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Thread: Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

  1. #51
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Alan your whole view is based on a day not really being a day and instead meaning millions of years.

    It's Heretical Garbage designed to deceive people.
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  2. #52
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    You keep saying that you are sticking to The Bible but the truth is you are not, but instead interjecting your own personal interpretation of days really meaning millions of years and days not really p***ing in the Genesis account.



    Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines.- Hebrew 13:9

    ... we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting - Ephesians 4:14

    Keep your heart with all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life. - Proverbs 4:23
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  3. #53
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    God’s works are not random and He is behind every little detail. There are no events so small that he does not rule for his purposes. “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?” Jesus said, “And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.” Matthew 10:29–30



    and now to address your 2nd paragraph....


    and my answer is simple ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution






    Let me know if you want more information?

  4. #54
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Just come out and say plainly that is what you believe.

    I got like over 7,000 post of this forum, and 99.9% of them are dealing with the topic of Genesis...

    You really think I have left any doubts in anyone mind as to what Im talking about?.....you think I have left any of my points unclear to you or anyone else?




    Is there anything I have posted on that you think is a little foggy?....

    Is there any question about Genesis that you think I skipped over?.....

  5. #55
    alanmolstad
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    at Genesis 1:1, what does the Bible say is the very first thing God created In the beginning?

  6. #56
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Alan your whole view is based on a day not really being a day and instead meaning millions of years.

    It's Heretical Garbage designed to deceive people.
    Its actually a common teaching within the Christian Church....consider-

    John Ankerberg
    Gleason Archer
    John Battle
    Michael Behe
    William Jennings Bryan
    Walter Bradley
    Jack Collins
    Chuck Colson
    Paul Copan
    William Lane Craig
    Norman Geisler
    Robert Godfrey
    Guillermo Gonzales Hank Hannegraff
    Jack Hayford
    Fred Heeren
    Charles Hodge
    Walter Kaiser
    Greg Koukl
    C. S. Lewis
    Paul Little
    Patricia Mondore
    J. P. Moreland
    Robert Newman
    Greg Neyman
    Mark Noll
    Nancy Pearcey Perry Phillips
    William Phillips
    Mike Poole
    Bernard Ramm
    Jay Richards
    Hugh Ross
    Fritz Schaefer
    Francis Schaeffer
    C. I. Scofield
    Chuck Smith Jr.
    David Snoke
    Lee Strobel
    Ken Taylor
    B. B. Warfield



    Now of all the names of people within the church that have openly taught that the "days" of genesis dont have to be just 24 hrs, the name of William Jennings Bryan caught my eye.

    after all, was not William Jennings Bryan the defender of the YEC side during the most well known trial on evolution?...

    You know the famous Scopes Trial?

    Are we to believe that even the one guy most connected in American history with defending the YEC position, actually was in agreement with me on the "Genesis Days" question?


    Is that what Im saying?



    Yes it is...
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-09-2016 at 03:11 AM.

  7. #57
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    John Ankerberg
    Gleason Archer
    John Battle
    Michael Behe
    William Jennings Bryan
    Walter Bradley
    Jack Collins
    Chuck Colson
    Paul Copan
    William Lane Craig
    Norman Geisler
    Robert Godfrey
    Guillermo Gonzales Hank Hannegraff
    Jack Hayford
    Fred Heeren
    Charles Hodge
    Walter Kaiser
    Greg Koukl
    C. S. Lewis
    Paul Little
    Patricia Mondore
    J. P. Moreland
    Robert Newman
    Greg Neyman
    Mark Noll
    Nancy Pearcey Perry Phillips
    William Phillips
    Mike Poole
    Bernard Ramm
    Jay Richards
    Hugh Ross
    Fritz Schaefer
    Francis Schaeffer
    C. I. Scofield
    Chuck Smith Jr.
    David Snoke
    Lee Strobel
    Ken Taylor
    B. B. Warfield
    But you keep glossing over us.

    With all those names, you shouldn't have any problem with referencing the bible.

    Why is it when we reference the bible, you go mute?

  8. #58
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    at Genesis 1:1, what does the Bible say is the very first thing God created In the beginning?
    >>>mute you say?

    Im sure you want to prove you are not the one that is mute by answering this bible question.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-09-2016 at 04:18 AM.

