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Thread: Evolution does not stand up to biblical scrutiny

  1. #201
    alanmolstad
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    Now that I have talked a bit about the "light" of the genesis story, I thought next I might deal with the topic of the "point of view' of the genesis story.

    Did you know that the whole creation story is written from one key point of view?

    I will be talking about this "Genesis POV" in my next post.....stay tuned!

  2. #202
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Oooooooh, so that last post bothered you did it? I'll take that as a complement. I appreciate that!! For it wasn’t a light post, but worth considering greatly.

    Once more, ,

    Are you insinuating we p***-over God’s will?

    Let the scriptures speak for themselves,

    "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.” (Matt 7:21)

    "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother." (Matt 12:50)

    Who would be so foolish to ***ume the ***le of a scriptural pervert, and attempt to lead people astray, saying, whoever can’t convince themselves to rise against God’s will is a “chicken”?

    Wrong, we are “brothers”, and wish you would rise out of this godless stupor.

  3. #203
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I will be talking about this "Genesis POV" in my next post.....stay tuned!


    Many times we find that people have the wrong mental point of view when they read the story of Genesis.
    They tend to view the story with the point of view of that of an astronaut looking down at the earth from high orbit.....this is incorrect.

    many times people look at the Text and try to understand what it being talked about from the view point of watching things happen out in deep space....this also is incorrect.


    The correct Point of view for the bible student as he reads the Genesis story is to have an "earthly"point of view.

    The writer of the Genesis story wants us to take the point of view of someone who is on the earth watching the events happen in the story.

    We find this taught in the story at Genesis 1 verse 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    With the introduction in the story of the "Spirit of God"we find what is to be our Point of view as we read the rest of the story.

    The Point of view of this Spirit of God is one where he is "hovering"just over the surface of the waters.


    Why does it say our Point of view is to be "hovering"....the answer is that the Spirit of God is not said to be "swimming"...LOL


    So this now is to be our point of view as we read the creation story, we are to take the mind-set of someone who is just "hovering"over the water.

    From this mental image we carry with us as we read the story we now understand how the writer wants us to see how things are going on.

    For we are not therefore an astronaut looking down at the earth, but rather we are just hovering over the surface of the water, looking up at the sky...down at the water,and over to the land.

    This also helps us understand when the writer talks about "lights"in the sky , both on the first Day as well as on the events talked about happening on the 4th day.

    For we now can understand that these events dealing with the change in the "lights" are told to us from the point of view of someone hovering on the surface of the water looking up at the sky.
    Thats why the light is said to be "greater" and "lessor"on the 4th day, for they are terms that talk about the "AMOUNT" of light we are able to see from our point of view of looking up at the sky as we hover over the water.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-25-2016 at 04:04 AM.

  4. #204
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  5. #205
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Thanks Jude1:3, as you said in post #196, the thread now suffers from,

    “pushing the demonic heretical lie of evolution.”
    This is what happens when Christian moderators are MIA. The whole site suffers. They want to try to mix the reputation of Christianity, and a spiritually bankrupt condition. All this tells us is the site is agenda driven, complicit in proselytizing into the lie as many souls as possible. But it won’t work, the Spirit of God can still lead the sheep to safety. Since WMF does not invest in common search results, those growing numbers you see are not friendly inquiries, with the current state of control, they in all likelihood may even be bogus representative visits.

    The reason why those who wish this abuse upon the young doesn’t matter in my mind, that is on how far that can go; just as they imprisoned the Apostle, said in response, “the word of God is not bound”. So it is here, they cannot remove truth. The heart of the beast wishes anguish on God’s people for having the audacity to align with the “will of God”. And the spirit of the dreamer can try to overcome truth with a mul***ude of a dreamer’s speech, but, ,

    “When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise.” (Proverbs 10:19)

    But we know that one who sets out to exert effort, ,

    “He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.” (I Cor 1:31)

    God bless every last child of God who knows a deceiver when he sees one, caught red-handed denying the will of God, and turning the Holy word of God into the mythological "story" (II Timothy 4:4).

