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Thread: Introduction Thread for Jude 1:3 and oppurtunity for others to give basic info

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Default Introduction Thread for Jude 1:3 and oppurtunity for others to give basic info

    Alright, I'm going to take Alan's advise and start a topic about myself. After that maybe some other folks would like to chime in and post what exactly they believe and basic information about themselves if they want.


    Ok here it goes:

    I am a Trinitarian.
    I believe the Nicene Creed and The Apostles' Creed.
    I read Dr. Walter Martin's book "Essential Christianity" and it helped me greatly.
    Dr. Walter Martin's debates on Youtube have also helped me very much.

  2. #2
    alanmolstad
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    I used to listen to the Bible Answer Man show on my way home from work back when I had a *** that got done in time to catch the show...

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I used to listen to the Bible Answer Man show on my way home from work back when I had a *** that got done in time to catch the show...


    Thank you for posting.

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    I am asking respectfully, would anyone else care to post in this thread ?

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    If you are intereste din biblical archaeology, here is a website you should read. I know the people there and often disagree with them and have corrected some of their mistakes, though they do not like that part. You cannot take everything they say as gospel truth and the first person you should read is Dr. Bryant Wood. He is the best of the lot and here is a link to probably the best article on Sodom and Gomorrah to date

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...-Gomorrah.aspx

    an easier article to read is this one:

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...struction.aspx

    The second person there you should read is Gordan Franz. He deals with Sinai and the Exodus a lot while refuting people like Wyatt and Cornuke.

    Videos are not necessarily the best place to go for one's information. They are easy but cannot be as detailed as articles can be.

    Then if you want another option read just about everything you can by Dr. Craig Evans, here is his website

    http://craigaevans.com/index.htm

    he is very good at explaining things and not as technical as some archaeologists tend to be. I have sat through many of his lectures, heard him debate Bart Ehrman and read some of his books and articles. Two you should read first are Jesus and His world & Fabricating Jesus. He knows what he is talking about
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

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    If you are intereste din biblical archaeology, here is a website you should read. I know the people there and often disagree with them and have corrected some of their mistakes, though they do not like that part. You cannot take everything they say as gospel truth and the first person you should read is Dr. Bryant Wood. He is the best of the lot and here is a link to probably the best article on Sodom and Gomorrah to date

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...-Gomorrah.aspx

    an easier article to read is this one:

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...struction.aspx

    The second person there you should read is Gordan Franz. He deals with Sinai and the Exodus a lot while refuting people like Wyatt and Cornuke.

    Videos are not necessarily the best place to go for one's information. They are easy but cannot be as detailed as articles can be.

    Then if you want another option read just about everything you can by Dr. Craig Evans, here is his website

    http://craigaevans.com/index.htm

    he is very good at explaining things and not as technical as some archaeologists tend to be. I have sat through many of his lectures, heard him debate Bart Ehrman and read some of his books and articles. Two you should read first are Jesus and His world & Fabricating Jesus. He knows what he is talking about
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    If you are intereste din biblical archaeology, here is a website you should read. I know the people there and often disagree with them and have corrected some of their mistakes, though they do not like that part. You cannot take everything they say as gospel truth and the first person you should read is Dr. Bryant Wood. He is the best of the lot and here is a link to probably the best article on Sodom and Gomorrah to date

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...-Gomorrah.aspx

    an easier article to read is this one:

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...struction.aspx

    The second person there you should read is Gordan Franz. He deals with Sinai and the Exodus a lot while refuting people like Wyatt and Cornuke.

    Videos are not necessarily the best place to go for one's information. They are easy but cannot be as detailed as articles can be.

    Then if you want another option read just about everything you can by Dr. Craig Evans, here is his website

    http://craigaevans.com/index.htm

    he is very good at explaining things and not as technical as some archaeologists tend to be. I have sat through many of his lectures, heard him debate Bart Ehrman and read some of his books and articles. Two you should read first are Jesus and His world & Fabricating Jesus. He knows what he is talking about





    Thank you for posting. I'm being 100% Serious.

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post

    The second person there you should read is Gordan Franz. He deals with Sinai and the Exodus a lot while refuting people like Wyatt and Cornuke.



    I want to specifically ask you about this. I'm seriously trying to figure out why you don't believe Jabal al-Lawz is Mt. Mt. Sinai. Think about it for a second:

    You have in One Place:

    * The Split Rock of Horeb including Water Erosion where the water flowed.

    * Fenced off Golden Calf Altar with Petroglyphs

    * White Pillar Remains

    * Blackened Mountain Top

    * Animal Sacrifice Corral

    * Cave of Elijah

    These are all in One Place. ONE PLACE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    I want to specifically ask you about this. I'm seriously trying to figure out why you don't believe Jabal al-Lawz is Mt. Mt. Sinai. Think about it for a second:

    You have in One Place:

    * The Split Rock of Horeb including Water Erosion where the water flowed.