  9. #59
    alanmolstad
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    In 1925, at the famous Scopes Trial1 in Dayton, Tennessee, William Jennings Bryan was cross-examined - part of the transcript follows:]

    Clarence Darrow (the ACLU lawyer) [D]: ‘Mr Bryan, could you tell me how old the Earth is?’

    Bryan [B]: ‘No, sir, I couldn’t.’

    [D]: ‘Could you come anywhere near it?’

    [B]: ‘I wouldn’t attempt to. I could possibly come as near as the scientists do, but I had rather be more accurate before I give a guess.’

    [D]: ‘Does the statement, “The morning and the evening were the first day,” and “The morning and the evening were the second day,” mean anything to you?’

    [B]: ‘I do not think it necessarily means a twenty-four-hour day.’

    [D]: ‘You do not?’

    [B]: ‘No.’

    [D]: 'Then, when the Bible said, for instance, "and God called the firmament heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day," that does not necessarily mean twenty-four-hours?’

    [B]: ‘I do not think it necessarily does.’ ‘I think it would be just as easy for the kind of God we believe in to make the Earth in six days as in six years or in six million years or in 600 million years. I do not think it important whether we believe one or the other.’

    [D]: ‘And they had the evening and the morning before that time for three days or three periods. All right, that settles it. Now, if you call those periods, they may have been a very long time.’

    [B]: ‘They might have been.’

    [D]: ‘The creation might have been going on for a very long time?’

    [B]: ‘It might have continued for millions of years.’

  10. #60
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    If anyone reading this have been following along and have been reading my posts, you have come to be familiar with the idea that "Alan does not teach nor defend Evolution"

    Over and over I have to keep telling people this because they always want to drag me into a debate over evolution because,thats all the YEC books got within them, Just a bunch of Anti-evolution arguments.


    And on this topic I have had to remind people a few times now that I simply dont defend nor teach evolution....Im not a science teacher and so if they got a question about science they better go find someone qualified to answer it, and that is not me!


    So it should be clear I will not get sucked into defending evolution in any way, shape,or form.
    I teach what the Bible says, PERIOD.



    and yet in the post I have a copy of within this post you once again see an attack made against evolution????

    Once again there is an attempt made to get me to debate the merits of evolution.....LOL... ....and once again it fails...



    I do no teach nor defend evolution....



    (Im not sure how else I can say this before it starts to sink in?)
    Hello Alan,

    You say you do not teach or defend the theory of evolution and I think you feel you are being sincere with that statement. But those of us who are discussing this topic with you would just like a clear answer so we can continue the discussion or bring it to a conclusion. How else can you say it before it starts to sink in? Simply answer this question, do you believe that men evolved from apes?

    My answer would be no. Would you say yes or no, there is no need to expound, just yes or no.

  11. #61
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hello Alan,

    You say you do not teach or defend the theory of evolution and I think you feel you are being sincere with that statement. But those of us who are discussing this topic with you would just like a clear answer so we can continue the discussion or bring it to a conclusion. How else can you say it before it starts to sink in? Simply answer this question, do you believe that men evolved from apes?

    My answer would be no. Would you say yes or no, there is no need to expound, just yes or no.
    Let me get this straight..

    I tell you over and over that I dont teach nor defend evolution...I write a very long and I think very clear post on why, (see post number # 44, this topic) and I tell people over and over that I only deal and center my posts of the bible,,,,,,and your response is to yet ask me a question about evolution?


    is that what I see here?

    That regardless of what i say and how I say it, you wont ask me a bible question or ask about how to look at a Genesis verse?



    Here is my yes or no answer-......"See post # 44"

  12. #62
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Let me get this straight..

    I tell you over and over that I dont teach nor defend evolution...I write a very long and I think very clear post on why, (see post number # 44, this topic) and I tell people over and over that I only deal and center my posts of the bible,,,,,,and your response is to yet ask me a question about evolution?


    is that what I see here?

    That regardless of what i say and how I say it, you wont ask me a bible question or ask about how to look at a Genesis verse?



    Here is my yes or no answer-......"See post # 44"
    See Alan, that is the problem we all have with this discussion. You continually say that the theory of evolution walks hand in hand with the Creation account and yet you are intentionally vague when asked a direct question. We never know if you are serious or if for some reason you are ****ing us around. It stands to reason that if you believe that evolution and Creation walk hand in hand, then you must believe that men evolved from apes, there can be no other conclusion for us to reach.
    Perhaps I can be more specific, do you believe that God caused men to evolve from apes?