  6. #206
    alanmolstad
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    So now that we have went over separately each of the items talked about in the opening of the Genesis story,lets now look at how this all fits together!

    First here is the start of the story with the explanations we have learned so far.



    " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"


    "In the beginning" = Before all things, before God created anything else. This is talking about the very moment of the start of Creation....the Big bang of science.

    "God created " = God is alone , there is no other cause for the universe.He and he alone is the creator....his work here is creation"

    "the Heavens" = This word we have learned is talking about all the stars like our own sun.Listed first means that the sun is now created in the story. "Heavens"is the correct word to talk about not only the stars like our own sun, but all the other worlds and gas giants,and Black holes, and all the clouds of dust and all the things we dont even have names for yet! "Heavens" by the way is the ONLY word the writer of the genesis story could have used to talk about all such things out there in the darkness of the night sky.


    "and the Earth" = This shows us that we are talking about the creation of the stars because they are listed in contrast here with the "Earth"
    The listing here of "the Earth"now tells us that this story will be centered on the "Earth's" story .
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-26-2016 at 05:05 AM.

  7. #207
    alanmolstad
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    "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

    "And the earth was" = The story of the earth's creation continues.

    The use of the Hebrew word of "was" is interesting as it is a word that means "was/became"in the Hebrew....
    So the correct way to understand this sentence is to say that the "earth was/became..."

    It sorta like starting a story with the words, "I was leading the race at that point..." as the use of the word "was" in that sentence has this same context of being "was/became" as the context tells you that I did not start out the race with a lead, but that I "became" in first place by the time the story opens.


    "without form" = This wording is talking about not being able to see the form of the earth right now.
    The earth is still very real at this point.
    Its a solid planet.
    But the earth's form is not seen.
    This is talking about the same type of thing we might experience if we were near a road on a foggy night and heard a truck approaching. We would know that the truck is real, we would know that its getting closer, but due to the foggy-darkness we cant see its form yet.


    and void = the word "void" is simply talking about a world without any people yet.

    and darkness From *** 38 we saw that the only reason for this darkness was due to the very thick clouds that God had wrapped the early earth under.

    was upon the face of the deep = The words "the deep" can only be talking about a great body of water like a sea....

    And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters= This gives the reader the correct point of view to take in their minds as they read of the events talked about. We are to take the mental POV of someone "hovering"just over the dark seas.

  8. #208
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    [FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4]Thanks Jude1:3, as you said in post #196, the thread now suffers from,



    This is what happens when Christian moderators are MIA. The whole site suffers.
    I can testify to you that the "moderators" are not "MIA"...LOL

    What i think is the real situation is this:
    This Walter Martin message forum invites all types of people to come here and post their comments.
    There are no rules as to the type of religion a guest might support.
    The only rules that are set up for the guests to follow are simply to help keep order and allow this to be a friendly place to spend time.


    and....

    If you spend any time here reading the newer updated posts you will see that this site is visited by many,many Mormons.

    Every day there is a posting by a Mormon in support of Mormon teachings.

    The Mormons who visit this site are seen openly posting comments that totally support Mormonism and undercut the traditional christian faith.



    and yet....

    And yet I dont see anyone asking the moderators to step in an ban all the Mormons and clear their posts just because some Christians disagree with them!

    I notice that people dont go on and on about a moderator being "MIA" just because some Mormon guest claims that God the father has a human body.

    And.....I think I know why.

    I think the reason is that many Christians believe the Mormons are so ****py at sharing their views, and so easy to dismiss with the bible, that they dont feel the need to try to have a Mormon's post cleared.

    Many Christian people dont feel threatened by the Mormons.

    many Christians feel very confidant when they deal with a Mormon because they believe they can win that debate.

    They believe God and the bible are on their side.



    But when I speak some Christians dont seem to have that same type of confidence!

    Notice when Alan posts about Genesis these same Christians suddenly have a cow?
    I think I know why that is too...

    I think it's because while such Christians believe the Mormons are **** as far as knowing how to share their faith, they yet hate the fact that Alan actually knows how to share his teachings very effectively.

