that leads the church to believe that all modern findingsof science must be talked about in the bible before we can believe they are true.

    Every day science learns more and more about this universe.....There is nothing in the Bible that says we have to disbelieve what we are learning just because its not listed already in the bible.

    And thinking that every matter, every truth, every finding of science 'would" have been already written about by men in the past is silly.


    The words found in the Bible are there so that we might believe and have faith...But not every word spoken by any of the men we read about was reciorded.

    The Bible even tells us that not everything Jesus said was recorded for us in the Bible.
    The same is true for each of the prophets
    The same is true for the Apostles
    The same is true for past church leaders in history.

    The things we do get to read that they spoke are the things the Holy Spirit decided were needed....we have no right to sit around now and call into question His judgement.

  11. #11
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    On the fourth creation day, the Sun, Moon, and stars were made..
    are you sure it says the sun and moon were made on the 4th day?

    you better go check the text before you answer...

  12. #12
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    are you sure it says the sun and moon were made on the 4th day?

    you better go check the text before you answer...
    "Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day." Gen 1:16-19

  13. #13
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    "Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day." Gen 1:16-19


    oh I know there was light,,,,and we see that the topic of the 4th day deals with the amount of light, (greater and lesser)...
    But i was just asking if the Bible says that the "sun" was made on the 4th day?


    check the text ....

  14. #14
    alanmolstad
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    so what Im saying is this:

    That the Bible tells us when the sun was created,and its not on the 4thday.

    the one single correct Bible word for all the stars in the night sky, and all the other things in outer space (such a planets,and blackholes, and dark matter, and all the things I dont even know the name for) , all that "space stuff' is correctly called by the one single Bible word of - "heavens"

    The term "Heavens" can be used correctly to talk about all that space stuff.

    and then when does the Bible teach that God made all this "Space stuff" like our sun?...."In the beginning"!!!!!!




    So this means that right at the very startof the creation story we find God busy creating the source for all the light we will be reading about in the Genesis story!

    there is no need to invent a "source-less light"....for the source is already made at Genesis 1:1and its still there inthe sky today!
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-03-2016 at 07:07 PM.

  15. #15
    alanmolstad
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    "So Alan what is it talking about on the 4th day then?"


    Im glad you asked that.

    The answer is, "Exactly what it says its talking about....'light" and the amount of light seen on the earth.

    Some greater, some lesser....

    so the "sun" is not said to be created on the 4th day at all...and that fits with Gen 1:1 when the heavens (including the stars like our sun) were created in the beginning.
    But what are reading about on the 4th day is a changing in the AMOUNTS of light seen...

    Thats why the Bible makes use of the term "Greater" and "Lesser" for they are terms that talk about the AMOUNT of light seen, not their source!!!!!!!!!

    (Did everybody catch that?...Greater and lesser are terms that talk about "amounts" of light)

    Their source is already created on Day 1....but on day 4 we clearly have a change in the AMOUNTS seen.




    Now you can ask me"why ?.......I have lots to say about that too...








    Basically what im teaching here is just looking at the text as it is written, and saying,"Amen"....
    i dont feel the need to add to the text at all.

    If the Bible says that the first things God made in the beginning were the "Heavens" i say, "Amen"...
    I dont need to twist things around so that it has to teach something that it clearly does not say in black and white.

    The same thing is true for the events of the 4th day too!
    The bible teaches us that on the 4th day we see changes on the amount of light seen...
    greater and lesser" are terms that talk about the amount of light.

    I dont need to twist anything else into the 4th day.

    If the Bible tells me that greater and lesser light was seen, i say "Amen"....


    Why cant we just believe the Bible as written?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-03-2016 at 07:26 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    The Fruits of Evolution are:


    * Atheism

    * Social Darwinism

    * Racism

    * Eugenics

    * No Moral Absolutes

  17. #17
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    oh I know there was light,,,,and we see that the topic of the 4th day deals with the amount of light, (greater and lesser)...
    But i was just asking if the Bible says that the "sun" was made on the 4th day?


    check the text ....
    Alan, you better check the text. "Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night"
    Every reputable commentary concludes that these "two" lights are the sun and the moon, where did you get the idea that these "two" lights are not the sun and the moon. Who taught you that? Or is that your own conclusion?

  18. #18
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Alan, you better check the text. "Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night"
    Every reputable commentary concludes that these "two" lights are the sun and the moon, where did you get the idea that these "two" lights are not the sun and the moon. Who taught you that? Or is that your own conclusion?
    no...check to see if the text actually says that the "sun" was made then...

    Check is the text actually says that the "moon' was made then.


    Oh.....and as for the stars, many people believe that the Bible teaches that the stars were made on the 4th day....do you see that in your Bible?