  13. #63
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    It's kind of frustrating when you ask for a clear, straight forward and short answer and instead get a wall of text or a vague lawyer type of double speak.
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  14. #64
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    See Alan, that is the problem we all have with this discussion. You continually say that the theory of evolution walks hand in hand with the Creation account and yet you are intentionally vague when asked a direct question. We never know if you are serious or if for some reason you are ****ing us around. It stands to reason that if you believe that evolution and Creation walk hand in hand, then you must believe that men evolved from apes, there can be no other conclusion for us to reach.
    Perhaps I can be more specific, do you believe that God caused men to evolve from apes?
    again, that is an evolution question....see post# 44 for your answer

  15. #65
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Refusal to answer clearly and simply should be seen as an admittence of loss to the debate.

    Also, refusal to give clear and plain summeries of your beliefs should be an indication of purposful deception on your part.



    Alan should state his beliefs like this :

    * I believe the creation week of Genesis hasn't fully past yet and that we are still in it.
    * I believe that a day doesn't really mean a day, but that it really means millions of years.

    This is essentially what he believes but covers it up with walls of text and hermenutic gymnastics. In fact this is what all those guys who push theistic evolution do. It's Heretical Garbage and they know it.
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  16. #66
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Refusal to answer clearly and simply should be seen as an admittance of loss to the debate.

    ......
    At Genesis 1:1 what does the Bible say is the first thing God created In the Beginning?

  17. #67
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    ..... if you believe that evolution and Creation walk hand in hand, then you must believe.......
    What I believe is what I can prove in the Bible.


    And this is what I can show:

    I can show that at Genesis 1:1 the Bible says that God created the "Heavens" first in the beginning.

    I can show that this term "Heavens" has several correct meanings in the Bible at other spots in the text, but among these correct meanings is the idea that Heavens means the "whole collections of stars" in the night sky.....all of them!!

    I can show that God creates the "source" then for all the later "lights" talked about in the whole creation story.

    I can show that if you stick close to what the Text says you dont need to rely of some type of magic "source-less light" just to understand whats going on in the story.

    I can show the the Bible does not actually say the "sun"was created on the 4th day.

    I can show that the Bible does not actually say that the "moon" was created on the 4th day.

    I can show that the words that try to say that on the 4th day that God "also made" the stars, was added to the Text,and that in the King James you can see this proved for yourself ,(so you dont have to just take my word on it)


    I can show that the first 6 days in Genesis have very clear endings.

    I can show that there is no ending listed forthe7th day in Genesis.

    I can show that there is no ending to the 7th day in all of the Old testament.

    I can show that there is no ending to the 7th day in all of the rest of the whole Bible !

    I can show where in the Bible it tells us why the Earth was in "darkness" at the start of the Genesis story.

    I can show that the bible tells us that the reason for the Genesis "Darkness" was due to very thick clouds.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-10-2016 at 03:46 AM.

  18. #68
    alanmolstad
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    all of the above is what I can "show" you in written in the Txt.


    So Im not saying, "Oh this is just some things I believe" rather this is just a short list of the things I can show you are actually written in black and white, and that you cant hide from.




    Im saying "This is what the Bible says in black and white"







    Its also a list that stands totally against what you guys are reading on the YEC websites.....
    But I also know its a list that you cant attack because you know full well I would not have posted it had i not a verse ready to go that you can read for yourself and see how what i say the Bible says, IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!!!!!!!

  19. #69
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    What I believe is what I can prove in the Bible.


    And this is what I can show:

    I can show that at Genesis 1:1 the Bible says that God created the "Heavens" first in the beginning.

    I can show that this term "Heavens" has several correct meanings in the Bible at other spots in the text, but among these correct meanings is the idea that Heavens means the "whole collections of stars" in the night sky.....all of them!!

    I can show that God creates the "source" then for all the later "lights" talked about in the whole creation story.

    I can show that if you stick close to what the Text says you dont need to rely of some type of magic "source-less light" just to understand whats going on in the story.

    I can show the the Bible does not actually say the "sun"was created on the 4th day.

    I can show that the Bible does not actually say that the "moon" was created on the 4th day.

    I can show that the words that try to say that on the 4th day that God "also made" the stars, was added to the Text,and that in the King James you can see this proved for yourself ,(so you dont have to just take my word on it)


    I can show that the first 6 days in Genesis have very clear endings.

