Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 272

Thread: Where is the evidence that mormonism is true?

  1. #151
    dberrie2000
    Guest

    Default

    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostHis claims were faith alone theology is false--which is the claim of the Bible:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    Joseph Smith believed in faith alone--as it differentiates from the Mosaic Law--but not faith alone theology--and neither does the Biblical text:

    Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    What exactly will God reward Christians for? Works that they did as born again believers in His Son. The works of the unsaved mean nothing. They have have no reward and will be judged by Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment.

    As for James 2:24, we cannot pull out one verse and try to make a doctrine out of it. James wrote to Jews, the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad. Jews under the kingdom economy. These Jewish believers had not yet heard or understood Paul’s Gospel of Grace.

    You are making the error of using those verses that are not written to grace age Christian believers.
    Hi Hogan:

    Jesus Christ--not of the grace age? Interesting.

    Was Paul of the grace age?

    Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


    2 Corinthians 5:10--King James Version (KJV)
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

  2. #152
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Hi Hogan:

    I wasn't aware Christians divided up the Biblical NT into books that are Christian--and books that are......?

    I always considered the Biblical NT to be the Word of God--all of it. Why would Paul preach something that was not the gospel?

    Hebrews 3:1---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    Hogan--this seems to be one of the typical responses of those whose theology is violated by the scriptures--they seem to embark on a cover and cancel attempt.

    Hebrews 10:36---King James Version (KJV)
    36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

    Can you tell me to whom Hebrews was written? Who was James writing to? Who did Peter write to? Does the bible say they were Christians? YES or NO?

    Letter to the Hebrews means just that. It was written to Hebrews. (Jews)

    James 1: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes (Jews) which are scattered abroad, greeting."

    1 Peter 1: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout (Jews) the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia.."

    Yes the ENTIRE Holy Bible IS the word of God.

    dberrie, you don't need any other book(s)! Learn how to study the Bible. Get a good study bible and concordance. Study God's dealings with Israel in the OT (Covenant) and Christ's gospel of grace that Paul taught in the New Covenant.

  3. #153
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    The book of Hebrews was not written to Christians or even Gentiles. It was written to Jewish people. Some of them were believers, but a lot of them were still on the fence; they couldn’t turn their back on Judaism and the Law. They were having problems understanding that Jesus was God the Son, the Creator of everything. So Hebrews was written to lift who the Son really was. The obedience in Heb.5:9 concerning those who obey Him is not that regarding commandments, rules, and regulations. It is not obedience to the law. It is "the obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5). God wants us to obey Him by believing in Christ.

    We need to understand the purpose for the letter and to whom the letter was written. There's nothing in Hebrews about the cross. About the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Nothing about the church or the body of Christ because it wasn't written to Christians.
    The purpose of each biblical book is to instruct all people about God, history, his revelations, instructions, commands and so on. They are for all people of every culture, civilization and generation. The audience for the biblical books, including Hebrews, is the Christian for only the Christian has the Spirit of truth helping them understand what God is saying. Now not every person claiming to be a believer has the spirit of truth. There doesn't have to be anything in Hebrews about the cross, death resurrection, etc. of Jesus or about the church for God does not have t be redundant nor does he keep people at square one. There are other things God's followers need to learn so that they can grow into strong, mature spiritual adults.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  4. #154
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    Can you tell me to whom Hebrews was written? Who was James writing to? Who did Peter write to? Does the bible say they were Christians? YES or NO?

    Letter to the Hebrews means just that. It was written to Hebrews. (Jews)

    James 1: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes (Jews) which are scattered abroad, greeting."

    1 Peter 1: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout (Jews) the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia.."

    Yes the ENTIRE Holy Bible IS the word of God.

    dberrie, you don't need any other book(s)! Learn how to study the Bible. Get a good study bible and concordance. Study God's dealings with Israel in the OT (Covenant) and Christ's gospel of grace that Paul taught in the New Covenant.
    well here is one answer

    Recipients

    The letter was addressed primarily to Jewish converts who were familiar with the OT and who were being tempted to revert to Judaism or to Judaize the gospel (cf. Gal 2:14). Some have suggested that these professing Jewish Christians were thinking of merging with a Jewish sect, such as the one at Qumran near the Dead Sea. It has also been suggested that the recipients were from the "large number of priests who became obedient to the faith" (Ac 6:7).
    http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/

