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Thread: Where is the evidence that mormonism is true?

  1. #26
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    P.S. I also need to point out that it is Smith's word and Smith's alone that states he is a 'prophet' of God and that his mission is to restore the old faith. There is NO document written prior to Smith's existence telling anyone that Smith is going to be a prophet with a restoration mission. There is nothing alluding to any prophet coming later than Jesus.

    What this means is that Mormons are taking the word of a man who is a known thief, criminal, con man without any support from any religious writing from anywhere in the world. Not even from those mythological Mormon nations who fought each other. ZILCH from them as they left no writings, no inscriptions nothing to indicate a prophet is coming let alone that they existed at all.

    Smith is a self-proclaimed prophet and the Bible says a man's own testimony is not true. So now you have to square biblical teaching that contradicts your 'prophet's own testimony' with your supposed faith. If you believe and follow the Bible then you cannot accept Smith's testimony about himself.
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  2. #27
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    [QUOTE=BigJulie;169323]
    Did you belong to any religion at all in your youth? If so, which one?
    I was not raised into any faith but atheism. My senior year of high school I took an anatomy and physiology course where what may be called the ontological argument helped change me to theism. But during the time I became a Christian I lived in a home that looked down upon religion as a whole. Both my parents had bad experiences concerning churches they were ***ociated with. When I first went to church during college, becoming a Christian was not what I was seeking. One thing I sought to be consistent with was being honest to myself.

    The lack of consistency with Mormonism is why I could never be LDS. We accept the translation of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. But in Mormonism you reject the translation of Egyptian. Then have to accept the idea of a language that outside of Joseph Smith no one has any evidence of. I have recently listed other inconsistencies as well. Pretty much everything about Mormonism rests on the shoulders of Joseph Smith. God has made it obvious to me Smith was a false teacher.

  3. #28
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    [QUOTE=Radix;169366]
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    I was not raised into any faith but atheism. My senior year of high school I took an anatomy and physiology course where what may be called the ontological argument helped change me to theism. But during the time I became a Christian I lived in a home that looked down upon religion as a whole. Both my parents had bad experiences concerning churches they were ***ociated with. When I first went to church during college, becoming a Christian was not what I was seeking. One thing I sought to be consistent with was being honest to myself.
    Thank you for letting me know how you were raised, but I was asking Radix.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post

    I was not raised into any faith but atheism. My senior year of high school I took an anatomy and physiology course where what may be called the ontological argument helped change me to theism. But during the time I became a Christian I lived in a home that looked down upon religion as a whole. Both my parents had bad experiences concerning churches they were ***ociated with. When I first went to church during college, becoming a Christian was not what I was seeking. One thing I sought to be consistent with was being honest to myself.
    Thank you for letting me know how you were raised, but I was asking Radix.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    Fourth, the Mormons do not have the golden tablets thus they cannot produce the source for the book of Mormon or any Mormon scripture nor show how the stones translated the p***ages Smith supposedly translated.
    But wait--we have the Book of Mormon and we can read what it says. We do not have to have the golden plates, right? We do not claim to have the plates, we claim and produce the actual Book of Mormon which is far more important than the actual golden plates written on by prophets of God.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    But wait--we have the Book of Mormon and we can read what it says. We do not have to have the golden plates, right? We do not claim to have the plates, we claim and produce the actual Book of Mormon which is far more important than the actual golden plates written on by prophets of God.
    How do you know Smith got it right? How do you know Smith did not change anything? How do you make sure people have not fudged some details in between Smith's translation and now?

    With the Bible we have the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Silver Scroll, and mss. dating back to the early 2nd century where we can double check to make sure other translators have not erred. You have nothing to verify anything. You simply present the book of Mormon not knowing if there are errors or not.

    That is a dangerous way to live.

    The book of Mormon cannot be more important than the golden plates for it is a mere English version of the original. It is supposed to be a copy only and if it i smore important then you are saying you have no foundation for your faith.
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  7. #32
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    phoenix posted:

    you seem to have really strong feelings about evidence and stones.

    He's not asking about 'feelings.' He is asking about REALITY. Your 'feelings' are easily misled by suggestion, too much supper, and other things.

