Why hasn't the angel moroni returned

[DrDavidT]

to verify any of Smith's claims?

Why has he left the mormons on their own and not provided any verification for Smith's claims?

Why does he leave people to blindly accept a known con man's word that he appeared to him?

His absence speaks volumes.

Then before the Mormons get on here and claim that God of the bible does not send angels to his people, I should forewarn them that he does and many missionaries have experienced their protection. I remember one true story where the natives were going to attack a missionary and his family. The missionaries waited all night to be killed, yet the natives did not attack.

Only later did the chief explain why they did not attack. He asked who were those men in white sitting on the missionaries' roof?

So if moroni was real...

[DrDavidT]

so the mormons do not have an answer for this one either.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

I remember one true story where the natives were going to attack a missionary and his family. The missionaries waited all night to be killed, yet the natives did not attack.

Only later did the chief explain why they did not attack. He asked who were those men in white sitting on the missionaries' roof?

A pair of LDS missionaries were going to visit a family when they were confronted by a group of intoxicated construction workers looking to pick a fight. As the missionaries braced to get beat up, the workers looked up into the air above the missionaries, then quickly apologized and went back to their work. The Lord sent an angel to protect them.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

A pair of LDS missionaries were going to visit a family when they were confronted by a group of intoxicated construction workers looking to pick a fight. As the missionaries braced to get beat up, the workers looked up into the air above the missionaries, then quickly apologized and went back to their work. The Lord sent an angel to protect them.

Typical mormon ****, stealing from others then claiming it as their own.

still not an answer for why moroni did not appear to someone else. why was smith so special?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Typical mormon ****, stealing from others then claiming it as their own.

LOL, you can't show that my anecdote is any less valid than yours, or that yours wasn't stolen from someone else.

still not an answer for why moroni did not appear to someone else.

Explain why it has to be Moroni, not just any angel as in your anecdote.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

LOL, you can't show that my anecdote is any less valid than yours, or that yours wasn't stolen from someone else.


Explain why it has to be Moroni, not just any angel as in your anecdote.

Just asking for confirmation of Smith's claim. Any angel will not do.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Just asking for confirmation of Smith's claim. Any angel will not do.

Explain why any angel will do in your case, but not mine.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Explain why any angel will do in your case, but not mine.

because we don't claim an angel with a specific name came to a human named Jesus and told him to start or restore a religion. We experience Jesus when we repent of our sins and he redeems us, something you can experience as well. NO ONE but Smith saw the angel,Moroni, no one but Smith can experience him and no one can repent of their sins and be redeemed by Moroni thereby experiencing him. Thus you cannot have confirmation that Moroni exists unless he comes back and shows he actually exists.

After Jesus' death many people saw Jesus alive and resurrected, nothing like that happened with Moroni. Oh and no one else but Smith knows of this supposed religion that was to be restored. No church father, no ancient writer secular or otherwise including Josephus and Philo,--- no one. So if these points do not make you reconsider your beliefs then I do not know what will.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

because we don't claim an angel with a specific name came to a human named Jesus and told him to start or restore a religion.

And neither do the LDS. And????

We experience Jesus when we repent of our sins and he redeems us,

Such as here?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If that's true--then faith alone theology is false.

NO ONE but Smith saw the angel,Moroni,

Just a note here--there were numerous heavenly manifestations during the time of Joseph Smith--with a number of witnesses:

D&C 110

1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.

2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.

3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:

4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.

5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.

6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.

7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.

8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.

9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.

10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.

11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.

12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.

13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:

14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—

15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—

16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

because we don't claim an angel with a specific name came to a human named Jesus and told him to start or restore a religion.

Neither do we. Still looks like a double standard to me.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Neither do we. Still looks like a double standard to me.

Mormons claim to follow the Bible but they lie like anything when it suits them and disobey its teachings whenever they feel like it

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1990/08/m...smith?lang=eng

With Moroni’s appearance to seventeen-year-old Joseph Smith on 21 September 1823, the Lord began to educate the Prophet in preparation for the restoration of the gospel. The Nephite prophet Moroni, as the last prophet of the Lehite dispensation and the final author, compiler, and caretaker of the Nephite record, was appropriately chosen to serve as young Joseph Smith’s tutor.

https://www.lds.org/media-library/im...29546?lang=eng

Moroni Appears to Joseph Smith in His Room (The Angel Moroni Appears to Joseph Smith), by Tom Lovell (62492); GAK 404; GAB 91; Primary manual 3-32; Primary manual 4-55; Primary manual 5-08; Joseph Smith—History 1:27–47

https://www.lds.org/manual/the-pearl...smith?lang=eng

The prophet Moroni, the last writer in the Book of Mormon, appeared as a glorified, resurrected being to Joseph Smith. He told Joseph about a book buried in a hill near the Smith farm, written on gold plates and containing the fulness of the gospel

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/01/m...tutor?lang=eng

In a period of seven years (1823–1829), Moroni appeared to his young pupil many times. A review of those visits can show us much about how Joseph was taught.

Those are just some of the LDS sites saying the same thing.

[DrDavidT]

P.S Of course they do not teach that an angel came to Jesus because they teach that an angel came to Smith The mormons ability to miss the point is astounding.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Mormons claim to follow the Bible but they lie like anything when it suits them and disobey its teachings whenever they feel like it

Worthless anti-Mormon hate-rhetoric. Still no reason why Moroni is required to return.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

P.S Of course they do not teach that an angel came to Jesus because they teach that an angel came to Smith The mormons ability to miss the point is astounding.

Then dumb it down for us. What was the point you were trying to make?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Worthless anti-Mormon hate-rhetoric. Still no reason why Moroni is required to return.

No not worthless but right to the heart of the matter. I have given you a reason you just ignore it

There was a video on youtube some years back showing how Mormons are taught to evade questions and it seems they are taught to evade damaging points to their cultic belief.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Then dumb it down for us. What was the point you were trying to make?

There is no need to dumb it down. If it is over your head and you cannot be honest in your part of the discussion then you should not be discussing anything.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

There is no need to dumb it down. If it is over your head and you cannot be honest in your part of the discussion then you should not be discussing anything.

That does not answer the question. What is the point of your thread?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That does not answer the question. What is the point of your thread?

Prove Moroni exists and visited Smith. All we have is his word for the visitation, no one else saw him or heard him so the onus is on you to prove the events actually took place and that Moroni exists

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Prove Moroni exists and visited Smith. All we have is his word for the visitation, no one else saw him or heard him...

So--have you ever seen Jesus Christ?

That's why it's called faith.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--have you ever seen Jesus Christ?

That's why it's called faith.

You are not reading my posts very well. I already addressed this

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

There is no need to dumb it down.

Then restate it.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post Prove Moroni exists and visited Smith. All we have is his word for the visitation, no one else saw him or heard him...

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post So--have you ever seen Jesus Christ?

That's why it's called faith.

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

You are not reading my posts very well. I already addressed this

This seems to run alone the same line of the retorts which have nothing significant to offer in response to the posts.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Then restate it.

No. You are just a typical Mormon who wastes everybody's time with your excuses, avoidance and failure to be be honest. You can't even allow yourselves to see the weakness of the Mormon cult's beliefs and question why you believe such a fairy tale, one that ha sno ancient foundation or support. You blindly take the words of a dead man based upon the teachings of those who are not even acceptable to their god.

How pathetic.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

This seems to run alone the same line of the retorts which have nothing significant to offer in response to the posts.

My response is the same as it was in the previous post

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

No.

Then I accept your concession.