    Actually I will restate my previous point, Hebrews, like every other book of the Bible, was written for all believers. There is no limitation on the audience. if you think there is then you have a major problem in understanding the Bible and find yourself having no scripture to guide your life and help you grow in the Lord.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  5. #155
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    The purpose of each biblical book is to instruct all people about God, history, his revelations, instructions, commands and so on. They are for all people of every culture, civilization and generation. The audience for the biblical books, including Hebrews, is the Christian for only the Christian has the Spirit of truth helping them understand what God is saying. Now not every person claiming to be a believer has the spirit of truth. There doesn't have to be anything in Hebrews about the cross, death resurrection, etc. of Jesus or about the church for God does not have t be redundant nor does he keep people at square one. There are other things God's followers need to learn so that they can grow into strong, mature spiritual adults.
    Hi David, Absolutely the Holy Bible is to instruct all people. We can learn from every book in the Bible including the OT. However, the thing we need to understand is that letters such as Hebrews or James for example, do not mention the way of salvation. There's no "Roman Road" so to speak. Thus, when a religious group, or even some on this forum, try to defend their faith by using James to claim he taught a works theology, they are sadly mistaken. We need to be able to explain what James was actually saying to these Jews he wrote to. Did he actually tell Christians that faith without works is dead? Instead of using Paul's letters to find the way of salvation, they use these other epistles that do not mention anything about it. A common error is not knowing to whom the letter was written and the purpose for it. Yes, we Christians can glean much from James and every other book in the Bible. Its all God-breathed.

    Absolutely, one must be born again to understand the scriptures and in order to use the scriptures to witness to the lost.

  6. #156
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    well here is one answer



    http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/

    Actually I will restate my previous point, Hebrews, like every other book of the Bible, was written for all believers. There is no limitation on the audience. if you think there is then you have a major problem in understanding the Bible and find yourself having no scripture to guide your life and help you grow in the Lord.
    Hi David, I was asking these questions to dberrie. But nice to hear from you. You seem to be misunderstanding my point. I never said there was a limitation on the audience. Yes, the Holy Bible was written for all believers. Hebrews was not directed to the Church but, rather it’s directed to Jewish believers many of whom were still on the fence and not quite able to break from Judaism and law keeping, etc. I was explaining to someone on here that there's no church language in Hebrews or the way to salvation. This is not a letter one uses to show salvation by faith. Rather the author is trying to convince these Jewish believers who Jesus Christ really is: God the Son.
    Last edited by hogan60; 02-18-2017 at 05:10 AM.

  7. #157
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    When is earth going to experience the res***ution of all things? (Acts 3:21) During the Tribulation when the curse will be lifted. This earth is going to be restored to its original condition in the Garden of Eden before sin entered.

  8. #158
    dberrie2000
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    When is earth going to experience the res***ution of all things? (Acts 3:21)
    Hello Hogan:

    It does not identify the exact time--only that it is a future event--and one involving Jesus Christ, possibly--such as the "first vision".

  9. #159
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    Hi David, Absolutely the Holy Bible is to instruct all people. We can learn from every book in the Bible including the OT. However, the thing we need to understand is that letters such as Hebrews or James for example, do not mention the way of salvation. There's no "Roman Road" so to speak. Thus, when a religious group, or even some on this forum, try to defend their faith by using James to claim he taught a works theology, they are sadly mistaken. We need to be able to explain what James was actually saying to these Jews he wrote to. Did he actually tell Christians that faith without works is dead? Instead of using Paul's letters to find the way of salvation, they use these other epistles that do not mention anything about it. A common error is not knowing to whom the letter was written and the purpose for it. Yes, we Christians can glean much from James and every other book in the Bible. Its all God-breathed.

    Absolutely, one must be born again to understand the scriptures and in order to use the scriptures to witness to the lost.
    Again, both James and Hebrews, along with any other book of the Bible do not need nor have to have any mentioning of salvation. God wants his people to go beyond square one as they need to grow and mature in their faith. No we do not need to explain that because James was speaking to everyone not just the Jews.Anyone will use any part of the Bible to justify their alternative beliefs, James and Hebrews are not exceptional in this.

    Again, the audience is all beievers not just the Jews and the purpose is to make sure all believers get on the right path, hold the right beliefs that help them grow in their faith in Jesus.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  10. #160
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    Hi David, I was asking these questions to dberrie. But nice to hear from you. You seem to be misunderstanding my point. I never said there was a limitation on the audience. Yes, the Holy Bible was written for all believers. Hebrews was not directed to the Church but, rather it’s directed to Jewish believers many of whom were still on the fence and not quite able to break from Judaism and law keeping, etc. I was explaining to someone on here that there's no church language in Hebrews or the way to salvation. This is not a letter one uses to show salvation by faith. Rather the author is trying to convince these Jewish believers who Jesus Christ really is: God the Son.
    I know you were but I am allowed to participate if I so choose. Actually, your wording indicates a limitation on the audience and allows for people to dismiss the different books of the Bible because 'they were not addressed to them.' We have 'fence sitters' today as well. You can by using Hebrews 11. Evangelism is not the only duty of the church member.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  11. #161
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    Again, both James and Hebrews, along with any other book of the Bible do not need nor have to have any mentioning of salvation. God wants his people to go beyond square one as they need to grow and mature in their faith. No we do not need to explain that because James was speaking to everyone not just the Jews.Anyone will use any part of the Bible to justify their alternative beliefs, James and Hebrews are not exceptional in this.

    Again, the audience is all beievers not just the Jews and the purpose is to make sure all believers get on the right path, hold the right beliefs that help them grow in their faith in Jesus.
    You still are misunderstanding my point. When I say there's no plan of salvation in Hebrews or James, I mean we do not use those when witnessing to the lost. Rather we use scriptures such as Romans or Galatians. I never said throw out Hebrews and James. No, ALL scripture is profitable for reproof, correction, etc.

