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Thread: When a Mormon Leader Has Doubts

  1. 05-18-2016, 06:44 PM #1
    Apologette
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    Default When a Mormon Leader Has Doubts

    This video explains how a high ranking Europeans Mormon began having doubts about Mormonism:


    http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/1000...mid=fb-nytimes
    Last edited by Apologette; 05-23-2016 at 06:52 AM.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  2. 05-18-2016, 06:47 PM #2
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    It's interesting to see that about 1/5 of Mormons have doubts about Mormon teachings:

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...rch-teachings/
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  3. 05-19-2016, 09:47 PM #3
    BigJulie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    It's interesting to see that about 1/5 of Mormons have doubts about Mormon teachings:

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...rch-teachings/
    Should we now post something about Christians having doubts and becoming atheists?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
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  4. 05-23-2016, 06:54 AM #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Should we now post something about Christians having doubts and becoming atheists?

    Well, this wouldn't be the proper forum for that. However, if you even bothered watching the video, you'd note that the Mormon objected to the fact that there was no full disclosure by the cult - and that's Mormonism's biggest problem. They cover up. And when people find out the facts via the internet, or reading, they get disgusted and walk away. Why do you think they put out the pitiful revisionist "essays?" Because people are aware of the truth and are demanding an explanation.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  5. 05-23-2016, 08:39 AM #5
    BigJulie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post

    Well, this wouldn't be the proper forum for that. However, if you even bothered watching the video, you'd note that the Mormon objected to the fact that there was no full disclosure by the cult - and that's Mormonism's biggest problem. They cover up. And when people find out the facts via the internet, or reading, they get disgusted and walk away. Why do you think they put out the pitiful revisionist "essays?" Because people are aware of the truth and are demanding an explanation.
    Actually, this is the proper response because any believer understands the need for faith. I have been aware of our history for years. There is nothing hidden. But just as with any religion, the focus is on the gospel. There will always be those with doubts and those who give up their faith--as you see with every type of Christianity. It doesn't mean it is not true, it means that there are those who let their doubts hinder their faith. It happened in Christ's time as well.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
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  6. 05-23-2016, 09:11 AM #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Actually, this is the proper response because any believer understands the need for faith. I have been aware of our history for years. There is nothing hidden. But just as with any religion, the focus is on the gospel. There will always be those with doubts and those who give up their faith--as you see with every type of Christianity. It doesn't mean it is not true, it means that there are those who let their doubts hinder their faith. It happened in Christ's time as well.

    Well, if you want to discuss Christians, go to the proper forum. You are a Mormon, and we are discussing the Mormon cult, and the fact that so many are leaving the LDS due to its cover up of history. Tell us, would you have handed over your daughter to Joey as a plural if she was only 14?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  7. 05-23-2016, 09:11 AM #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Actually, this is the proper response because any believer understands the need for faith. I have been aware of our history for years. There is nothing hidden. But just as with any religion, the focus is on the gospel. There will always be those with doubts and those who give up their faith--as you see with every type of Christianity. It doesn't mean it is not true, it means that there are those who let their doubts hinder their faith. It happened in Christ's time as well.

    Well, if you want to discuss Christians, go to the proper forum. You are a Mormon, and we are discussing the Mormon cult, and the fact that so many are leaving the LDS due to its cover up of history. Tell us, would you have handed over your daughter to Joey as a plural if she was only 14?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  8. 05-23-2016, 09:55 AM #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    It's interesting to see that about 1/5 of Mormons have doubts about Mormon teachings:

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...rch-teachings/
    I do have a question, it's applicable since you are claiming a solid "cause & effect" claim here.

    When a "Christian" doubts their faith and leaves their church, who's responsible for that?
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  9. 05-23-2016, 10:06 AM #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post

    Well, if you want to discuss Christians, go to the proper forum. You are a Mormon, and we are discussing the Mormon cult, and the fact that so many are leaving the LDS due to its cover up of history. Tell us, would you have handed over your daughter to Joey as a plural if she was only 14?
    Could you please provide your evidence that "so many" are leaving the church due to "cover up of history"?

    You must have something, you are stating this as fact, so let's see where you are getting your information. Okey doke?
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  10. 05-23-2016, 10:21 AM #10
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    Well....still, Mormons are more knowledgeable about their own religion than evangelical Protestants...even with our "complicated" doctrine.

    http://creation.mobi/religion-survey...rance-of-bible

    "For instance, only ¼ of white evangelicals knew that Protestants uniquely teach that salvation is by faith alone (somewhat of a mistake—the actual teaching is by grace through faith—Ephesians 2:8–9)."

    3/4 or 75% of evangelicals don't even know how "Salvation" works??

    So is anyone "responsible" for that?
    Last edited by MickeyS; 05-23-2016 at 10:51 AM.
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  11. 05-23-2016, 11:57 AM #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    I do have a question, it's applicable since you are claiming a solid "cause & effect" claim here.

    When a "Christian" doubts their faith and leaves their church, who's responsible for that?
    I'm discussing Mormonism here. Did you even listen to the video? I see you love to jump on something, but never have a good grasp of what's being said.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  12. 05-23-2016, 12:48 PM #12
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    I was directly addressing your pew research article that you posted. As you can see, I responded directly to that.

