Biblical Mormonism

[dberrie2000]

Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[alanmolstad]

Jesus never tried to sex-up a young girl by telling her that it would guarantee the future of her mom and dad's salvation.

[alanmolstad]

Jesus never tried to sex-up a young girl by telling her that it would guarantee the future of her mom and dad's salvation.



"Newel K. Whitney, Sarah Ann's father was promised by Smith to receive "eternal life to all your house, both old and young," by having Sarah Ann marry him.[51]

He told Helen Mar Kimball in front of her father, Heber C. Kimball, that: "If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father's household & all of your kindred."[52]

Helen Mar felt pressure to do this even though she didn't want to because "the salvation of our whole family depended on it.

"[53] Lucy Walker, like the other two girls was told by Smith that by marrying him, "that it would prove an everlasting blessing to my father's house." But after several hesitations, Lucy was informed of the other side of Smith's sealing power. He told her that rejecting his offer would bring eternal ****ation. Of his marriage proposal to her, Smith said: "It is a command of God to you .. If you reject this message the gate will be closed forever against you."[54]

Flora Ann Woodworth may have also been persuaded by her parents Lucien and Phebe Woodworth, "to marry [Smith] to secure her family's salvation."[55]"






in Mormonism this teaching is called Holy and the person that came up with the idea is called a "Prophet"

Im a Christian,and I call such ideas crazy....and I call the people that spread such ideas "Monsters"

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

You are worshiping the wrong god. . .a god amongst many gods you think exist instead of the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE, EVER Who speaks to us in Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc.

Following the wrong gods will lead you to Hell.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Christian

You are worshiping the wrong god. . .a god amongst many gods you think exist instead of the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE, EVER Who speaks to us in Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc.

Following the wrong gods will lead you to Hell.

Christian, I have a question about the Mormons that you might be able to help me with...

As you have pointed out, in the recorded history of the acts of Joe Smith (the Mormon Prophet) we find that some of the parents of young girls would agree to allow their daughter to sleep with Joe Smith as it would mean the ***ured salvation for the family and many blessings.

So this idea of pimping-out your daughter as a means to get salvation as taught by the Mormon founder, doyou find that when you show current members of the Mormon church this type of well-known history of what they were doing back then is shocking to the Mormons when they learn it?....or do they tend to pull the blinders over their eyes to such information?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus never tried to sex-up a young girl by telling her that it would guarantee the future of her mom and dad's salvation.

And where do we find any of that, as salvational doctrines--in the Biblical NT?

Care to address the scriptures?

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus never tried to sex-up a young girl by telling her that it would guarantee the future of her mom and dad's salvation.

"Newel K. Whitney, Sarah Ann's father was promised by Smith to receive "eternal life to all your house, both old and young," by having Sarah Ann marry him.[51]

He told Helen Mar Kimball in front of her father, Heber C. Kimball, that: "If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father's household & all of your kindred."[52]

Helen Mar felt pressure to do this even though she didn't want to because "the salvation of our whole family depended on it.

"[53] Lucy Walker, like the other two girls was told by Smith that by marrying him, "that it would prove an everlasting blessing to my father's house." But after several hesitations, Lucy was informed of the other side of Smith's sealing power. He told her that rejecting his offer would bring eternal ****ation. Of his marriage proposal to her, Smith said: "It is a command of God to you .. If you reject this message the gate will be closed forever against you."[54]

Flora Ann Woodworth may have also been persuaded by her parents Lucien and Phebe Woodworth, "to marry [Smith] to secure her family's salvation."[55]"


in Mormonism this teaching is called Holy and the person that came up with the idea is called a "Prophet"

Im a Christian,and I call such ideas crazy....and I call the people that spread such ideas "Monsters"

Alan--the OP is a challenge to find something in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church.

Here is something not found in any faith alone theology:

Matthew 19:16-19----King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Care to address the Biblical scriptures?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Originally Posted by Christian

You are worshiping the wrong god. . .a god amongst many gods you think exist instead of the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE, EVER Who speaks to us in Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc.

Following the wrong gods will lead you to Hell.

That seems to be one of the usual retorts whenever scriptures are posted that defy faith alone theology--or one is challenged to ante up the goods--and they realize they are unable to do so.