  12. #162
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    You still are misunderstanding my point. When I say there's no plan of salvation in Hebrews or James, I mean we do not use those when witnessing to the lost. Rather we use scriptures such as Romans or Galatians. I never said throw out Hebrews and James. No, ALL scripture is profitable for reproof, correction, etc.
    But again we have no instruction to use every book of the Bible to explain the way of salvation.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  13. #163
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    But again we have no instruction to use every book of the Bible to explain the way of salvation.
    Hi David, Christ's Gospel is a simple Gospel that even a child can understand it and find salvation. Sadly, there are many who have been drawn to another gospel which is a false one that leads to everlasting condemnation. These adherents of this false gospel often will use the same scriptures over and over to try to make their case or doctrine. They go to the same verses in James or Hebrews for example to explain why they believe "works" is necessary for salvation. The point I was making is that the way to salvation is NOT in those verses. I point out Paul/s writings on grace and faith in Jesus Christ alone.

    Do I ever use Hebrews and James in other discussions? Absolutely.

  14. #164
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    Hi David, Christ's Gospel is a simple Gospel that even a child can understand it and find salvation. Sadly, there are many who have been drawn to another gospel which is a false one that leads to everlasting condemnation. These adherents of this false gospel often will use the same scriptures over and over to try to make their case or doctrine. They go to the same verses in James or Hebrews for example to explain why they believe "works" is necessary for salvation. The point I was making is that the way to salvation is NOT in those verses. I point out Paul/s writings on grace and faith in Jesus Christ alone.

    Do I ever use Hebrews and James in other discussions? Absolutely.
    Why are you talking to me like I do not know anything? I pointed out a couple of points and you do not seem to grasp that concept.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  15. #165
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Hogan-- this thread is about evidence for the Mormon faith. Please stick to the topic. Do you have any links that provide evidence for the Mormon cult?
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  16. #166
    dberrie2000
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    Hogan-- this thread is about evidence for the Mormon faith. Please stick to the topic. Do you have any links that provide evidence for the Mormon cult?
    There seems to be quite a bit of evidence for the LDS church:

    D&C 110

    1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
    2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
    3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
    4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
    5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
    6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
    7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
    8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
    9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
    10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
    11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
    12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
    13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
    14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
    15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
    16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

  17. #167
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    There seems to be quite a bit of evidence for the LDS church:

    D&C 110

    1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
    2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
    3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
    4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
    5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
    6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
    7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
    8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
    9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
    10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
    11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
    12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
    13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
    14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
    15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
    16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
    that is not evidence, maybe you need to take a cl*** on what is actual evidence.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  18. #168
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    be brave learn to read things that go contrary to mormon ideology
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  19. #169
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    Hogan-- this thread is about evidence for the Mormon faith. Please stick to the topic. Do you have any links that provide evidence for the Mormon cult?
    Hi David, I don't use links. the internet has a lot of errors and untruths which can be confusing. I have the Holy Bible as my source for Truth. I believe in witnessing to the lost in love. I don't really see that happening on here. What I do see is a lot of arguing, debate, anger and criticism. I don't know of anyone who ever got saved through such tactics. They really don't work.

    What brought you to this site and the Mormonism forum in particular?

  20. #170
    dberrie2000
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    be brave learn to read things that go contrary to mormon ideology
    Hi David:

    You still have not engaged my challenge--and list for us what you find in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church, as far as salvational doctrines go.

    Galatians 6:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
    7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
    8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
    9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

  21. #171
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    Hi David, I don't use links. the internet has a lot of errors and untruths which can be confusing. I have the Holy Bible as my source for Truth. I believe in witnessing to the lost in love. I don't really see that happening on here. What I do see is a lot of arguing, debate, anger and criticism. I don't know of anyone who ever got saved through such tactics. They really don't work.

    What brought you to this site and the Mormonism forum in particular?
    This is a discussion forum not a street preaching outlet.

    That is none of your business. and stay on topic.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  22. #172
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    This is a discussion forum not a street preaching outlet.

    ......
    well....over the years, we have seen a few preachers stop by the forum...

  23. #173
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    This is a discussion forum not a street preaching outlet.

    That is none of your business. and stay on topic.
    So you're not here to witness to Mormons.

  24. #174
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View Post
    So you're not here to witness to Mormons.
    Im not....

    I really dont care for any of the Mormon topics.
    Im not really the "Mormon answer guy"

    I dont come to this forum to change anyone's mind,
    Rather I enjoy being asked questions as it helps me dig deeper into what I believe and why i believe it.

    I dont really ask too many questions because I have always doubted the usefulness of the answers I get here.,....

  25. #175
    hogan60
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Im not....

    I really dont care for any of the Mormon topics.
    Im not really the "Mormon answer guy"

    I dont come to this forum to change anyone's mind,
    Rather I enjoy being asked questions as it helps me dig deeper into what I believe and why i believe it.

    I dont really ask too many questions because I have always doubted the usefulness of the answers I get here.,....
    Ok that's cool.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •