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Thread: Better to trust scripture and not Darwin

  1. #1
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Default Better to trust scripture and not Darwin

    The idea of evolution, again does not fit with what scripture teaches. Ephesians 1 tells us God chose us in Christ before the world was created. The very basis of evolution relies on time and chance, which does not line up with a Creator who has a purpose and a plan.

    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved." Eph. 1:3-6

  2. #2
    alanmolstad
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    the starting place of evolution is that all life can be traced back to a common source...the Earth itself.
    According to evolution we are just a part of this earth that has come to life.

    and in the same way -

    The starting place of life according to the story of Genesis is the earth itself.
    According to Genesis we are just a part of this Earth that has come to life.

  3. #3
    alanmolstad
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    But someone might say - "But Alan, there is a big difference between animals and humans according to the Bible!"

    and this is true, the Bible does say that only Adam was created in the image of God.
    And what does this mean however?.....is it just talking about our flesh?

    If it is, then the Mormons are correct.
    If our flesh is created in the image of God, then like it or not the Mormons are correct in their understanding that our God is just a person with a human body that changed over time into being a god.


    However if you believe that when God created Adam in his image that this is talking about something within the man.....his spirit, then you can see that the body of flesh we have is not in any way, shape or form, created in the image of God.

    Thus we now can turn our attention to the origin of our body of flesh according to the Bible without any worry that we are going against the idea that we are made in the image of God.


    So where is the human body from?.....the answer is "from the earth" as we read at Genesis 3 -

    "By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”


    So while man is truly made in the image of God, we also see that at the same time our bodies of flesh are made of this earth......

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    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    the starting place of evolution is that all life can be traced back to a common source...the Earth itself.
    According to evolution we are just a part of this earth that has come to life.

    and in the same way -

    The starting place of life according to the story of Genesis is the earth itself.
    According to Genesis we are just a part of this Earth that has come to life.


    Alan, these quotes by Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman made me think of you.

    “The first principle [in science] is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”

    “I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems* is just as dumb as the next guy.”

    *Creation

  5. #5
    alanmolstad
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    yeah, I dont really know what that means...

    Im just pointing out to everyone that you never see anyone post a verse that teaches that the 7th day of the Creation week is over.....

    and there is a very good reason people don't try to use the Bible to prove the 7thDay is over already....the Bible does not teach that!

  6. #6
    alanmolstad
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    Let me go over just a few of the things I disagree with the teaching of the Young Earth Creation gang.

    In Young Earth Creationism (YEC) the earth is created before the sun.
    I believe the sun and stars are said to be created in the beginning.

    in YEC there is a "light" created before there is any source for that light.
    I believe all the light talked about in Genesis has a normal source, the same source we see today in the sky...(the sun and stars)

    in YEC the stars are made on the 4th Day
    I believe the stars are first said to be created in the beginning.

    in YEC life on the earth is not all connected to a source, and that animals and humans are from a different source.
    I believe there is a common source for all life, both human and all animals.

    In YEC the earth is created with seas from the start.
    I believe the earth was created as a dead and dry world and was later covered by seas.

    In YEC the earth is in darkness because God had yet to make the light.
    I believe the earth is said to be in "darkness" only due to thick clouds.

    In YEC the word "day" can only be understood to be talking about 24 hours.
    I believe that the 7th Day of the Genesis creation week has no ending in the Bible, and thus we are still in that as -yet, un-ended day....this is still the 7th day!

  7. #7
    alanmolstad
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    Now there are a lot of other places where I totally disagree with the teachings of the YEC gang, but the above list does note the biggest places.

    I would invite anyone who is interested in this debate, to read where I disagree with YEC, and if they have a issue?...or a question?...to feel free to ask me where in the bible I base what i believe?



    there are other topics that ,while not always held by the YEC gang, do tend to pop up in these conversations.

    An example is the common idea that fallen angels had sex with earth girls to make 'giants"....
    I believe that whole idea is in error, and that if you just stick to the context then you will not come up with that rather nutty idea.

    Another idea is that most of the YEC gang believe that evolution is against the Bible.
    I believe that evolution and Genesis offer the student a well-rounded understanding of earth's history, and that evolution and genesis are able to walk hand-in-hand.


    Now one of the things I notice is that while Im always quoting the Bible to support what i believe, that on the other hand the YEC gang does NOT like to try to quote the Bible very much to support their views.

    Many times on this forum I have asked the YEC gang the question, "What does the bible say was the very first things created "In the Beginning?""
    The YEC gang does not like that question....LOL

    About 4 years ago on this forum I tried over and over and over to get the forum's YEC gang here to answer that question....they would not!
    They did not dare!

    They knew that if he answered truthfully that it would totally undercut their whole argument against what i was teaching.
    so the conversation went like this -

    Alan - "What does it say as Gen 1:1 was the first things God created?"
    YEC- "you know evolution is evil"

    Alan - "But just read the verse to me, and tell me what the verse says was created first!"
    YEC "Darwin was a evil man"

    Alan - "So you will not read the bible and answer my question about what you see written?"
    YEC - " Evolution is a lie"

    Alan - "In *** 38 it tells what the earth was in Darkness, what does it say there?"
    YEC - "you know evolution is evil"




    It always goes like that...