    Such Christians dont dare take me on with their Bible , because they can see clearly that I know the Bible better than they do,and have shown this over and over.

    Thus, their only option is to try to get/force me to stop teaching .

    It's the only path they see to getting out of this situation.
    Getting into a debate with me has only shown that the YEC Christians cant argue their point as strongly as I can support mine.


    Thats the real reason such weak Christians never ask me questions about Genesis.

    All they can do rather is just go off on the old "We should not even talk about this topic" thingy...

    They dont think they can defend their views as strongly as I can defend mine, so it seems to me they always want to try to get the topic cleared.



    Well.......

    Topics come and go over time...
    Im sure this topic will drop off the radar soon enough , and will be replaced by one that looks a lot like it....

    But what Im saying, and what im teaching, and what I have shown true in the Bible, will remain .
    And regardless of the YEC teachers's views, I will continue to ask people to put away their false ideas about what YEC teachers and websites all say Genesis is about, and instead open their Bible for themselves and just read!!!!!!


    That is all I have ever done!!!

    I ask people "What does the Bible say?"
    I point out what the text says.... ..
    I ask people what words appear in the text?

    I dont have to tell anyone what to think it means.

    All I do is show people what the text actually says,and that is enough to convince them that YEC is a lie.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 09-01-2016 at 04:24 AM.

  9. #209
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    [FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4]Thanks Jude1:3, as you said in post #196, the thread now suffers from,



    This is what happens when Christian moderators are MIA. The whole site suffers.
    I can testify to you that the "moderators" are not "MIA"...LOL

    What i think is the real situation is this:
    This Walter Martin message forum invites all types of people to come here and post their comments.
    There are no rules as to the type of religion a guest might support.
    The only rules that are set up for the guests to follow are simply to help keep order and allow this to be a friendly place to spend time.


    and....

    If you spend any time here reading the newer updated posts you will see that this site is visited by many,many Mormons.

    Every day there is a posting by a Mormon in support of Mormon teachings.

    The Mormons who visit this site are seen openly posting comments that totally support Mormonism and undercut the traditional christian faith.



    and yet....

    And yet I dont see anyone asking the moderators to step in an ban all the Mormons and clear their posts just because some Christians disagree with them!

    I notice that people dont go on and on about a moderator being "MIA" just because some Mormon guest claims that God the father has a human body.

    And.....I think I know why.

    I think the reason is that many Christians believe the Mormons are so ****py at sharing their views, and so easy to dismiss with the bible, that they dont feel the need to try to have a Mormon's post cleared.

    Many Christian people dont feel threatened by the Mormons.

    many Christians feel very confidant when they deal with a Mormon because they believe they can win that debate.

    They believe God and the bible are on their side.



    But when I speak some Christians dont seem to have that same type of confidence!

    Notice when Alan posts about Genesis these same Christians suddenly have a cow?
    I think I know why that is too...

    I think it's because while such Christians believe the Mormons are **** as far as knowing how to share their faith, they yet hate the fact that Alan actually knows how to share his teachings very effectively.

    Such Christians dont dare take me on with their Bible , because they can see clearly that I know the Bible better than they do,and have shown this over and over.

    Thus, their only option is to try to get/force me to stop teaching .

    It's the only path they see to getting out of this situation.
    Getting into a debate with me has only shown that the YEC Christians cant argue their point as strongly as I can support mine.


    Thats the real reason such weak Christians never ask me questions about Genesis.

    All they can do rather is just go off on the old "We should not even talk about this topic" thingy...

    They dont think they can defend their views as strongly as I can defend mine, so it seems to me they always want to try to get the topic cleared.



    Well.......

    Topics come and go over time...
    Im sure this topic will drop off the radar soon enough , and will be replaced by one that looks a lot like it....

    But what Im saying, and what im teaching, and what I have shown true in the Bible, will remain .
    And regardless of the YEC teachers's views, I will continue to ask people to put away their false ideas about what YEC teachers and websites all say Genesis is about, and instead open their Bible for themselves and just read!!!!!!


    That is all I have ever done!!!