    Was I not supposed to read that or any of those comments, or do you just not want to address my question?
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  13. 05-23-2016, 12:56 PM #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    I do have a question, it's applicable since you are claiming a solid "cause & effect" claim here.

    When a "Christian" doubts their faith and leaves their church, who's responsible for that?
    I'm discussing Mormonism here. Did you even listen to the video? I see you love to jump on something, but never have a good grasp of what's being said.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  14. 05-23-2016, 01:37 PM #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    I'm discussing Mormonism here. Did you even listen to the video? I see you love to jump on something, but never have a good grasp of what's being said.
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    I was directly addressing your pew research article that you posted. As you can see, I responded directly to that.

    Was I not supposed to read that or any of those comments, or do you just not want to address my question?
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  15. 05-23-2016, 01:55 PM #15
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    Btw...I am well aware of Hans Mattson's situation and saddened by his story. I don't think he's stupid, ignorant or faithless.

    I am in no place to judge him or determine what his personal situation and faith crisis to be or what he "should do" or "should have done". I can only imagine how hard it's been for him.

    I pray for Hans and for ANY person seeking answers to their questions. That's all I'm going to say about it. I'm not spending anymore time on this thread exploiting another man's crisis to further somebody's agenda.

    I was asking for your evidence of the things you claim, which I know I will never get.
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  16. 05-23-2016, 02:03 PM #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    Btw...I am well aware of Hans Mattson's situation and saddened by his story. I don't think he's stupid, ignorant or faithless.

    I am in no place to judge him or determine what his personal situation and faith crisis to be or what he "should do" or "should have done". I can only imagine how hard it's been for him.

    I pray for Hans and for ANY person seeking answers to their questions. That's all I'm going to say about it. I'm not spending anymore time on this thread exploiting another man's crisis to further somebody's agenda.

    I was asking for your evidence of the things you claim, which I know I will never get.

    In the course of posting on FB, and interacting with many former Mormons, it seems to me that this fellow has a lot of company. Mormons constantly complain about the false presentations they got from missionaries. In this guy's case, he even grew up in the cult.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  17. 05-23-2016, 09:49 PM #17
    BigJulie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post

    In the course of posting on FB, and interacting with many former Mormons, it seems to me that this fellow has a lot of company. Mormons constantly complain about the false presentations they got from missionaries. In this guy's case, he even grew up in the cult.
    And atheism is on the rise as Christians grow skeptical of what they read in the Bible. I guess Christianity should begin their missionary lessons with their own sordid history, scientific disclaimers, etc. I am amazed Apologette that you seem oblivious to your own hypocrisy.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
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  18. 05-24-2016, 07:12 AM #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And atheism is on the rise as Christians grow skeptical of what they read in the Bible. I guess Christianity should begin their missionary lessons with their own sordid history, scientific disclaimers, etc. I am amazed Apologette that you seem oblivious to your own hypocrisy.
    that is an interesting idea: whenever Protestants find someone they want to "evangelize" their message to, if they would first begin the introduction with a confession of their sordid history and of the beliefs that scientists consider to be incredible, then none of their members would ever quit their churches! makes sense to me!
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."
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  19. 05-24-2016, 08:45 AM #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    that is an interesting idea: whenever Protestants find someone they want to "evangelize" their message to, if they would first begin the introduction with a confession of their sordid history and of the beliefs that scientists consider to be incredible, then none of their members would ever quit their churches! makes sense to me!
    Kicked off again?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  20. 05-24-2016, 08:46 AM #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    that is an interesting idea: whenever Protestants find someone they want to "evangelize" their message to, if they would first begin the introduction with a confession of their sordid history and of the beliefs that scientists consider to be incredible, then none of their members would ever quit their churches! makes sense to me!
    Kicked off again?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  21. 05-24-2016, 08:53 AM #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    that is an interesting idea: whenever Protestants find someone they want to "evangelize" their message to, if they would first begin the introduction with a confession of their sordid history and of the beliefs that scientists consider to be incredible, then none of their members would ever quit their churches! makes sense to me!

    Kicked off again?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
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  22. 05-24-2016, 11:43 AM #22
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    watch this....Hey Phoenix! What's up?

    (Phoenix responds)

    I could do this every single day and Phoenix will respond, if not the same day then within a couple (not everyone can live on these sites)

    This person is a regular visitor of this forum....consistently accusing them otherwise is silly....and kinda weird.
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  23. 05-24-2016, 12:08 PM #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    watch this....Hey Phoenix! What's up?
    (Phoenix responds)
    I could do this every single day and Phoenix will respond, if not the same day then within a couple (not everyone can live on these sites)
    This person is a regular visitor of this forum....consistently accusing them otherwise is silly....and kinda weird.
    what's up, is that the weather is really nice here today, warm and sunny. i think I will go do some gardening.
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."
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  24. 05-24-2016, 10:50 PM #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    what's up, is that the weather is really nice here today, warm and sunny. i think I will go do some gardening.
    Awesome
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