    It always ends up with me quoting the Bible and asking Bible questions,
    and the YEC refusing to look at what the Bible says, and just tossing back at me junk that has nothing to do with anything Im asking about.

    YEC cant quote the Bible to support their views.
    YEC cant use the bible to answer my questions.

    All the YEC gang can do is quote the YEC websites and books, and they only are able to quote the books by Henry Morris.

    So all of the house of cards we call Young earth creationism is built on the works of Henry Morris......not on the bible.....YEC is based all on the works of man.
    Morris based his ideas on what he wanted the bible to have said....not what it actually says.

    That is what the YEC gang that visit this forum cant answer any of my questions about the bible, because they find that all they gotis the works of Morris, not any Bible stuff.



    But my views are all based on what the text of the Bible actually says.

  8. #8
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    So all of the house of cards we call Young earth creationism is built on the works of Henry Morris......not on the bible.....YEC is based all on the works of man.
    Hi Alan,

    I am not familiar with Henry Morris. You say YEC is based on the works of man, isn't the theory of evolution totally based on the works of man?

  9. #9
    alanmolstad
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    Oh yes...the study of gods world is the work given to Adam by god.
    Science is God's idea...


    So what I'm saying is that evolution and Genesis work hand in hand while YEC runs counter to both science AND the bible

  10. #10
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Alan,

    I am not familiar with Henry Morris.
    Then let me clue you in....




    I took the 8-week ORIGINS cl*** taught by Ken Ham personally and he admitted to me in a conversation that all the YEC books in the bookstore are simply a retelling of the work of Henry Morris.

    He said that Morris "wrote the Bible as far as Creationism"...and its his work and only his work that is being referred to in all these other books and websites.

    if not for Henry Morris, there would be no modern YEC teachings messing up the minds of Bible students today...





    So you did ask a very good question, and I hope I showed you that from the Bible, ( see genesis 2:19) the study that we call "science' was actually something given to mankind to do by God.
    The study of this creation is God's will for man to perform.

    The Bible does not lie, and the universe does not lie, for both the universe and the Bible are works of God's hands.

    But YEC is a work of man, and runs against both the universe and against the Bible.
    This is why I fight so hard to free people from being swept away by its false teachings.....


    So, I hope you will ask me more quesions..
    Im so tired or reading about the Mormons on this forum,and the endless bickering that does cause.
    I hope to encourage you to ask me more questions and encourage you to look for any weakness in the teachings I have posted here for you to look at.


    test me...test all that i do by the test of scripture...
    Look for yourself if what im saying the text says, actually says what i claim it says!!!!!!!
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 06-29-2016 at 06:44 PM.

  11. #11
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    .......... The very basis of evolution relies on time and chance, which does not line up with a Creator who has a purpose and a plan.
    because I have not had anyone post an update for a while on this topic, I dropped back and found that I have overlooked part of this past post that I had planned to address, but forgot to get to until now.

    "chance".......thats the objection against evolution in this post.
    The person believes that evolution hangs all on "chance" whereas the bible talks about a God in control who has a "plan"


    The answer I have to this is to , first point out that in evolution there actually is no such thing as 'chance", that in science we see things happen that always happen within the laws of probability...


    So thats the first thing that is important to show people.
    That in science we can narrow down the outcomes of things happening according to different laws that govern how things happen.
    An example is the laws that govern the flip of a coin....

    You flip a coin 100 times and there is a law of probability that governs how many times you can look forward to seeing the coin land "heads"....

    You will get "heads or tails" so many times.....
    you do not get "green".....
    you do not get "soft"....

    But you can work things out to a bell-curve to the "chance" of getting so many "HEADS".


    So is there such a thing as "chance" then to the flip of a coin?.....
    Well kinda yes, and kinda no.

    Kinda yes in that we humans dont know the future,
    but Kinda no in that you dont have to worry that the coin will land on "green"...or "soft", as it will be "heads or tails"
    Evolution is like this too.



    In evolution, there is only something we might refer to as"chance" because we are human and so we dont know the future.

    But on the other hand, there is always rules to how evolution works,and so there are the rules of probability that govern how things workout, so there is no real amount of "chance"involved with evolution at all.



    Be that as it may....
    There is a very good example in the Bible for how this thing we call "chance" works within evolution.

    In my next post I will show you from the Bible how there is a very good example that will helpus understand how we can have both a thing we can call "chance' and at the same time have a God who controls all things with his "plan"
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 06-30-2016 at 04:42 AM.

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    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    So what I'm saying is that evolution and Genesis work hand in hand
    Alan, what you are saying is your opinion and you happen to be wrong. The bible gives a truthful
    and factually accurate account of Creation which doesn't mention evolution in any way, shape or form.
    The scripture does not leave room for theories or foolish guesses, God created Adam and Eve fully
    human and adult and it did not take Him billions of years with much death, suffering and unreliable
    mutations. The scripture tells us that God looked at everything He had made and said it was very
    good. He didn't look at what He put in motion and say "in a billion years after much death and sin
    and a 50/50 probability it may be very good".