Christian--the challenge is to post scriptures showing salvational doctrines which are found in the Biblical text--and not found in the LDS church--and if one were able to do so--their fingers would be stomping down on the keys so hard and fast, the keyboard would appear as a rice paddy just trampled through by a herd of cape buffalo.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus never tried to sex-up a young girl by telling her that it would guarantee the future of her mom and dad's salvation.

on the other hand, if the Mormon founder and Prophet Smith was correct and that all these young girls that he talked into having sex with him did actually ***ure their whole family's salvation as he claimed, then in that case we really cant condemn the fathers who pimped-out their own daughters to him...


I guess it all depends on if the Mormon Prophet was right about that way to gain salvation or not?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I guess it all depends on if the Mormon Prophet was right about that way to gain salvation or not?

He might have had some allies:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[DrDavidT]

There is no such thing as biblical mormonism/ the mormon cult does not follow the bible and since smith edited it to fit his ideas the mormons do not have a clue how far from being biblical they are.

[DrDavidT]

There is no such thing as biblical mormonism/ the mormon cult does not follow the bible and since smith edited it to fit his ideas the mormons do not have a clue how far from being biblical they are.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

There is no such thing as biblical mormonism/ the mormon cult does not follow the bible and since smith edited it to fit his ideas

The official Bible of the LDS is the KJV. What are you claiming Joseph Smith edited in the KJV?

[Christian]

berry posted:

Originally Posted by Christian

You are worshiping the wrong god. . .a god amongst many gods you think exist instead of the ONLY REAL GOD ANYWHERE, EVER Who speaks to us in Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc.

Following the wrong gods will lead you to Hell.

That seems to be one of the usual retorts whenever scriptures are posted that defy faith alone theology--or one is challenged to ante up the goods--and they realize they are unable to do so.

No matter HOW OFTEN you post your own 'perverted version' of faith alone theology we will keep CORRECTING your error. Your ERROR doesn't seem to change, so the SCRIPTURE we point out to you to CORRECT YOU remains the same, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, etc etc etc. YOUR garbage may change with regularity, but the TRUTH remains the same. And the TRUTHFUL RESPONSES remain the same.

Christian--the challenge is to post scriptures showing salvational doctrines which are found in the Biblical text--and not found in the LDS church--and if one were able to do so--their fingers would be stomping down on the keys so hard and fast, the keyboard would appear as a rice paddy just trampled through by a herd of cape buffalo.

TRUTHFUL salvation leads you to the GOD OF THE BIBLE, not a man who became a god, but in theory has never changed and never will (from eternity past to eternity future). Following the WRONG GOD as the mormons do, the REAL Gospel is not found in mormonism, but only a FAKE god that used to be a man (NOT the God of the Bible). You HAVE NO GOSPEL FOR SALVATION since no salvation is found in your FALSE GODS AND FALSE PROPHET.

The false gospel, the one your false religion with its false gods and demon-spirit-brother-of-satan-'jesus' does not come from the REAL GOD AT ALL

THIS is the REAL GOSPEL and it talks about the REAL JESUS CHRIST (not joey smith's imaginary 'spirit-brother-of-satan-jesus):

1 Cor 15:1-8
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.


3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
NKJV

Not ONE WORD about 'if you keep the ordinances, laws, or pigskins' that your manmade religions tell you to keep.

CHRIST taught that we are SAVED BY FAITH and NOT OF WORKS (Ephesians 2:8-9)

YOU HAVE BEEN CORRECTED for your OUT OF CONTEXT USE of the James p***age. IT describes what 'a man (who) SAYS . . .'sees, NOT WHAT GOD SEES. You obviously do not understand the WORD OF GOD.

Is that because you are the 'natural man' of 1 Cor 2:14?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

No matter HOW OFTEN you post your own 'perverted version' of faith alone theology we will keep CORRECTING your error.

Then perhaps you will busy yourself with correcting my version of faith alone theology:

Matthew 19:16-19King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

First off, what James is implying is that faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ, clearly has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. So when we refer to salvation by faith alone, we are only referring to those Christians who are truly saved, and who will also do good works as a result of their salvation, not as the means. And, those works have no effect on one's salvation since they are after the fact. Only those who are saved are enabled by the Holy Spirit to do good works. All this means is that those Christians who are lacking in works, are not truly saved. It doesn't mean that works are the means by which one is saved.

James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead. I suspect you focus on dead faith because Mormons have no faith.