    I ask people "What does the Bible say?"
    I point out what the text says.... ..
    I ask people what words appear in the text?

    I dont have to tell anyone what to think it means.

    All I do is show people what the text actually says,and that is enough to convince them that YEC is a lie.

  10. #210
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Alan,

    You continually and I believe purposely miss the point of these discussions. It is not really about the
    age of the earth, whether it is six thousand or six billion years old, it is about evolution. It is about
    the fact that you support the idea that man was not created as the bible clearly states but that man
    evolved from lower forms of life. You continually talk about what "you teach", are you a qualified teacher?
    Have you a degree, have you gone to a seminary, do you have training in theology or in the field of
    Biblical hermeneutics? There might be some people who follow these discussions and like what you say,
    you are leading people like that astray. You have no proof of evolution just a pitiful theory, yet you
    lead people to believe that it walks "hand in hand" with God's Holy word. We are all en***led to our
    opinions but we also have a duty to warn people against false teachers and also to warn those who
    are doing the false teaching.

  11. #211
    alanmolstad
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    I dont teach evolution...

    What do I quote to support my views?.....the Bible.

    When I talk about how God created life on the earth,what book to I quote?.....the bible.

    When I tell people to open a book to read for themselves what it says god did, what book am I referring to?....the Bible.


    When I say that God's word supports my views, wherein that word found?...in the bible.



    As foryour question referring to my ability to teach the bible to students?....if you want to prove me wrong then just take anything I have said and show me in the Bible that "It does not say that in the bible"!!!



    But as you cant do that because I always quote the bible correctly, then the best you can do i guess is what?......paint me as a unbeliever?....perhaps try to drag me into a debate over evolution again?




    good luck with that....

  12. #212
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I dont teach evolution...

    What do I quote to support my views?.....the Bible.

    When I talk about how God created life on the earth,what book to I quote?.....the bible.

    When I tell people to open a book to read for themselves what it says god did, what book am I referring to?....the Bible.


    When I say that God's word supports my views, wherein that word found?...in the bible.



    As foryour question referring to my ability to teach the bible to students?....if you want to prove me wrong then just take anything I have said and show me in the Bible that "It does not say that in the bible"!!!



    But as you cant do that because I always quote the bible correctly, then the best you can do i guess is what?......paint me as a unbeliever?....perhaps try to drag me into a debate over evolution again?




    good luck with that....

    All right Alan, for what seems like the 100th time, open the Bible and show us where evolution (a theory) walks
    "hand in hand" (your own words) with the bible. Quote the bible correctly anywhere where it even hints that man evolved from
    lower life forms. Don't change the subject and talk about light or dust, show us how evolution walks hand in hand with the
    truth of the Bible. And by the way, I don't think you are an unbeliever I just think you are blinded by science.

  13. #213
    alanmolstad
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    Now some may ask..."How can Evolution be said to agree in any way with Genesis?"

    Here is my answer- first...what is the common understanding we can both agree on about what Evolution teaches?

    I think we can understand without disagreement that evolution teaches that life as we know it now can be traced back to earlier forms...

    correct?

    You agree with that?

    Im not asking you to agree with evolution, just agree with me as to what it teaches us...


    so as we go back in time according to evolution we will be tracing life back to early and earlier forms of life...
    This continues until you get to the final source of all life on this world, that being this earth itself.



    this actually is one of the most fun things about evolution that i like the most...the fact that according to evolution,Life is from this earth...
    What this means is that God's creation is a creation of life....and this leads me to the hope that life is not just a natural result of this one earth,,but that life is found on many such worlds.

    In fact,I hope that the stars we see in the night say are not just pin-points of glowing gas, but actually God has planted a "garden"in the night sky....
    and that life has evolved not just in a few spots, but darn near everywhere!

    So that more or less is what evolution means to me...

    Its a natural force...

    its like the rain or the sun's light...

    its a thing God has created to support life,for God is a God of the living not the dead.


    Now,,,,back to my answer to you...

    Now that we have decided that according to the teachings of evolution all life is a part of this earth itself, and that the final source for life is this very same earth...lets compare this tothe source of life as taught in the Bible!!!!!!




