Why should anyone believe

[DrDavidT]

well I am done talking with julie. her lack of understanding what the Bible says, her false accusations and he deluded state renders discussion impossible.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

well I am done talking with julie. her lack of understanding what the Bible says, her false accusations and he deluded state renders discussion impossible.

there is a way to place names onto your personal IGNORE LIST....it saves time.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

there is a way to place names onto your personal IGNORE LIST....it saves time.

Yes I know but thanks. her blanket dismissals, her mocking, her lack of knowledge and understanding just make talking to her a waste of time and I do not know why she has been allowed to remain here long enough to get 8000+ posts.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Yes I know but thanks. her blanket dismissals, her mocking, her lack of knowledge and understanding just make talking to her a waste of time and I do not know why she has been allowed to remain here long enough to get 8000+ posts.

Have you ever heard of the saying "the pot calling the kettle black."?

But I have noticed whenever I ask these questions (see post #25)

1. Why does God call his "gods" or wicked rulers as have been explained to me "children of the Most High"?
2. What many things will those rule who are good and faithful servants when they enter into the rest of the Lord?

...is exactly when my critics get offended and stop the conversation. I think you are 4 for 4.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Have you ever heard of the saying "the pot calling the kettle black."?

But I have noticed whenever I ask these questions (see post #25)

1. Why does God call his "gods" or wicked rulers as have been explained to me "children of the Most High"?
2. What many things will those rule who are good and faithful servants when they enter into the rest of the Lord?

...is exactly when my critics get offended and stop the conversation. I think you are 4 for 4.

No you woul dbe wrong. Those questions had nothing to do with my decision but you like deluding yourself...

Those questions are incoherent, illegible and make no sense. Maybe you should rewrite them so others can understand what you are asking

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

No you woul dbe wrong. Those questions had nothing to do with my decision but you like deluding yourself...

Those questions are incoherent, illegible and make no sense. Maybe you should rewrite them so others can understand what you are asking

They are incoherent and make no sense and that is why you choose not to answer. Well, just refer to the scriptures then and explain what they mean.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Now, I have heard a lot of discussion why they are called "gods", but no one has explained why they are called "children of the Most High."

And

Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. In this parable, what "many things" will this person be ruler over when he enters in the joy of the Lord?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

No you woul dbe wrong. Those questions had nothing to do with my decision but you like deluding yourself...

Those questions are incoherent, illegible and make no sense. Maybe you should rewrite them so others can understand what you are asking

They are incoherent and make no sense and that is why you choose not to answer? Well, just refer to the scriptures then and explain what they mean.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Now, I have heard a lot of discussion why they are called "gods", but no one has explained why they are called "children of the Most High."

And

Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. In this parable, what "many things" will this person be ruler over when he enters in the joy of the Lord?

[Christian]

big posted:

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]

And when someone worships a false god through a false 'spirit-brother-of-satan' 'christ,' their works are to worship falsely, and if they lead others to hell with them, then their end IS according to their works. . .they go to he||

Yes, this is the one way you can tell when someone is teaching something false--when they believe that you can worship "falsely" and for that God will send you to hell,

Sorry, but it doesn't matter what I believe regarding YOUR eternal life. . .What God has SAID IN SCRIPTURE He HAS SAID, and you can believe whatever you beliefe. . .and STILL GO TO HELL if you believe the gods and 'gospels' of joe smith. The God of the BIBLE has said that if you follow after false gods (like the 'spirit-brother of satan) you will go to HELL You can check THAT out in the BIBLE. . .if you ever choose to read it!

but on the other hand, do the works of Satan such as lie, steal, cheat (wow, Trump comes to mind here) and people will still look to them for salvation because they say the right thing.

Is THAT why you like trump and joe smith???? Because they both say what YOU WANT TO HEAR?

Calvinism seems to think it is all about being chosen and your behaviors make no difference. That goes so against the teachings of Christ, people should recognize it the leaders as "false prophets."

IF ANYONE EVER ACTUALLY TAUGHT THAT, they would indeed be a 'false prophet,' BUT NOBODY ACTUALLY TEACHES ANY SUCH THING. I think you made that up from your own tiny mind. You cannot produce EVEN ONE 'Calvinist' CHRISTIAN who ever taught such nonsense!

Do you make this junk up as you go?

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Christian

Sorry, but it doesn't matter what I believe regarding YOUR eternal life. . .What God has SAID IN SCRIPTURE He HAS SAID, and you can believe whatever you beliefe. . .and STILL GO TO HELL if you believe the gods and 'gospels' of joe smith. The God of the BIBLE has said that if you follow after false gods (like the 'spirit-brother of satan) you will go to HELL You can check THAT out in the BIBLE. . .if you ever choose to read it!