    He merely pointed out that the supposed "stones evidence" that they presented were not really evidence of ANYTHING except that they had some 'STONES.' Not that they ever 'translated' anything OR that they were even the same rocks that joe smith stuck in his hat to find treasure or 'translate' the book of mormon. They were just. . .STONES.

    So apparently you feel that the stone tablets allegedly containing the 10 commandments, written by god's finger as mentioned in the bible, never actually existed.

    Do you make this horse-pucky up as you go? It seems that you do.

    You seem to follow the atheist / humanist motto "Unless I actually see it, I should conclude that it never existed because nothing else is evidence."

    Nobody is known to believe any idiotic thing like that except YOU. But then YOU think that a 'tummy tug' is God speaking. . .

    joey smith made up a bunch of imaginary junk, you believe it to be real, but the reality is there is STILL NO EVIDENCE (and YOU HAVE STILL NOT PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE) that ANY of his imaginary junk ever existed in REALITY.

    Not 'reformed egyptian'
    not 'nephites'
    not ONE SINGLE THING HE INVENTED IN HIS BOM.

    joey made claims. No evidence at all substantiates them. WHY should anyone believe him?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    But wait--we have the Book of Mormon and we can read what it says. We do not have to have the golden plates, right? We do not claim to have the plates, we claim and produce the actual Book of Mormon which is far more important than the actual golden plates written on by prophets of God.
    You have the book of fiction joe smith wrote. There is NOTHING TO SUBSTANTIATE that any of it was ever on any 'golden plates' in 'reformed egyptian' or that such a language EVER EXISTED IN RIAL LIFE.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Thank you for letting me know how you were raised, but I was asking Radix.
    This is Radix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    How do you know Smith got it right? How do you know Smith did not change anything? How do you make sure people have not fudged some details in between Smith's translation and now?
    Probably the same way you know Moses got it right.

    The book of Mormon cannot be more important than the golden plates for it is a mere English version of the original. It is supposed to be a copy only and if it i smore important then you are saying you have no foundation for your faith.
    Hmm, sort of like the Bible.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    You have the book of fiction joe smith wrote. There is NOTHING TO SUBSTANTIATE that any of it was ever on any 'golden plates' in 'reformed egyptian' or that such a language EVER EXISTED IN RIAL LIFE.
    That's false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post
    This is Radix.
    Oh, sorry---I thought it was Dr. David T who answered. Not sure how I saw that.

    So you were raised as an atheist?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post
    This is Radix.
    Oh, sorry---I thought it was Dr. David T who answered. Not sure how I saw that.

    So you were raised as an atheist?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Probably the same way you know Moses got it right.


    Hmm, sort of like the Bible.
    We have a m****cript record from ancient times in the original languages which anyone can learn and translate to see that Moses got it right.

    The Mormons do not and cannot study the golden plates -- no one can. and since Smith did not write the golden plates his work needs to be double checked or are you conferring infallible status upon Smith?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    That's false.
    prove it. produce the golden plates and the original language so everyone can learn it and study to see if it is tru eor not.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    The Mormons do not and cannot study the golden plates -- no one can.
    No one can study the stone tablets either, but you come up with all kinds of excuses why we don't need to. Double standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    No one can study the stone tablets either, but you come up with all kinds of excuses why we don't need to. Double standard.
    find the ark you will find the stone tablets.

    no double standard. you have no textual record prior to Smith so you have nothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    prove it. produce the golden plates and the original language so everyone can learn it and study to see if it is tru eor not.
    As soon as you produce the stone tablets, come talk to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    find the ark you will find the stone tablets.
    Then produce the ark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    As soon as you produce the stone tablets, come talk to me.
    ha ha ha. a wonderful example of being willfully deceived. you blindly trust a con man, a fallible, sinful, human being and refuse to think about your situation and how bad it is.

    The difference is, we do not claim that the 10 commandments come form Moses and the stone tablets, we say that God wrote them and God is accessible at any time and we have a record of his involvement throughout history and the lives of individual people. We know the Bible is true

    We have evidence backing up our testimony as well-- you have NOTHING and refuse to present anything that supports your blind faith. That is just being deceived and unintelligent, as well as brainwashed.

