Which of the 150+ mormonisms

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Ha HA Ha tell the full story, the revelation came when statehood was on the line.

And?

But since the Bible tells us that God and his ways do not change why would God suddenly change what he wanted his church to follow?

So does your church follow the Law of Moses, or did God suddenly change what he wanted his church to follow?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

check the dates, 41 years after they started trying fir statehood the mormons decided a revelation was in order.

Have you ever heard of the logical fallacy called post hoc ergo propter hoc?

[alanmolstad]

Have you ever heard of. ..If it looks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck. ..it's a duck...

?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

And?


So does your church follow the Law of Moses, or did God suddenly change what he wanted his church to follow?

you really do not know the Bible if you have to ask that question. Much of the OT laws are given in the NT but worded differently. For example oe of the commandments thou shalt no bear false witness is changed to do not lie to one another (Phil.)

another is thou shalt not have other gods before me is written in the NT as love the Lord your God with all thy heart soul and mind The church actually is supposed to follow a lot of the laws of Moses.

God doesn't change nor do his instructions.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Have you ever heard of the logical fallacy called post hoc ergo propter hoc?

here is a link to a master list of logical fallacies, feel free to search it and provide the right definition for your supposed logical fallacy

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamso.../fallacies.htm

but i did not commit a logical fallacy but provided the evidence to support my statement.

[Christian]

Bump for erundur

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

God doesn't change nor do his instructions.

Then you need to follow them:

Exodus 29:20-21--King James Version (KJV)

20 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
21 And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then you need to follow them:

Exodus 29:20-21--King James Version (KJV)

20 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
21 And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.

and WHO was God instructing, FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

OH that's right. God was instructing MOSES on how to ordain AARON (YOUR pretended 'aaronic priests' don't get THAT ordination, DO THEY? All YOURS get is YOUR bozos laying hands on the kids).

God's instruction to MOSES and AARON remain the same. They were NOT THINGS FOR THE WHOLE CHURCH TO DO.

BTW, we are NOT under the OT Law any more.

CHRIST'S church has died to the law and is alive in CHRIST instead.

Gal 2:19-21
9 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
NKJV

Your cult teaches you to live under rules, laws, and 'ordinances,' but Jesus does not.

[Christian]

bump for berrie

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000ff]and WHO was God instructing, FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

OH that's right. God was instructing MOSES on how to ordain AARON (YOUR pretended 'aaronic priests' don't get THAT ordination, DO THEY? All YOURS get is YOUR bozos laying hands on the kids).

God's instruction to MOSES and AARON remain the same. They were NOT THINGS FOR THE WHOLE CHURCH TO DO.

BTW, we are NOT under the OT Law any more.

Then there was a change:

Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post God doesn't change nor do his instructions.

Hebrews 7:12----King James Version (KJV)
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then there was a change:



Hebrews 7:12----King James Version (KJV)
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Nonsense.

The fact that God changes how He treats us in response to our choices has nothing to do with His character. Because God is Just, and He does not change by Nature and Being, He must treat the righteous differently from the unrighteous. If someone repents, God consistently forgives; if someone refuses to repent, God consistently judges. He is unchanging in His Nature and His being and that's what it means when we say God is unchanging.

God will sometimes act in accordance with our choices, but His over-all plan for mankind never changes: “If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions’” (Jeremiah 18:7– 11).

The Mormon god on the other hand, is constantly changing and working to improve.

But there is still time for you to repent, DBerrie, and turn from idol worship, false prophets and trolling Christian forums, to having faith alone in Jesus Christ.

[Christian]

Erunder posted:

[QUOTE]you just ***UME ITS GOTTA BEEE because after all YOU are in it.

No HONEST reason to believe yours is 'the one' in any way from you.
Your flippant DISMISSAL is noted.[/QUOTE

Until you can come up with SOMETHING MORE than JUST YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION, dismissal is appropriate.

STILL no reason for ANY mormon to believe YOUR branch of mormonism is 'the right one' OR the 'original one.'

NOTHING BUT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION with NOTHING to support it but more of your personal opinion.

In other words, your OPINION is baseless, with no merit; with no substance in reality.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Erunder

You misspelled "I" (which is quite an accomplishment).

[Berean]

I posted the following already but a quick notice said that it would be posted after a mod looks at it. I may have posted too many links. So I'll try again and hope it doesn't show up again later..

These stories are practically identical to the story of Joseph Smith. The Mormons accept and believe Smith's story. Why would they reject the similar claims of these subsequent Mormon prophets? As one of them (Matthew Gill) commented, it is a difficult problem for mainstream Mormons: they will believe Smith, but not someone who makes similar claims and who produces similar evidences of divine calling.

Following is a summary of the claims of the most prominent of these Mormon prophets, with their websites. Almost all recognize Joseph Smith as having been a true prophet, although some claim that he "fell." Almost all have produced revelations and scriptures. Almost all were at one time devout members of the Mormon church, but have established churches of their own, believing that the main church is in apostasy.