I understand you believe that God will send someone to hell who does not believe correctly. On the other hand, God states that you can know what a person believes by how they behave or a mans heart by how he treats others.

Phl 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Paul went out of his way to teach that you do not share the gospel with anything but charity.

Is THAT why you like trump and joe smith???? Because they both say what YOU WANT TO HEAR?

No, I won't vote from Trump. He is a vile man. I was thinking more of evangelicals liking him. I am not sure why.

IF ANYONE EVER ACTUALLY TAUGHT THAT, they would indeed be a 'false prophet,' BUT NOBODY ACTUALLY TEACHES ANY SUCH THING. I think you made that up from your own tiny mind. You cannot produce EVEN ONE 'Calvinist' CHRISTIAN who ever taught such nonsense!

Oh, you should have seen the arguments of some of the posters in here--they got so heated Jill erased them. But they were basically preaching that once "saved" it doesn't matter what you do.

Here is from one site:

"Unconditional Election." This is the concept of predestination: that God has divided humanity into two groups. One group is "the elected." It includes all those whom God has chosen to make knowledgeable about himself. The rest will remain ignorant of God, and the Gospel. They are ****ed and will spend eternity in Hell without any hope of mercy or cessation of the extreme tortures. God made this selection before the universe was created, and thus before any humans existed. The ground or grounds that God uses to select the lucky few is unknown. What is known is that it is not through any good works on the part of the individual. It is not that he extends knowledge to some in order to find out who will accept salvation and who will not.

There is a degree of tension within the Bible concerning precise division of responsibility between God and humans on this matter. The Bible does not resolve this issue.
bullet Hyper-Calvinists believe that a person has zero responsibility for their own salvation; it is all up to God." http://www.religioustolerance.org/calvinism.htm

Do you make this junk up as you go?

See site above, I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to.

[Christian]

Julie posted:

I understand you believe that God will send someone to hell who does not believe correctly.

God has NEVER sent anyone to hell for not believing correctly. HE HAS sent people to Hell for SINNING and depending on FALSE gods, FALSE christs and/or FALSE prophets to pay the price for their sins.

Your understanding of CHRISTIAN doctrine is warped by your false gods, false christ, and false prophet.

On the other hand, God states that you can know what a person believes by how they behave or a mans heart by how he treats others.

Phl 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

That p***age has nothing at all to do with how you know believers or non-believers at all. JESUS Said:

Matt 7:16-20
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
NKJV

Not by what YOU THINK the state of their mind is, or what YOU THINK their motives are.


Paul went out of his way to teach that you do not share the gospel with anything but charity.

Then you should be able to LIST A BUNCH OF P***AGES in the Bible that say so. In the meantime you may 'explain' how it was that a) Jesus called certain folks "whitewashed tombs, full of rotting bones. . .' and how it was that Jesus SAT DOWN, BRAIDED A WHIP, then drove people out of the temple. Charity? Perhaps not.

No, I won't vote from Trump. He is a vile man. I was thinking more of evangelicals liking him. I am not sure why.

Most likely because you seem to hate evangelical CHRISTIANS.

Oh, you should have seen the arguments of some of the posters in here--they got so heated Jill erased them. But they were basically preaching that once "saved" it doesn't matter what you do.

Here is from one site:

<snipped> the junk from 'one site.' I could put up a bunch of links to anti-mormon sites too, but I won't.

As for being saved is concerned, just a few BASIC reminders:
a) JESUS saved me, I did not.
b) JESUS is the good shepherd Who keeps me from going astray, I do not
c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not.

I can do anything I want to do. I am a CHRISTIAN and the things I want to do are things that please and serve God.

Where is your problem with that?

[Christian]

big posted:

Originally Posted by DrDavidT [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
You may know some of the words of the bible but you are missing the key ingredient in understanding and actually knowing what the Bible says-- see John 16:13

Actually, it is your group that denies that one can know the spirit by what our heart tells us. John 16:13 speaks exactly to this. Isn't it interesting that Christ teaches that he will teach more by the Spirit? In other words, there was more.

AND INDEED THERE WAS more. The crucifixion, the resurrection, Christ coming back to them, the ascension, and pentecost for just a few of the things that came later.

Nothing there indicates any 'losing of the church' or need for any 'restoring' of the church later however. ALL of that junk was invented by joey smith.