    The ***le of this thread is WHERE is the EVIDENCE... and you cannot point to one thing as evidence for why you believe. You cannot support one claim Smith made and that fact should be troubling to you. You are following and honoring a man who lied to his followers.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Then produce the ark.
    ha ha ha we do not need to, as I said, we have a rich textual history informing us of God's words. We do not need the ark anymore because of Christ's work.

    Your failure to provide one shred of evidence makes your Mormon faith false and cultic. Your dancing around the issues and making unrealistic demands only shows the depth of your deception.

    Outside of Smith's claims that there were golden plates, there is no historical reference to them or this so called true faith so until you have them all you have is th eword of a known liar.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Then produce the ark.
    ha ha ha we do not need to, as I said, we have a rich textual history informing us of God's words. We do not need the ark anymore because of Christ's work.

    Your failure to provide one shred of evidence makes your Mormon faith false and cultic. Your dancing around the issues and making unrealistic demands only shows the depth of your deception.

    Outside of Smith's claims that there were golden plates, there is no historical reference to them or this so called true faith so until you have them all you have is th eword of a known liar.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    ha ha ha. a wonderful example of being willfully deceived.
    Well, since you've resorted to personal insults, that sounds like a concession to me.

    you blindly trust a con man, a fallible, sinful, human being and refuse to think about your situation and how bad it is.
    False.

    The difference is, we do not claim that the 10 commandments come form Moses and the stone tablets, we say that God wrote them and God is accessible at any time and we have a record of his involvement throughout history and the lives of individual people. We know the Bible is true
    So do we. We also know the Book of Mormon is true.

    We have evidence backing up our testimony as well-- you have NOTHING and refuse to present anything that supports your blind faith.
    That's because I don't have blind faith! Duh!

    The ***le of this thread is WHERE is the EVIDENCE... and you cannot point to one thing as evidence for why you believe.
    Only partially true. I cannot point to any evidence that you would accept. Big difference.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    ha ha ha we do not need to, as I said, we have a rich textual history informing us of God's words. We do not need the ark anymore because of Christ's work.
    Just like we don't need the plates anymore because of Christ's work. Does your failure to provide one shred of evidence make your Protestant faith false and cultic? Does your dancing around the issues and making unrealistic demands only show the depth of your deception?

    Outside of Smith's claims that there were golden plates, there is no historical reference to them or this so called true faith
    Your statement is objectively false. At least eleven others saw the plates, and their testimony must be considered a historical reference by all rational people.

    so until you have them all you have is th eword of a known liar.
    Worthless anti-Mormon slander.

  25. #50
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    you blindly trust a con man, a fallible, sinful, human being and refuse to think about your situation and how bad it is.
    False.
    So you are saying Smith was infallible, holy, perfect and not human? Then why was he in jail for criminal acts? Jesus wasn't.

    So do we. We also know the Book of Mormon is true.
    HOW? You cannot produce one piece of evidence to support it. Even when asked. So how do you know and what evidence do you have?

    That's because I don't have blind faith! Duh!
    From everything you have said, you do. You cannot even point to one piece if physical evidence to support your claims. Where are the two civilizations and all the animals as described by Smith in the book of Mormon? If you can't produce real evidence then you have blind faith.

    Only partially true. I cannot point to any evidence that you would accept. Big difference.
    Then present it don't make my decisions for me. You are not qualified to do that. You also have not produced any biblical support for the initiation rites Mormons hold for entry into the temple.

    Just like we don't need the plates anymore because of Christ's work
    Then what was Smith restoring and why was he given the plates when Christ had completed his work 1900 years earlier? Obviously he thought Christ didn't do it as the book of Mormon has not support from Christ whatsoever nor do the other Mormon scriptures.

    Does your failure to provide one shred of evidence make your Protestant faith false and cultic?
    We have evidence, lots of it.

    Your statement is objectively false. At least eleven others saw the plates, and their testimony must be considered a historical reference by all rational people.
    Hearsay and possible conspiracy. Also biased and prejudiced testimony. We have reports from unbelievers who can read the Bible and have read it on their own. No one outside of your cult has seen or read those plates. Their testimony is worthless.

    Worthless anti-Mormon slander.
    No it is the truth.
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