  13. #13
    alanmolstad
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    as I have said before, evolution is not taught in the story of Genesis, but what we do read works with the teachings of evolution.


    In evolution we find that alllifeis traced back to the earth itself...that the very forst pre-life building blocksof alllife on the earth are from this very earth itself.
    In evolutionwe are apartof this earth that hascometolife.


    is this any different in the Bible?.......

    To find out, just answer this one question- According to genesis 3:19 where is mankind from originally?

  14. #14
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    In my next post I will show you from the Bible how there is a very good example that will helpus understand how we can have both a thing we can call "chance' and at the same time have a God who controls all things with his "plan"

    Then the sailors said to each other, "Come, let us cast lots to find out who is responsible for this calamity." They cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah.



    this is a great example of how we can have a world that we see clearly is ruled by laws of probability(chance)...and yet at the same time have God in full control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    as I have said before, evolution is not taught in the story of Genesis,
    I rest my case.

  16. #16
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I rest my case.
    ..

    There is no end to the list of things that are not talked in the bible...yet that does not mean they are wrong.

    In genesis we have a story that works WITH evolution.

    consider-

    Where does evolution trace back all life to at the start?....the earth
    Where does Genesis trace back all life to at the start?.....the earth.


    So evolution is in perfect harmony with Genesis as to the origin of life on this world.

    Evolution and genesis come at this question from two very different points of view, but because they both are describing the very same moments in earth's history , we find them in agreement!
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-01-2016 at 03:04 PM.

  17. #17
    alanmolstad
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    Alan - "What does it say as Gen 1:1 was the first things God created?"

    YEC- "you know evolution is evil"

    Alan - "But just read the verse to me, and tell me what the verse says was created first!"

    YEC "Darwin was a evil man"

    Alan - "So you will not read the bible and answer my question about what you see written?"
    YEC - " Evolution is a lie"

    Alan - "In *** 38 it tells what the earth was in Darkness, what does it say there?"
    YEC - "you know evolution is evil"




    and so it goes, as the believers in the YEC false system keep ducking the Bible's teachings.

  18. #18
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Then the sailors said to each other, "Come, let us cast lots to find out who is responsible for this calamity." They cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah.



    this is a great example of how we can have a world that we see clearly is ruled by laws of probability(chance)...and yet at the same time have God in full control.
    My point here is that the universe can very well be ruled by luck and chance...with no way for science to ever show or prove there is a god ....and yet at the same time there actually is a God in full control of His creation.

    It does not have to be something we understand how it works...

    The men on the ship in the storm cast lots and the lots fell on Jonah...was this just luck?....was this just chance?....

    Well if a man of science were watching the men on the ship casting the lots, he would not have seen anything different than any other game of chance the men had played before.

    There was no giant's hand reaching down from heaven to force the men to cast the lots only one way over others.

    There really is no way mankind could run some type of test to see if God controlled the casting of the Lots....for there is no test for god...


    But because we are men of faith, when we read the story we know that God was in full control of the casting of the lots...we know God caused Jonah to be the one who the casting of the lots pointed to....

    We know this due to our faith....


    We also know that it was no accident,,,there was nothing left to luck,,,nothing left to chance.





    This is the same way with evolution of life.
    Nothing was left to luck
    Nothing was left to chance...

    Life evolved as God designed....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-04-2016 at 12:10 PM.

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    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Amazing, the amount of distrust granted back to us from the amount of truth WE put on the table. Rendered unfit for to attest to the truth. It is to the point now of ministering to ourselves when we visit w/you, seeing your ripe dislike of our contemplation which now is in mgt of sanity. Who cares? The submitted? But it's all gone. HERE WE GO AGAIN, , disregard piled-higher than reason will allow the spiritual mind.

  20. #20
    alanmolstad
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    Let me go over just a few of the things I disagree with the teaching of the Young Earth Creation gang.

    In Young Earth Creationism (YEC) the earth is created before the sun.
    I believe the sun and stars are said to be created in the beginning.

    in YEC there is a "light" created before there is any source for that light.
    I believe all the light talked about in Genesis has a normal source, the same source we see today in the sky...(the sun and stars)

    in YEC the stars are made on the 4th Day
    I believe the stars are first said to be created in the beginning.

    in YEC life on the earth is not all connected to a source, and that animals and humans are from a different source.
    I believe there is a common source for all life, both human and all animals.

    In YEC the earth is created with seas from the start.
    I believe the earth was created as a dead and dry world and was later covered by seas.

    In YEC the earth is in darkness because God had yet to make the light.
    I believe the earth is said to be in "darkness" only due to thick clouds.

    In YEC the word "day" can only be understood to be talking about 24 hours.
    I believe that the 7th Day of the Genesis creation week has no ending in the Bible, and thus we are still in that as -yet, un-ended day....this is still the 7th day!

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