Oh, I completely agree. One can be educated and still not wise. The point you made is that we are brainwashed. I stated that this is not the case. You have been propagandized. You are not unlike the Germans who came to see the Jews as the problem. They were not brainwashed, but propagandized into believing something about a religion that was not true.

But of course YOU haven't been brainwashed, but propagandized into believing a bunch of FALSE JUNK about historical CHRISTIANITY that is not true. . . Yah, yah, WE know. . .

I am not basing my comments on my education, I am basing it on your obvious lack of understanding of what is in the Bible.

So far you have NOT SHOWN that you KNOW what is in the Bible. . .

My education has been wasted? God is the authority, yes. But His Bible is only understood through His spirit. God does not violate his word, but men do which is why they feel to come to a place like this an belittle and put down others--which is the fruit of the flesh. I do not lack an understanding at all of what the good fruit is. You do or you would not feel to put down others.

So Jesus and John the Baptist and Paul produced EVIL FRUIT when they put folks down with 'whitewashed tombs' and 'brood of vipers?'

My church does possess truth.

But it is based on lies.

This is why you see the good fruit of the spirit in our lives.

Leading people to hell, getting them to follow false gods, false christs, false prophets is "good fruit of the spirit?' Naaah.

And what other church understands the very basis of the Bible and the covenant made to Israel--which is to bring together a family that has been divided through the Atonement of Jesus Christ--or the covenant keeper--the bridegroom, sealing forever those to Him with His Father. The whole Bible is about family--and Christians miss this and then criticize Mormons for getting it.

Every CHRISTIAN church recognizes that the mormons DON'T 'get it.' And the Whole Bible is NOT about 'family.' It is about JESUS CHRIST.

Your religion's 'forever family' junk is a FARCE, not Biblical at all.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Christian

God has NEVER sent anyone to hell for not believing correctly. HE HAS sent people to Hell for SINNING and depending on FALSE gods, FALSE christs and/or FALSE prophets to pay the price for their sins.

So, what makes you believe your version of God is correct and mine is wrong?

That p***age has nothing at all to do with how you know believers or non-believers at all.

Oh, I thought those who believe in Christ would actually do what he asks. My mistake.

J

ESUS Said:

Matt 7:16-20
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
NKJV

Right, so I see the good fruit of my beliefs and also see the bad fruit of how you treat me. That's my point. So, wouldn't it stand to reason that your version of God is the wrong one?

Then you should be able to LIST A BUNCH OF P***AGES in the Bible that say so. In the meantime you may 'explain' how it was that a) Jesus called certain folks "whitewashed tombs, full of rotting bones. . .' and how it was that Jesus SAT DOWN, BRAIDED A WHIP, then drove people out of the temple. Charity? Perhaps not.

Well, he called them 'white washed tombs because even though they had the scriptures they misunderstood them and therefore used the "religion" to browbeat other people who were not part of their religion---exactly what you are doing.

Most likely because you seem to hate evangelical CHRISTIANS.

What? I just noted that evangelicals are voting for a vile man--and you seem to think that makes me hate christians? Wow.

Here is from one site:

<snipped> the junk from 'one site.' I could put up a bunch of links to anti-mormon sites too, but I won't.

This is a Christian site that calls itself religioustolerance.org trying to explain each christian site. I have heard Calvinist make the same argument for themselves.

As for being saved is concerned, just a few BASIC reminders:
a) JESUS saved me, I did not.
b) JESUS is the good shepherd Who keeps me from going astray, I do not
c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]

Really? You never sin?

I can do anything I want to do. I am a CHRISTIAN and the things I want to do are things that please and serve God.

Explain this. How can you do ANYTHING you want to and always please God? Once again, do you EVER sin?

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Those questions are incoherent, illegible and make no sense. Maybe you should rewrite them so others can understand what you are asking

I had no problem understanding what she said.

[Christian]

big posted:

Originally Posted by Christian

God has NEVER sent anyone to hell for not believing correctly. HE HAS sent people to Hell for SINNING and depending on FALSE gods, FALSE christs and/or FALSE prophets to pay the price for their sins.

So, what makes you believe your version of God is correct and mine is wrong?

I HAVE NO 'version' of God. I merely accept the only REAL GOD, the GOD OF THE BIBLE. He is the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE EVER. (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc etc IN THE BIBLE)

YOUR 'version of god' is wrong because it consists of joey smith's INVENTED god, a mere man (one of MANY) who supposedly was 'exalted to godhood' but was 'god for all eternity' and 'never changed' from man to god. Joey's false christ is supposed to be a 'spirit brother of satan.' YOUR gods are frauds, fakes, and the inventions of joey smith and are not real; THAT is what makes YOUR 'version of god' wrong.

big posted:

Phl 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselve

That p***age has nothing at all to do with how you know believers or non-believers at all.