    If you do, then you better check the King James and look for the hints about the words that are added to the Text in that verse by the editors of other bibles.....the King James bible will show you the added words.


    Imjust suggesting you read the Bible, not add any words to the text, and believe what you read and not need to appeal to commentary.


    I mean if the Bible were written so that just to understand it you needed to wait for a commentary to tell you what it says, you are out of luck then if you dont got a handy commentary around I guess......


    Butif the bible were written in such a way as to just read it,stick to the words you see there, and you can believe it as its written, then all people in every place and in every time can learn from the Bible....even if they never have a "commentary" to set them straight on some teaching that might not be in the Bible as it appears, but were just stuff the commentary wanted you to believe 'should" have been in the Bible had they been in charge of making it....




    So......what so wrong with believing the Bible as its written?

    Why cant we believe the writer of the Genesis story used the correct words?

    Why cant 'light" be talking about "light"?

  19. #19
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    no...check to see if the text actually says that the "sun" was made then...

    Check is the text actually says that the "moon' was made then.


    Oh.....and as for the stars, many people believe that the Bible teaches that the stars were made on the 4th day....do you see that in your Bible?

    If you do, then you better check the King James and look for the hints about the words that are added to the Text in that verse by the editors of other bibles.....the King James bible will show you the added words.


    Imjust suggesting you read the Bible, not add any words to the text, and believe what you read and not need to appeal to commentary.


    I mean if the Bible were written so that just to understand it you needed to wait for a commentary to tell you what it says, you are out of luck then if you dont got a handy commentary around I guess......


    Butif the bible were written in such a way as to just read it,stick to the words you see there, and you can believe it as its written, then all people in every place and in every time can learn from the Bible....even if they never have a "commentary" to set them straight on some teaching that might not be in the Bible as it appears, but were just stuff the commentary wanted you to believe 'should" have been in the Bible had they been in charge of making it....




    So......what so wrong with believing the Bible as its written?

    Why cant we believe the writer of the Genesis story used the correct words?

    Why cant 'light" be talking about "light"?



    This is Just One Giant Run On Sentence with No Real Substance.
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  20. #20
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    no...check to see if the text actually says that the "sun" was made then...

    Check is the text actually says that the "moon' was made then.


    Oh.....and as for the stars, many people believe that the Bible teaches that the stars were made on the 4th day....do you see that in your Bible?

    If you do, then you better check the King James and look for the hints about the words that are added to the Text in that verse by the editors of other bibles.....the King James bible will show you the added words.


    Imjust suggesting you read the Bible, not add any words to the text, and believe what you read and not need to appeal to commentary.


    I mean if the Bible were written so that just to understand it you needed to wait for a commentary to tell you what it says, you are out of luck then if you dont got a handy commentary around I guess......


    Butif the bible were written in such a way as to just read it,stick to the words you see there, and you can believe it as its written, then all people in every place and in every time can learn from the Bible....even if they never have a "commentary" to set them straight on some teaching that might not be in the Bible as it appears, but were just stuff the commentary wanted you to believe 'should" have been in the Bible had they been in charge of making it....




    So......what so wrong with believing the Bible as its written?

    Why cant we believe the writer of the Genesis story used the correct words?

    Why cant 'light" be talking about "light"?
    Alan, the KJ says God made "two" great lights and set "them" in the heavens on day four. Really, what more do you need to show that these are the sun and the moon?

  21. #21
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Alan, the KJ says God made "two" great lights and set "them" in the heavens on day four. Really, what more do you need to show that these are the sun and the moon?
    what if its just what it says it is?

    how would that chage your views on what is being taught?

    What if you dont need to replace any words in the text at all?

    what if you believe it as it appears?


    what if the writer had WANTED to talk about the things he wrote down?

    what if the writer did not need you to fix things ?





    In other words.....what if the writer of this story had wanted to talk about the greater and lesser amounts of light that changed on the 4th day?......and so that is why he talks about the greater and lesser amounts of light!!!!!
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-04-2016 at 05:30 PM.

  22. #22
    alanmolstad
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    Just for me, I want you to try to read the text one time and believe it as it appears, regardless if this then agrees with YEC or not.

    this means that when you read that God made all the "Heavens" first at the very start,"In the beginning" you believed it...

  23. #23
    alanmolstad
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    I look forward to your findings...

  24. #24
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    I'm seriousely surprised that you are defending evolution when it is such an anti Christian theory that has done so much to destroy the faith of people's belief in God. Not just in the Christian belief in God but other faiths also.

    Also, it was created by ungodly men specifially to decieve and curupt the world view of people and especially young people in universitys.
    Last edited by jude1:3; 08-05-2016 at 07:47 PM.
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  25. #25
    alanmolstad
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    What I do is quote the bible....ever see me not?

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