    I can show that there is no ending listed forthe7th day in Genesis.

    I can show that there is no ending to the 7th day in all of the Old testament.

    I can show that there is no ending to the 7th day in all of the rest of the whole Bible !

    I can show where in the Bible it tells us why the Earth was in "darkness" at the start of the Genesis story.

    I can show that the bible tells us that the reason for the Genesis "Darkness" was due to very thick clouds.
    Take another look at who else said “I can show”.

    While you’re so busy at pointing us back to your formula in Genesis, at the very expense of setting aside other scriptures. Here, yet another warning from Jesus himself at letting some scriptures slip into obscurity while busy propping up some other thing.

    At that point, you and all who are behind this doctrine are racing towards to make it amongst you, your own tradition. Notice here in the book of Mark, the startling tradition-builders parallel to Alan’s Genesis teaching and what it throws the un-suspecting reader into.

    Jesus himself warns everyone of reasoning on our own in the word of God when He says “many things” such as this.

    “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

    He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. “For Moses said, ‘HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER’; and, ‘HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH’; but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
    (Mark 7:8-13)

    As He point out, “many things” (such as evolution) fall under the simplicity of “setting aside” (such as the other scriptures we have told you about).
    .

  20. #70
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    what i believe is what i can prove in the bible.
    i think that is a very good stance to take, if you really mean it, because if you are serious then you cannot
    believe that the theory of evolution is true. That's a great place to start
    .



    I can show the the bible does not actually say the "sun"was created on the 4th day.

    I can show that the bible does not actually say that the "moon" was created on the 4th day.
    Ok if you want to be literal, the word "sun" does not appear until Genesis chapter 15 and the word "moon" does not appear until chapter 37. So if those words are not specifically used how can you say when they were created?

    I can show that the words that try to say that on the 4th day that god "also made" the stars, was added to the text,and that in the king james you can see this proved for yourself ,(so you dont have to just take my word on it)
    Here is the verse from the King James, I don't see your point.
    "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also"
    .

    You know Alan, I don't belittle your belief regarding the age of the earth or whether or not the 7th day has ended, you have a perfect
    right to your opinion on those matters as we all do. But I feel your stance on evolution, your belief that it walks hand in hand with the
    bible is what should be discussed.

  21. #71
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    I do have a request here, just do me this little favor won’t you, if you see me getting drawn down the drain of error, do attempt to give me notice just as the scripture says and no more so that I will not be a distraction. a frustration, a deception to the body of Christ,

    “Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.” (***us 3:10,11)

  22. #72
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    You know Alan, I don't belittle your belief regarding the age of the earth....
    Im going to take a moment tonight and write a few things to you....

    I hope to post a bunch of comments for you to read, and I will try to keep my posts short for a change....

  23. #73
    alanmolstad
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    First off....

    I posted a nice long list of the things I can "show" you are found in the Bible that support my views.

    If you were truly serious about proving I am in error, then my list is the place for you to start.

    The things on my list are the very foundation of what Im teaching here.

    If you can undercut my list/foundation, all my other teachings will fall down.


    So why do you not seem to want to go over any of the points I rais on my list?....


    My list is the only things I care about deeply, so why dont you bother to ask me anything at all about them?

    Why dont you seem to want to challenge me about something on my list?

  24. #74
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    To give you a little example of what I am talking about when I say Theistic Evolutionists Talk in Circles and never give a simple straight forward, clear and short answer when asked about what they believe and a summary of what they believe I'll post this video :








    * Watch how annoying it is and how long it takes for The Theistic Evolutionists to give an answer. They are doing it on purpose and they have a deceitful agenda. You can see it on their faces.
    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  25. #75
    alanmolstad
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    next.....


    Im going to list here now one of the core ideas that support my views.
    If you want to truly help me see the "real truth" then all Im asking you to do is prove with the bible that what I say the Bible says in black and white is not actually what the Bible says in black and white...

    on a side note:
    What you are about to see true about me is that I dont try to force the Bible to mean things.
    What I do is I look to first what does the bible really say?...then I look at all the other verses tooand learn what is literally says there.

    I then have a better chance to get what the verse "means" when I clearly understand what it simply says in black and white first.
    I dont post a verse and then quickly have to add, "But while it says one thing , it must mean something else"

    I like to first understand what it says....and get simple agreement on that first ,before we go to what it means.

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