Oh, I thought those who believe in Christ would actually do what he asks. My mistake.

The fact that we who believe in the REAL CHRIST DO do what He asks does NOT make that p***age become a p***age about knowing if you are a believer or non-believer at all. It does NOT 'fix' YOUR MISAPPLICATION OF SCRIPTURE.

Matt 7:16-20
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
NKJV

Right, so I see the good fruit of my beliefs and also see the bad fruit of how you treat me. That's my point. So, wouldn't it stand to reason that your version of God is the wrong one?

Let's see now. . .the 'good fruit' of your beliefs in a false god, a false christ, and a false prophet? NONE AT ALL.

The 'bad fruit of how I treat you? I correct your errors and behave in a CHRISTIAN manner, and YOU think that is 'bad fruit. Sorry, but your judgement is warped by your false religious view.

Then you should be able to LIST A BUNCH OF P***AGES in the Bible that say so. In the meantime you may 'explain' how it was that a) Jesus called certain folks "whitewashed tombs, full of rotting bones. . .' and how it was that Jesus SAT DOWN, BRAIDED A WHIP, then drove people out of the temple. Charity? Perhaps not.

Well, he called them 'white washed tombs because even though they had the scriptures they misunderstood them and therefore used the "religion" to browbeat other people who were not part of their religion---exactly what you are doing.

Your CLAIM was that violence of any kind was bad. I pointed out that Jesus was violent and that He and John the Baptist called folks some pretty 'mean' names at times too. Now you are whining.

Most likely because you seem to hate evangelical CHRISTIANS.

What? I just noted that evangelicals are voting for a vile man--and you seem to think that makes me hate christians? Wow.

EXACTLY WHERE do you pretend I think that makes you hate Christians? I merely noted that you "made" such an observation because YOU DO HATE CHRISTIANS. That was not causitory. OF COURSE some 'way-out' Christians will vote for Trump. So will some mormons and a lot of heathens. That will not MAKE THEM into mormons, heathens OR Chrisians. Your reasoning skills are sadly lacking.

As for being saved is concerned, just a few BASIC reminders:
a) JESUS saved me, I did not.
b) JESUS is the good shepherd Who keeps me from going astray, I do not
c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not.

Really? You never sin?

You draw that knee-**** 'conclusion'. . .HOW?

I do not want to sin. The sins I commit, Jesus forgave about 2,000 years ago.

Explain this. How can you do ANYTHING you want to and always please God? Once again, do you EVER sin?

The same way my children can do ANYTHING THEY WANT (they love me, want to please me), and even when it is WRONG BEHAVIOR, I still love them. Am I always pleased with their behavior? No. Do I always love them? Yes. Do they remain my own children when they '**** it?' Yep. They do.

And when I sin, is God pleased? No, He HATES the sin, but still LOVES ME.

Sorry if YOUR god is a vindictive god.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE=Christian;169214]

I HAVE NO 'version' of God. I merely accept the only REAL GOD, the GOD OF THE BIBLE. He is the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE EVER. (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc etc IN THE BIBLE)

You can believe this if you want to, but when asked questions such as:
Do you believe you are made in the image and likeness of God, you would say--well, yes, but not really.
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of the Father, you would say--well yes, but not really.

The only play you do say "really" is with Isaiah who speaks in metaphors.

The fact that we who believe in the REAL CHRIST DO do what He asks does NOT make that p***age become a p***age about knowing if you are a believer or non-believer at all. It does NOT 'fix' YOUR MISAPPLICATION OF SCRIPTURE.

So once again, your response to the scripture is, well, you can't really know someone's faith by their fruits.

Let's see now. . .the 'good fruit' of your beliefs in a false god, a false christ, and a false prophet? NONE AT ALL.

Actually, the scriptures do not say that is what the fruit of the spirit is or even of the flesh. So, once again--your answer to what the scriptures cons***ute good fruit or bad fruit is not really--you have your own definition.

The 'bad fruit of how I treat you? I correct your errors and behave in a CHRISTIAN manner, and YOU think that is 'bad fruit. Sorry, but your judgement is warped by your false religious view.

No, the way you behave is what the scriptures describe as bad fruit. In fact, bad fruit is described in behaviors.

Your CLAIM was that violence of any kind was bad. I pointed out that Jesus was violent and that He and John the Baptist called folks some pretty 'mean' names at times too. Now you are whining.