    * Fenced off Golden Calf Altar with Petroglyphs

    * White Pillar Remains

    * Blackened Mountain Top

    * Animal Sacrifice Corral

    * Cave of Elijah

    These are all in One Place. ONE PLACE.
    I have explained some of my reason already. if you read Ex. 32 you will find that petroglyphs were not mentioned as part of the golden calf alter and that it was destroyed so how could those items be markers for Aaron's alter?

    As for the split rock, are you sure you are at Horeb? How do you know it is the rock that Moses spoke to or struck?

    What white pillar remains and how do you know they came from the white pillar? How can you verify them as those remains? Do you have samples from the white pillar to compare?
    blackened mountain top-- who is to say that a fire had not hit that mountain in the past 5,000 years? How can you prove those blackened marks are form God?
    Animal sacrifice corrals-- how can you say they were not constructed by nomads for their own livestock? What evidence do you have tying them to the people of Israel?

    cave of elijah-- I have asked this before, present evidence that elijah actually stayed there. You cannot call it the cave of elijah if you have no verifiable evidence that elijah was even there. a cave on the mountainside i snot evidence that elijah slept there.

    So they are all in one place, nothing ties them to Moses and the people of Israel. being in one place doe snot make them evidence or actual artifacts.
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    how could those items be markers for Aaron's alter?

    It's the only altar around and is fenced off by the Saudi Arabian Government:

    msv31sign.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    As for the split rock, are you sure you are at Horeb? How do you know it is the rock that Moses spoke to or struck?


    It's the only 10 Story Rock split down the middle with water erosion I've ever seen before:

    sinaihoreb.jpg






    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    What white pillar remains and how do you know they came from the white pillar?
    Twelve Pillars Near Jubal Al Lawz 4a.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    blackened mountain top-
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jude1:3; 07-31-2016 at 02:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    Animal sacrifice corrals-- how can you say they were not constructed by nomads for their own livestock? What evidence do you have tying them to the people of Israel?

    Well, they are located in The Exact Same Location as everything else we are talking about.

    artifactsmtsinai2.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    present evidence that elijah actually stayed there


    Present information that he didn't.

    10283123_f520.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Another picture of the view from Elijah's cave :


    fd7bc0d207cbb91eeb195ef624ec87ab.jpg

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    I'm also interested in what Denomination you are apart of.

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    alanmolstad
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    The "story" starts to all fall apart when men of science dig into the claims about this site.

    The support for this site fades away as you look at the men that came out with this stuff....they were conman...

    But the way a conman works is that he will tell you a story that you want to believe....and then you will fill-in the rest on your own.


    Each of the photos, each of the things you see in the videos all all rely on you wanting to believe.
    This "wanting" stops you from asking the hard questions.

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    alanmolstad
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    so what I see going on is the same thing we saw back in my day with people that felt that the USSR and it's leader at the time were the Anti-Christ......or that our president back in the 80s was the Anti-Christ......or that the soon warin Iraq would be the war that leads to the soon return of Christ......

    and that is just like the people who made the predictions about the end of the world (7th dayers, or the JWs etc)


    What they all do is look at something in the news, or look at some thing they find, or just look at a photo, and then open their Bible and try to find a way to make it all fit.

    If I were to go into the wilderness and find a rock sitting someplace that looked out of place to my eyes, I bet I could open my bible and find a verse that talks about it....


    Thats how CULTS get started....that is how some CULT leaders seem to know a bit more about some things than their followers.
    The trick is being able to act like you have some type of 'insde information" that others want to learn...
    That is how photos about caves and rocks and land formations get turned by con men into real "proof"of this or that Bible story.

    That is why when you ask for more real proof the people that already believe in then suddenly act like you dont believe in the Bible or something?
    They will start to question your faith because to them, the photos and videos are all the proof anyone should need to believe.


    Well.....my own opinion of this whole story is this-

    Its a story invented by a well known conman, who used it to push his speaking fees and to sell books and tapes.
    This is how the guy made a buck

    well....what I also have learned is that you dont have to dig hard to find out that there is no science to the wild stories, and that when you look into the story even just for a short time it all starts to fall apart....

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    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Its a story invented by a well known conman, who used it to push his speaking fees and to sell books and tapes.
    This is how the guy made a buck



    It is possible that even though some people are trying to make money off of the find it could still be legit.

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    You know, normally I am very very skeptical of this kind of stuff but I've never seen So Many Physical things In One Place all matching up with the Exodus account. That is why I'm convinced that it is The Real Mount Sinai in Arabia like Galatians 24:25 tells us.

