Golden Plates- An interesting point

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

1. prove it

We have a portion of the Original M****cript, which was translated directly from the plates, and the Printers M****cript which was copied from the OM.

2. haven't tried

Neither have we.

3. the origin of their religious writings. we have mss, fragments a rich textual history, you have nothing

I don't know what you're talking about. Our church most certainly does teach about the origin of our scriptures.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

We have a portion of the Original M****cript, which was translated directly from the plates, and the Printers M****cript which was copied from the OM.


Neither have we.


I don't know what you're talking about. Our church most certainly does teach about the origin of our scriptures.

of course you do not know what I am talking about, you do not study or do real research. how do you know it is the original m****cript and how do you know it is without errors when you cannot compare that with the golden plates

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

how do you know it is the original m****cript

The historical record. How do you know it isn't?

and how do you know it is without errors when you cannot compare that with the golden plates

I don't, of course. I ***ume it does have errors.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

The historical record. How do you know it isn't?


I don't, of course. I ***ume it does have errors.

What I have learned from discussing with mormons is that they cannot discuss and have the need to alter the topic. The do so in order to avoid dealing with the reality that thy do not have the true religion.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

What I have learned from discussing with mormons is that they cannot discuss and have the need to alter the topic. The do so in order to avoid dealing with the reality that thy do not have the true religion.

I am still waiting for that Mormon's list of support for the comment that "most Christians" that would call my post on the trinity as 'suspect".....

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

What I have learned from discussing with mormons is that they cannot discuss and have the need to alter the topic. The do so in order to avoid dealing with the reality that thy do not have the true religion.

Hi David:

Could you give us some examples of what you feel is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church?

Philippians 2:12---King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I am still waiting for that Mormon's list of support for the comment that "most Christians" that would call my post on the trinity as 'suspect".....

I am waiting for them to learn how to do research and discuss properly

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

Could you give us some examples of what you feel is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church?

Philippians 2:12---King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

this is a thread on the golden plates why not produce them so the whole world can see that they are real and the mormon faith is the true religion?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi David:

Could you give us some examples of what you feel is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church?

Philippians 2:12---King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

this is a thread on the golden plates why not produce them so the whole world can see that they are real and the mormon faith is the true religion?

Hi David:

A religion that demands proof of everything before belief is really not a religion of faith--is it?

Hebrews 11:1---King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

A religion that demands proof of everything before belief is really not a religion of faith--is it?

Hebrews 11:1---King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

physical evidence supports faith and helps demonstrate that people are believing the correct teachings. Mormons do not have any physical evidence supporting their 'faith', they are people who are fooled.

[DrDavidT]

duplicate post

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

physical evidence supports faith and helps demonstrate that people are believing the correct teachings. Mormons do not have any physical evidence supporting their 'faith', they are people who are fooled.

They have the witness of the scriptures:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

They have the witness of the scriptures:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

every religion has works and their own scriptures, so you got nothing special there

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post physical evidence supports faith and helps demonstrate that people are believing the correct teachings. Mormons do not have any physical evidence supporting their 'faith', they are people who are fooled.

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post They have the witness of the scriptures:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

every religion has works and their own scriptures, so you got nothing special there

Hi David:

The witness of the Bible is something special, for the LDS. It's even more special when one believes the witness the Biblical text bears testimony to:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

The witness of the Bible is something special, for the LDS. It's even more special when one believes the witness the Biblical text bears testimony to:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Yet Smith claimed it was translated wrong so which Bible are you using? Then how do you explain the contradictions between the Bible and mormon religious writings?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

The witness of the Bible is something special, for the LDS. It's even more special when one believes the witness the Biblical text bears testimony to:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Jesus never said to stop drinking coffee, tea, soft drinks etc., and he never instructed anyone to wear magic underwear.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi David:

The witness of the Bible is something special, for the LDS. It's even more special when one believes the witness the Biblical text bears testimony to:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Yet Smith claimed it was translated wrong so which Bible are you using?

Hi David:

The Bible is canonized scripture in the LDS church--and the KJV it's official translation.

Care to address the above scripture?

Then how do you explain the contradictions between the Bible and mormon religious writings?

Such as?

David--I have asked you to address both sides of the debate--IE--how do you fit the posted scriptures into faith alone theology--and what do you find in the Biblical NT text--which isn't found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

You have refused to engage either, opting rather--to erect straw man arguments.

Care to address the above scripture--and how it fits faith alone theology?

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[DrDavidT]

like I said, Jesus never commanded anyone to stop drinking coffee, tea and other things so which version are you using for it is not the KJV. Jesus never taught his followers to use magic underwear or that satan was his brother so what version of the Bible are you using? it is not the KJV

[DrDavidT]

Care to address the above scripture-

No I do not care to address those p***ages because I am not talking about those p***ages of scripture and you bring them in to derail the thread. I am talking about specific Mormon teachings that Jesus did not teach.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

No I do not care to address those p***ages because ....

Hi David:

That seems to be the position of those whose theology is violated by the posted scriptures. Those scriptures fit LDS theology just fine.

David--I noticed you did not engage any of the scriptures posted--nor offer any of your own.

Should we not use the Bible in our discussions?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

That seems to be the position of those whose theology is violated by the posted scriptures. Those scriptures fit LDS theology just fine.

David--I noticed you did not engage any of the scriptures posted--nor offer any of your own.

Should we not use the Bible in our discussions?

Again, I do not address those scriptures because you do not understand them and you misuse them. Point out the scriptures which address the topic and what I have mentioned until then you won't get me to play along

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

That seems to be the position of those whose theology is violated by the posted scriptures. Those scriptures fit LDS theology just fine.

David--I noticed you did not engage any of the scriptures posted--nor offer any of your own.

Should we not use the Bible in our discussions?

P.S. anyone can cherry pick scripture and claim it fits in with their cultic ideology. It is done all the time.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

P.S. anyone can cherry pick scripture and claim it fits in with their cultic ideology. It is done all the time.

What seems to me to be done all the time--is label scriptures which defies one theology--as "cherry pick".

What I don't find in your posts--is any meaningful discussion of the posted scriptures, or any use of the Biblical text. Why shouldn't we use the Bible as our standard--and use it to establish the truth?

Acts 22:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What seems to me to be done all the time--is label scriptures which defies one theology--as "cherry pick".

What I don't find in your posts--is any meaningful discussion of the posted scriptures, or any use of the Biblical text. Why shouldn't we use the Bible as our standard--and use it to establish the truth?

Acts 22:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

that scripture hasnothing to do with the topic or the questions I raised. Why are you so afraid to discuss those questions and provide KJV verses to support mormon ideology on those topics?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

that scripture hasnothing to do with the topic or the questions I raised. Why are you so afraid to discuss those questions and provide KJV verses to support mormon ideology on those topics?

Again--what do you find in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church, as far as salvational doctrines go?