    So where are humans from according to the bible?

    the answer is found at Genesis 3:19
    "By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;


    so here we see that the source of human life is said to be"the ground"
    That is where we are "taken" from.

    So according to Genesis humans are from the earth...and as we already saw that according to evolution humans are also from this earth itself.



    Thus, although genesis does not actually "teach"evolution, it yet is in full agreement as to this important point as to the "source"of all life on this earth.


    So we can say that the two works say very different things in very different ways,let are able to join hands when they get the the very same starting point of all life on this good earth!

  14. #214
    alanmolstad
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    so as we have decided, Evolution is well known to teach that life is a natural part of this earth,,and that all life, both animal and human, have as their final source of this earth...that the very building blocks of the very earliest form of life are of this earth itself.

    and in the post above we learned that humans are also from this earth,, and that the ground of this earth is our source of life...

    We now should look at what the bible says is the animals source?...where are all the animals from?


    Genesis 2:19-
    "So out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air..."

    thus once again we confirm the agreement with evolution as to the final source of life for all the animals..

    This also means that just as in evolution we learn that animals and humans share the very same source, so too this is the teaching of the Bible....Humans and all the animals share a common source.

  15. #215
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  16. #216
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    All right Alan, for what seems like the 100th time, open the Bible and show us where evolution (a theory) walks
    "hand in hand" (your own words) with the bible. Quote the bible correctly anywhere where it even hints that man evolved from
    lower life forms. Don't change the subject and talk about light or dust, show us how evolution walks hand in hand with the
    truth of the Bible. And by the way, I don't think you are an unbeliever I just think you are blinded by science.


    Surely Alan will reply directly to your post. Let's just keep waiting :

    The Fruits of Macroevolution are: Atheism, Social Darwinism, Racism, Eugenics and No Moral Absolutes.

  17. #217
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Surely Alan will reply directly to your post. Let's just keep waiting :

    see post #213 and #214 above for my response.

    if there is any part of my response you want to talk about, just let me know.

    Right now I think it answers the question I was asked.

  18. #218
    alanmolstad
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    MichaellS seems to have dropped out of this?

  19. #219
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    MichaellS seems to have dropped out of this?
    Hello Alan, everyone!

    Oh there has been a falling away alright. Anytime you want to drag up one of those posts that Jude 1:3, Disciple or I went down the trail of travail for you over, yet dealt us stern refusal, just pick out anyone of them and anyone of us would be happy to correspond as though it were yesterday.

    The choice is yours, stay with the old status quo, or choose life.

    “, , choose for yourselves today whom you will serve, ,” (Joshua 24:15)

    "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, ,” (Deuteronomy 30:19)

  20. #220
    alanmolstad
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    If I ever teach anything you don't think is written in the bible just ask me to provide a quote

  21. #221
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Yes, I would like you to show me in the Bible the justification for refusal of communication, such a this last post. We post - you intercept - and supply a foreign, totally unrelated entry.

    Show or quote for me the justification for refusal of communication??

    That would be most interesting.

    But is Jude1:3 right?

    Will you again respond with more rhetorical drivel?

    And that is what this thread will always be according to Alan, nonsense, because you don't communicate.

    See ya around!

  22. #222
    alanmolstad
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    If I have taught anything about what a genesis says that you think is not found in the text just ask me where the verse is and I will show you.

    Also if there is any of my teachings you don't think are supported by the genesis text just ask and I will quote you the verse.

  23. #223
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Also if there is any of my teachings you don't think are supported by the genesis text just ask and I will quote you the verse.
    Now let me take a moment to talk about what I teach the Text in the Bible supports.

    I teach that the first thing the Bible lists that god created was the stars and all the other stuff out there in space, INCLUDING our own sun.

    i teach that the Bible supports the idea that the word "day" has many different meanings depending on the context of how the word is used.
    It can be talking about a limited amount of time, or a very unlimited amount of time...and the tricky part of that is that sometimes it cane be pointing to both understandings at the same time.