No, I am not whining, I am pointing out the similarities to how you believe based on believing you have correct understanding of the scriptures and the way the Pharisees did exactly the same thing.

EXACTLY WHERE do you pretend I think that makes you hate Christians? I merely noted that you "made" such an observation because YOU DO HATE CHRISTIANS. That was not causitory. OF COURSE some 'way-out' Christians will vote for Trump. So will some mormons and a lot of heathens. That will not MAKE THEM into mormons, heathens OR Chrisians. Your reasoning skills are sadly lacking.[/COLOR]

Oh, now you know my motives as well. I didn't know I was speaking to a mind reader.

Actually, my original point was that christians tend to think what people say is more important than what they do.. As evangelicals are his main supporter, this made sense to me that they would ignore Trumps bad behavior and support him based on what he says he believes. You have just made this very exact argument above. You were the one who took it on this strange tangent.



Y

You draw that knee-**** 'conclusion'. . .HOW?

Because you said this exact quote: "c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not."

I do not want to sin. The sins I commit, Jesus forgave about 2,000 years ago.

Oh, so you stated you do not WANT to sin.

Sorry if YOUR god is a vindictive god.

And yet you are the one running around telling others they are going to hell because of what they believe rather than what they do.

[Christian]

big posted:

As for being saved is concerned, just a few BASIC reminders:
a) JESUS saved me, I did not.
b) JESUS is the good shepherd Who keeps me from going astray, I do not
c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not.

You can believe this if you want to, but when asked questions such as:
Do you believe you are made in the image and likeness of God, you would say--well, yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of the Father, you would say--well yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. Your FALSE CLAIMS look STUPID TO ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

The only play you do say "really" is with Isaiah who speaks in metaphors.

Isaiah is speaking 'in metaphors' in 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc? GARBAGE!!! NOBODY seems to agree with your nonsensical claim.

So once again, your response to the scripture is, well, you can't really know someone's faith by their fruits.

Let's see now. . .joey smith's fruits (the one YOU follow) are that he was a liar, a false prophet, a peepstone gazer, treasure seeker, swindler who preached a false gospel, a false 'father god' and a false 'christ' (you STILL cannot deal with the 'brother of satan christ issue), had a gun smuggled into the jail and was killed trying to kill people on the way out. x PRETTY ROTTEN FRUIT.

The God of the Bible on the other hand NEVER lies, leads only REAL prophets, and gave HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO US CHRISTIANS.

Sorry you serve such a corrupt and lying god. "Meaphors indeed!" You REALLY MUST be making all this junk up as you go. . .

Actually, the scriptures do not say that is what the fruit of the spirit is or even of the flesh. So, once again--your answer to what the scriptures cons***ute good fruit or bad fruit is not really--you have your own definition.
No, the way you behave is what the scriptures describe as bad fruit. In fact, bad fruit is described in behaviors.



No, I am not whining, I am pointing out the similarities to how you believe based on believing you have correct understanding of the scriptures and the way the Pharisees did exactly the same thing.



Oh, now you know my motives as well. I didn't know I was speaking to a mind reader.

Actually, my original point was that christians tend to think what people say is more important than what they do.. As evangelicals are his main supporter, this made sense to me that they would ignore Trumps bad behavior and support him based on what he says he believes. You have just made this very exact argument above. You were the one who took it on this strange tangent.



Y Because you said this exact quote: "c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not."
Oh, so you stated you do not WANT to sin.


And yet you are the one running around telling others they are going to hell because of what they believe rather than what they do.[/QUOTE]

[Christian]

big posted:

As for being saved is concerned, just a few BASIC reminders:
a) JESUS saved me, I did not.
b) JESUS is the good shepherd Who keeps me from going astray, I do not
c) IF YOU LOVE JESUS, WOULD YOU want to sin? I do not.

You can believe this if you want to, but when asked questions such as:
Do you believe you are made in the image and likeness of God, you would say--well, yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of the Father, you would say--well yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. Your FALSE CLAIMS look STUPID TO ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

The only play you do say "really" is with Isaiah who speaks in metaphors.

Isaiah is speaking 'in metaphors' in 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc? GARBAGE!!! NOBODY seems to agree with your nonsensical claim.

So once again, your response to the scripture is, well, you can't really know someone's faith by their fruits.

Let's see now. . .joey smith's fruits (the one YOU follow) are that he was a liar, a false prophet, a peepstone gazer, treasure seeker, swindler who preached a false gospel, a false 'father god' and a false 'christ' (you STILL cannot deal with the 'brother of satan christ issue), had a gun smuggled into the jail and was killed trying to kill people on the way out. x PRETTY ROTTEN FRUIT.