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    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    You know, normally I am very very skeptical of this kind of stuff but I've never seen So Many Physical things In One Place all matching up with the Exodus account. That is why I'm convinced .......
    actually there is not a single bit of real proof about any of the same "Physical things"that seem so much to convince you.
    Its this needto believe that kindablinds a person into seeing what they want to believe is there.

    a pile of rocks becomes the item talked about in the Bible....and "if" that is true then this other rock "must' be this other thing talked about in the Bible too.
    "and' if they are the things listed in the Bible, then this cave that is here can be this other thing talked about in the Bible....and suddenly whatever you see can be turned into some type of proof of a bible story...



    on the other hand....

    if you do a google search for guys who have looked into the claims and done the research , guess what you find?...ANSWER:you find that the so-called proof is just in your mind.

    The supporting names of scientests turn out to not be supporting at all when you track them down and ask them.
    The 'translations" that are said to match the bible story,are not supported by people that know about such things,or the person that did the translation is never listed so you can check them out.

    Even the fact that a fence goes up is soon seen as just "more proof" that the wild claims are true....

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    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    You know, normally I am very very skeptical of this kind of stuff but I've never seen So Many Physical things In One Place all matching up with the Exodus account. That is why I'm convinced .......
    actually there is not a single bit of real proof about any of the same "Physical things"that seem so much to convince you.
    Its this need to believe that kindablinds a person into seeing what they want to believe is there.

    a pile of rocks becomes the item talked about in the Bible....and "if" that is true then this other rock "must' be this other thing talked about in the Bible too.
    "and' if they are the things listed in the Bible, then this cave that is here can be this other thing talked about in the Bible....and suddenly whatever you see can be turned into some type of proof of a bible story...



    on the other hand....

    if you do a google search for guys who have looked into the claims and done the research , guess what you find?...ANSWER:you find that the so-called proof is just in your mind.
    https://answersingenesis.org/creatio...ng-ark-expose/


    The supporting names of scientests turn out to not be supporting at all when you track them down and ask them.
    The 'translations" that are said to match the bible story,are not supported by people that know about such things,or the person that did the translation is never listed so you can check them out.

    Even the fact that a fence goes up is soon seen as just "more proof" that the wild claims are true....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-31-2016 at 02:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    this other rock


    It's in Arabia - Check

    It's a Huge Rock split down the middle - Check

    It has Water Erosion at the base coming down In A Place That Doesn't Get Rain very Often - Check






    Attached Images Attached Images

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    You know, normally I am very very skeptical of this kind of stuff but I've never seen So Many Physical things In One Place all matching up with the Exodus account. That is why I'm convinced that it is The Real Mount Sinai in Arabia like Galatians 24:25 tells us.
    I gave you good reasons why those items are not evidence for that mountain to be Mt. Sinai and it seems that you have ignored those reasons and continued on your merry way promoting the site as Mt. Sinai. Do you actually listen to others who know more about this than you?

    I explained to you that the biblical description and fate of the altar do not match up with what you and others claim to be evidence for the altar and you keep harping on the split rock even ignoring the fact that the bible does not state it is ten stories tall. You only look at what you want to see and that is not good for a believer's reputation.

    So there is water erosion, you cannot prove that the rock split because of it. You need to think about these things and be honest with yourself. Then there is the matter of it being the only altar fenced off by the Saudis. So what? That act is not evidence that that is the real altar. You are leaping to conclusions and not taking the time to sif5 through all of the evidence to see the true picture.

    Again, you keep calling the cave Elijah's cave but where has it ever been proven to be Elijah's cave? It is a cave on a mountain and until you can prove Elijah slept there it is not his cave.

    Present information that he didn't.
    This is not a re****al. I do not have to prove he didn't for there is nothing saying he did.

    Well, they are located in The Exact Same Location as everything else we are talking about.
    this is not evidence that they were for the altar. You do not get it do you? Anyone over the past 5,000 could have built those. You do not understand how evidence works do you?

    I'm also interested in what Denomination you are apart of.
    sorry not going to happen
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    I'm also interested in what Denomination you are apart of.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    sorry not going to happen



    Are you afraid to reveal what denomination you're apart of because it will open you up to criticism and examination ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Are you afraid to reveal what denomination you're apart of because it will open you up to criticism and examination ?
    You do not listen nor learn-- I do not put personal information on the internet
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

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    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    Are you afraid to reveal what denomination you're apart of because it will open you up to criticism and examination ?
    .

    each of us should enjoy the opportunity to share things, or not share things as they wish.

    But I do always tell people that run into people that seem just a little too interested in personal stuff to "Play your cards close to the vest"


    Dont share personal stuff.
    If you dont know much about the other person, or if you are unsure of the way your personal information might be used, then ignore them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    You do not listen nor learn-- I do not put personal information on the internet


    Are you afraid ? Also, what school did you get your "Doctorate" Degree at ?

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