    I teach that human are a part of this earth that has come to life.

    I teach that humans share a common starting point with all other animals like the great apes,,,and that starting point is listed in the bible as being this earth itself.

    I teach that the bible has very clear endings to 6 of the 7 days of the creation week....but that there is no ending listed for the 7th day.

    I teach that there is no listed ending to the 7th day at any point that matches what is written about the other 6 days...not in the story of Genesis, not in the whole book of Genesis, notin the whole Old testament, nor at any point in the whole Bible!

    I teach that the earth was created as a dead and DRY world.

    I teach that the reason the earth is said to be in darkness was because God wrapped the early earth in a thick wrapping of dark clouds.

    I teach that the clouds are from the mist that came later from underground.

    I teach that this mist was able to cover the whole surface of the earth with water, and that this is where the water came from that is talked about in Genesis 1 as "the deep".

    I teach that the whole story of Genesis and the creation is told from the point of view of someone just hovering over the surface of the waters.

    I teach that the sun is created on the first day.

    I teach that the "light" talked about in Genesis is, both the light talked about on Day 1,,,and the lights talked about on the 4th day, are all the same light, and that it has a single source the sun, that was created on the first day.

    I teach that the 'lights' talked about on the 4thday are only the description of the "Amounts" of light seen from the perspective of someone hovering over the surface of the seas.

    I teach that the Bible does not actually say that the stars were 'made"on the 4th day, but that this is an addition to the text of the Bible that was inserted later to agree with young earth creationism....

    I teach that if you remove the un-needed and added wording to the story of the 4th day and read it as the writer intended,then all you see fits nicely with the story of what the "lesser light" rules over (ie the night and the stars)

  24. #224
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Now let me take a moment to talk about what I teach the Text in the Bible supports.

    I teach that the first thing the Bible lists that god created was the stars and all the other stuff out there in space, INCLUDING our own sun.

    i teach that the Bible supports the idea that the word "day" has many different meanings depending on the context of how the word is used.
    It can be talking about a limited amount of time, or a very unlimited amount of time...and the tricky part of that is that sometimes it cane be pointing to both understandings at the same time.

    I teach that human are a part of this earth that has come to life.

    I teach that humans share a common starting point with all other animals like the great apes,,,and that starting point is listed in the bible as being this earth itself.

    I teach that the bible has very clear endings to 6 of the 7 days of the creation week....but that there is no ending listed for the 7th day.

    I teach that there is no listed ending to the 7th day at any point that matches what is written about the other 6 days...not in the story of Genesis, not in the whole book of Genesis, notin the whole Old testament, nor at any point in the whole Bible!

    I teach that the earth was created as a dead and DRY world.

    I teach that the reason the earth is said to be in darkness was because God wrapped the early earth in a thick wrapping of dark clouds.

    I teach that the clouds are from the mist that came later from underground.

    I teach that this mist was able to cover the whole surface of the earth with water, and that this is where the water came from that is talked about in Genesis 1 as "the deep".

    I teach that the whole story of Genesis and the creation is told from the point of view of someone just hovering over the surface of the waters.

    I teach that the sun is created on the first day.

    I teach that the "light" talked about in Genesis is, both the light talked about on Day 1,,,and the lights talked about on the 4th day, are all the same light, and that it has a single source the sun, that was created on the first day.

    I teach that the 'lights' talked about on the 4thday are only the description of the "Amounts" of light seen from the perspective of someone hovering over the surface of the seas.

    I teach that the Bible does not actually say that the stars were 'made"on the 4th day, but that this is an addition to the text of the Bible that was inserted later to agree with young earth creationism....

    I teach that if you remove the un-needed and added wording to the story of the 4th day and read it as the writer intended,then all you see fits nicely with the story of what the "lesser light" rules over (ie the night and the stars)

    Alan, who are you teaching? No one agrees with you.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Revelation 22:15
    Rev 22:15
    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
    NKJV

    And this has to do with evolution, EXACTLY HOW? Are you trying to claim evolution is what John intended when he wrote it?

    HOW SAD is your eisegesis?

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