The God of the Bible on the other hand NEVER lies, leads only REAL prophets, and gave HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO US CHRISTIANS.

Sorry you serve such a corrupt and lying god. "Meaphors indeed!" You REALLY MUST be making all this junk up as you go. . .

Wife is calling me to dinner. I will try to get back to this later.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

big posted:



You can believe this if you want to, but when asked questions such as:
Do you believe you are made in the image and likeness of God, you would say--well, yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of the Father, you would say--well yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. Your FALSE CLAIMS look STUPID TO ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Okay, do tell--do you really believe you are made in the image and likeness of God? Do you really believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father--if your answer is yes--then exactly how do you mean?

Isaiah is speaking 'in metaphors' in 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc? GARBAGE!!! NOBODY seems to agree with your nonsensical claim.

Really, then you think this is literal:


And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.
And it shall come to p*** in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep;

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

big posted:



You can believe this if you want to, but when asked questions such as:
Do you believe you are made in the image and likeness of God, you would say--well, yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of the Father, you would say--well yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. Your FALSE CLAIMS look STUPID TO ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Okay, do tell--do you really believe you are made in the image and likeness of God? Do you really believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father--if your answer is yes--then exactly how do you mean?

Isaiah is speaking 'in metaphors' in 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc? GARBAGE!!! NOBODY seems to agree with your nonsensical claim.

Really, then you think this is literal:


And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.
And it shall come to p*** in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep;

[Christian]

big posted:

Originally Posted by Christianbig posted:

You can believe this if you want to, but when asked questions such as:
Do you believe you are made in the image and likeness of God, you would say--well, yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of the Father, you would say--well yes, but not really.

Don't PRETEND to speak for ME. Your FALSE CLAIMS look STUPID TO ME. YOU may answer that way, but I would not.

Okay, do tell--do you really believe you are made in the image and likeness of God?


NKJV


I believe EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE. . .IT SAYS

Gen 1:26
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Do you really believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father--if your answer is yes--then exactly how do you mean?

Perhaps YOU think that 'has gotta mene' PHYSICAL image? Please POINT TO THE WORDS THAT SAY SO, THEN EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING. . .
1) 1 Tim 1:1717 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV (If Genesis 1:26 were talking about a PHYSICAL body, how could He be INVISIBLE? Are YOU invisible?)
2) 1 Tim 6:16
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
NKJV {Again, if Genesis 1:26 were referring to a PHYSICAL Body man could be able to SEE IT. Can people SEE YOU?)

3) Col 1:15-1615 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
NKJV

4)John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
NKJV
In REALITY GOD'S 'IMAGE" is a SPIRITUAL IMAGE, NOT A PHYSICAL ONE. God IS SPIRIT, not 'has one,' or 'will get one' BUT IS SPIRIT.

ARE YOU Spirit?

And IS a spirit flesh and bone?

Luke 24:39
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."
NKJVAccording to JESUS, a spirit does NOT have flesh and bones. Do YOU have flesh and bones?

So the IMAGE OF GOD does not have flesh and bones; it is SPIRITUAL.

Of course your false prophet joey smith wasn't aware of that. . .

Really, then you think this is literal:

And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.
And it shall come to p*** in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep;[/QUOTE]

I could not find that p***age anywhere in my Bible, but I DID find this:

1 Sam 13:6
6 When the men of Israel saw that they were in danger (for the people were distressed), then the people hid in caves, in thickets, in rocks, in holes, and in pits.
NKJV

Apparently that sort of thing DID HAPPEN.

Of course, being mormon won't allow you to accept what is WRITTEN in the Bible without trying to "re-define" it to fit your predetermined theology and world view.

OF COURSE Isaiah 'musta bin' speaking in metaphors. . .after all, if he MEANT WHAT HE WROTE HE WOULD BE A LIAR (according to YOUR 'theology' and presuppositions).

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

big posted:



Okay, do tell--do you really believe you are made in the image and likeness of God?


NKJV


I believe EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE. . .IT SAYS

Gen 1:26
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Do you really believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father--if your answer is yes--then exactly how do you mean?

Perhaps YOU think that 'has gotta mene' PHYSICAL image? Please POINT TO THE WORDS THAT SAY SO, THEN EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING. . .
1) 1 Tim 1:1717 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV (If Genesis 1:26 were talking about a PHYSICAL body, how could He be INVISIBLE? Are YOU invisible?)
2) 1 Tim 6:16
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
NKJV {Again, if Genesis 1:26 were referring to a PHYSICAL Body man could be able to SEE IT. Can people SEE YOU?)

3) Col 1:15-1615 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
NKJV

4)John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
NKJV
In REALITY GOD'S 'IMAGE" is a SPIRITUAL IMAGE, NOT A PHYSICAL ONE. God IS SPIRIT, not 'has one,' or 'will get one' BUT IS SPIRIT.

ARE YOU Spirit?

And IS a spirit flesh and bone?

Luke 24:39
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."
NKJVAccording to JESUS, a spirit does NOT have flesh and bones. Do YOU have flesh and bones?

So the IMAGE OF GOD does not have flesh and bones; it is SPIRITUAL.

Of course your false prophet joey smith wasn't aware of that. . .

Really, then you think this is literal:

And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.
And it shall come to p*** in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep;

I could not find that p***age anywhere in my Bible, but I DID find this:

1 Sam 13:6
6 When the men of Israel saw that they were in danger (for the people were distressed), then the people hid in caves, in thickets, in rocks, in holes, and in pits.
NKJV

Apparently that sort of thing DID HAPPEN.

Of course, being mormon won't allow you to accept what is WRITTEN in the Bible without trying to "re-define" it to fit your predetermined theology and world view.

OF COURSE Isaiah 'musta bin' speaking in metaphors. . .after all, if he MEANT WHAT HE WROTE HE WOULD BE A LIAR (according to YOUR 'theology' and presuppositions).

Okay after your great big long explanation that can be shortened to "yes, but not really"--here is an answer to your first question:

Perhaps YOU think that 'has gotta mene' PHYSICAL image? Please POINT TO THE WORDS THAT SAY SO,

Moses wrote Genesis. Just a few chapters later he stated: Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

He makes it pretty clear what this means unless you think that your child is somehow different than you.

THEN EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING. . .
1) 1 Tim 1:1717 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV (If Genesis 1:26 were talking about a PHYSICAL body, how could He be INVISIBLE? Are YOU invisible?)

God is invisible to us, but he is clearly seen by some.

Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So clearly, he is not invisible to all.

2) 1 Tim 6:16
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
NKJV {Again, if Genesis 1:26 were referring to a PHYSICAL Body man could be able to SEE IT. Can people SEE YOU?)

See above quote.

3) Col 1:15-1615 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
NKJV

Once again, invisible to us does not mean invisible to all as taught in the scriptures.

And to make it more clear: Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

In other words, Christ is now invisible to you--you have not seen him, but others have.

4)John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Having a spirit does not disqualify someone from having a body. This explanation is being told to a Samaritan women who cannot worship in Jerusalem. Christ is teaching her that she can still worship because God must be worshiped via the spirit.

But clearly, those who are righteous have beheld the Father and Christ at his right hand: Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

[Christian]

big posted:

From a Mormon and observing my life compared to lives of my non-Mormon friends---we are not controlled,

If you are poor and don't pay your ***he, let's see you NOT be controlled and lets see you get your 'temple reccomend. . .' And if you live in one neighborhood, are you free to attend church across town instead of the building across the street from your house? And does NOBODY EVER come over to your house to see exactly how much you earn and give?

Not controlled? Yah, SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE!

this is not some type of cash cow. You give your ***hes to your pastor and he lives off of it. We give our ***hes and see how it is spend--back on us in church buildings, temples, education, our well-being.

In my congregation (as with MOST Christian evangelical congregations) we have a 'business meeting every quarter, complete with a COMPLETE ACCOUNTING REPORT showing every penny that came in, how it was spent, by whom, and for what, INCLUDING all building expenses, gifts to missionaries, individuals in need, rescue missions, etc etc etc.

DO YOU GET THAT KIND OF ACCOUNTING? From what I have heard from my mormon friends, you do not.

Do you know that after buildings, the second largest budget in the church is education. A group who is trying to "control" as you say, would not spend so much effort on making sure that their members are educated.
And your 'education' is 'church education. . .not REAL education, but indoctrination in your religious beliefs.

"Mormons are significantly more likely than the population overall to have some college education. Six-in-ten Mormons (61%) have at least some college education, compared with half of the overall population." Pew Research

And more mormons use pornography than any other religious group!

So what? Is ANY of that junk going to get you ANY CLOSER TO GOD at all?

Naah. . .it's just "my daddy can beat up your daddy" childish argument from you that I needed to respond to.

And WHEN AND WHERE was this 'research' done? Approximately 50% of the general UNSAVED PUBLIC has 'at least some college education. ' That includes CHRISTIAN HOME SCHOOLERS who have even a higher rate than your mormons do. And some of the world's most renowned intellectuals are atheists.