And each one, of course, claims that all the others are false and deluded.

They are listed in no particular order below.

---

JAMES J. STRANG - Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Divine Call: Strang (1813-1856) had a letter from Joseph Smith appointing him Smith's successor, confirmed by angelic visitors at the moment of Smith's death
Scriptures: translation of the Voree Plates, an ancient record on metal plates discoverd buried in Voree, Wisconsin, written by an ancient prophet Rajah Manchou of Vorito
The Book of the Law of the Lord, translated by divine power from the Plates of Laban mentioned in the Book of Mormon
Distinctive Doctrines: Strangites believe in the Gathering, in seventh-day worship, sacrificial ordinances, include women in some offices of the priesthood, practice baptism for the dead, an endowment ceremony similar to that practiced by pre-Nauvoo Mormons, and believe in Eternal Marriage. Historically, some members of the church practiced plural marriage, including James

KEN ASAY - Church of Jesus Christ in Zion
Divine Call: established 1984; Asay claimed to be the reincarnation of Joseph Smith.
Distinctive Doctrines: There is no organization; each family is a "church": anyone who can testify of Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Ghost is a "prophet".

CHRISTOPHER MARK NEMELKA - Worldwide United Foundation
Divine Call: appearance to him (1987) in the Salt Lake Temple of Joseph Smith and Nemelka's deceased grandfather; later given the gold plates and the Urim and Thummim
Scriptures: The Sealed Portion: The Final Testament of Jesus Christ (includes The Lost Book of Lehi, i.e. the 116 pages of the original Book of Mormon m****cript, lost by Martin Harris) at
Distinctive Doctrines: Nemelka is the reincarnation of Hyrum Smith; he possesses the Gold Plates and the Urim and Thummim.
Notes: Nemelka has been accused of admitting that his story is false, and has been involved in litigation over his claims.

MATTHEW GILL - The Latter Day Church of Jesus Christ
Divine Call: received 24 br*** plates from God in 2006, which he translated as the Book of Jeraneck; accepted by his followers as a prophet, seer and revelator
Scriptures: Book of Jeraneck (not available online, only for purchase), Gill's revelations in Book of Prophecy and Revelation
Distinctive Doctrines: accepts the Book of Mormon (1830 edition), Joseph Smith Translation of Bible, many apocryphal books of early Christianity; Joseph Smith was the last true prophet; Gill is his successor; Stonehenge was a Christian temple; early Britons were Christian
Notes:Church is based in England, organized 2007

MORE HERE

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Christian

phoenix posted:

In heaven, I think we will all be united, not Balkanized. Paul wrote about his belief that Christ wanted His church to have apostles, prophets, pastors, etc. until we are all united and perfect in our faith and mature understanding of the gospel.
I share that hope.

Paul never once said he wanted any such thing. Perhaps if you REALLY think he did, you could provide us with the chapter and verse of the place where you think he did so?

But my question for you was based on the logical presumption that you must believe that the group you're currently in is closer in doctrine to Christ's original church than any other group, because if you thought some other group was closer, it would be stupid to remain in one that you believed to have LESS of the correct teachings.

Even more rationalization. You presume too much. The fact that the group I'm currently in is JUST AS CLOSE as other groups are to the original (as recorded in the Bible) church is just fine with me.

Your method of reasoning is FAR DIFFERENT from the method of reasoning I think with. To me, it is NOT a game of compe***ion to prove 'what is best amongst many.' I could care less about such stuff.

My interest is in believing everything that GOD (not joe smith, martin luther, the pope, or steve martin) wants me to believe and understand about HIM and how HE wants ME to SERVE AND LOVE HIM.

YOUR RELIGION claims to be the ONLY RIGHT religion. I am merely pointing out that your religion has no EVIDENCE to support its claim and does NOT IN FACT match the teachings and beliefs of CHRIST'S first century church at all. ALL of the 'mormon-specific' junk that joe smith introduced is nothing more than man-invented junk; not from God at all.

If the baptist church was created from a schismatic break from the Catholic Church that kicked Martin Luther out, then your church is just as much a break-off as you claim the LDS church is. Am I wrong?

The TRUTH is that my Baptist church has never had ANY RELATIONSHIP to the rcc.

You, like the catholics, joe smith and others seem to thin Jesus built a social/financial/religious/political ins***ution; He did not. He built a CHURCH. . .BY DEFINITION, a CONGREGATION. NOT a 'religious denomination' or 'organization' or social/political/religious/financial ins***ution.'

When you can find SOMETHING that my church is not doing that it should, or is doing that it shouldn't ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, please show me and I will change. I won't ask that you change when your organization is shown BIBLICALLY to be wrong (like teaching that polytheism is from God since it is not). But if you can SHOW ME SCRIPTURE that says my Conservative Baptist church is teaching/practicing falsely, I want to know. . .I will change if the Bible calls for me to do so. My only interest is in Serving and Loving the Lord and Christ's (the REAL Christ, not any of the false christs) brethren.

What is YOUR interest in these matters?

bump for phoenix