SO WHAT?

Why should anybody believe joe smith's fictions?

[Christian]

'big' posted:

Ha, you have been brainwashed if you believe this is the type of education we get. Is it hard for you to accept that Mormons are better educated on average? Or that we score higher on knowing the Bible than Christians?

According to WHO? YOU? Secular folks who have no CLUE about the BIble but 'score' folks anyway?

Let's see now. . .the education you get from the MORMON churches. . .OH YES, IT IS TO GET YOU TO KNOW MORMON BELIEFS BETTER. THAT is why you set up seminaries across from public schools. . .I have been in them, seen the 'curriculum.' IF they had been run by the Korean government, they would have been swayed towards THAT MINDSET INSTEAD!

"However, even after controlling for levels of education and other key demographic traits (race, age, gender and region), significant differences in religious knowledge persist among adherents of various faith traditions. Atheists/agnostics, Jews and Mormons still have the highest levels of religious knowledge." Pew Research (but I suppose you believe that Pew has been brainwashed as well to come up with these stats.)

Pew also says unmarried pregnancies and ****sexual behaviors are higher in the heavily mormon areas of utah and southern Idaho.

Wanna discuss THOSE things a bit?

You can find 'statistics' to 'prove' anything you want, whether they reflect the Truth or not. After all, Trump (your hero) STILL won the popular vote in most populous states, didn't he? So the SECULAR OPINIONS MUST BE RIGHT, huh?

You are actually quite humorous, any other funny comments that have nothing to do with Pew researched reality? [/QUOTE]

Don't you consider the THINGS OF GOD to be reality? Is Pew YOUR 'expert witness?'

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

If you are poor and don't pay your ***he, let's see you NOT be controlled and lets see you get your 'temple reccomend. . .' And if you live in one neighborhood, are you free to attend church across town instead of the building across the street from your house? And does NOBODY EVER come over to your house to see exactly how much you earn and give?

Well, being poor does not prevent someone from paying a ***he--just ask the widow who gave her mite. That said, no--no one comes to our house and they never ask how much we earn.

In my congregation (as with MOST Christian evangelical congregations) we have a 'business meeting every quarter, complete with a COMPLETE ACCOUNTING REPORT showing every penny that came in, how it was spent, by whom, and for what, INCLUDING all building expenses, gifts to missionaries, individuals in need, rescue missions, etc etc etc.

Okay, so you run your church like a business.

[/COLOR]DO YOU GET THAT KIND OF ACCOUNTING? From what I have heard from my mormon friends, you do not.

No, but we have "budgets" that we have control over and spend--even the women.

And your 'education' is 'church education. . .not REAL education, but indoctrination in your religious beliefs.

You would never know that by the ***s the graduates are offered. Forbes lists byu as #86 in school rankings (nationwide.)

And more mormons use pornography than any other religious group!
[COLOR=#0000ff]

Or at least that is known about because it is not tallied when a person goes to a strip-bar. But yes, we do recognize this as a problem. I never said otherwise.

ANY of that junk going to get you ANY CLOSER TO GOD at all?

No, but certainly refutes the ***ertion that we are brainwashed which started this conversation.

[/B][COLOR=#0000ff]And WHEN AND WHERE was this 'research' done? Approximately 50% of the general UNSAVED PUBLIC has 'at least some college education. ' That includes CHRISTIAN HOME SCHOOLERS who have even a higher rate than your mormons do. And some of the world's most renowned intellectuals are atheists.

SO WHAT?

It is PEW research. Are you not familiar with this research body? I only bring this up because of the ***ertion that Mormons are brainwashed. Clearly, we are not.

[BigJulie]

[

Originally Posted by Christian

[You can find 'statistics' to 'prove' anything you want, whether they reflect the Truth or not. After all, Trump (your hero) STILL won the popular vote in most populous states, didn't he? So[/COLOR][SIZE=4][FONT=arial black][COLOR=#000000][I][B] the SECULAR OPINIONS MUST BE RIGHT, huh?

I am beginning to believe you do not read my posts. I have never liked Trump and even told you I would not vote for him.

Don't you consider the THINGS OF GOD to be reality? Is Pew YOUR 'expert witness?'

You seem to want to go off on this as if my siting Pew meant I do not have faith. I merely sited it to show that research clearly does not agree that Mormons are uneducated or brainwashed.

Christian---I hope some day you can go back and read your posts and see how "unchristian" you sound--you put down, you smirk, you contend. It is only because I have true christian friends I know that you are not representative of the whole.