To demonstrate salvation doctrines that are found in the Bible that are not found in the LDS Church, one only need look at the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, plus nothing. That doctrine is actually taught in the Book of Mormon, but Mormons have abandoned the tenets of the Book of Mormon in favor of later teachings of Joseph Smith which can be found in the D&C and PofGP.

There are no Biblical teachings being currently taught in the LDS faith that I know of. Mormons use some of the same words as Christians, but the meanings are entirely different. In fact, I challenge you to show me a Biblical doctrine that LDS doctrine has not completely usurped, demonized or abandoned the original meaning completely.

As far as teachings found in the Bible and the Book of Mormon that are not found in Mormonism, we find:

• One God manifest in Three Persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit;
• God is Spirit;
• Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation,
• no preexistence for man;
• Salvation without baptism;
• Heaven or hell;
• Polygamy condemned; etc.

The above teachings can be found both in the Book of Mormon and the Bible, but have been abandoned by the LDS. Polygamy is outwardly condemned but is still practiced by some Mormon sects, and is still considered a valid doctrine that all Mormons acknowledge in some regard. Such as a man being sealed to a dead woman or a widow being sealed to another (living or dead) man.

Another curious fact is that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon are silent on the peculiar doctrines that separate Mormonism from Christianity, including:

• Aaronic priesthood
• Baptisms for the dead
• Celestial marriage
• Mormon Church organization
• Exaltation
• Polytheism
• Three heavens

Can you explain this for us DBerrie?

[Berean]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then perhaps you will busy yourself with correcting my version of faith alone theology:

Matthew 19:16-19King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Allow me to correct your version of faith alone theology:

It's not about doing good things. It's about having faith in Christ alone.

That wasn't hard.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Berean

Allow me to correct your version of faith alone theology: It's not about doing good things.

John 5:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

[Christian]

Biblical mormonism = an oxymoron

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

EASY PICKINS!!

1. The Only TRUE God anywhere, NOT the 'one god of many gods supposedly extant in the mormon religion
2. The ONLY begotten (fathered) Son of the ONLY true God anywhere, Jesus Christ, NOT the false jesus of the mormons who is supposedly one of zillions of 'spirit sons and daughters' plopped out by the supposed mormon 'mother goddesses.'
NOT a 'spirit-brother-of-satan' demon 'jesus' of the mormons

THOSE mormon gods can't save anyone from anything!

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

EASY PICKINS!!

1. The Only TRUE God anywhere,

This One?

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Peter 1:3--King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

2. The ONLY begotten (fathered) Son of the ONLY true God anywhere, Jesus Christ,

That only separates the "one God" from God the Son.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

This One?

The ONLY begotten (fathered) Son of the ONLY true God anywhere, Jesus Christ,

That only separates the "one God" from God the Son.

It ALSO DEBUNKS the mormon theory that the TRUE God 'fathered' a bunch of demons like satan, your supposed 'spirit brother of your demonic jesus.'

(See John 3:16; it's NOT TALKING ABOUT "SEPARATING" ANYTHING," of course. berry likes to take things OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT to try to force them to make his points. It doesn't work at all. . . NOBODY believes him, apparently not even the mormons who seem to have left out of embarr***ment because he tries to 'identify' with them.)

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

It ALSO DEBUNKS the mormon theory that the TRUE God 'fathered' a bunch of demons like satan,

If God the Father did not Father all spirits--then could you please identify the God who fathered the remainder of the spirits?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Is that some spirits--or all spirits?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

who fathered ?

"fathered"?

Who came up with that term?

Is that like a verb?





anyway, the Bible teaches that while God is in fact the 'creator" of all things, He is yet only the "Father" of they who have a relationship with Him.

This is why the devil is called the "Father" of the lost, for they lack this needed relationship with God.


(see John 8:44)



So God is the creator of the universe, he is yet only the father of they whom he has this relationship with.
Yet some may point out that God is called the father of all the spirits, and to understand this we also need to remember that Eve is called the "mother of all life", or "all" the living....

yet we know Eve was not the mother of all the living, for she did not give birth to Adam, nor the animals.

So this points us to the understanding that when the Bible makes use of the term 'all" we have to see it in the context of 'all they that are in a close and particular relationship with".....


thus we can agree that God is the father of all spirits, as long as we understand this is only talking about the good angels or its speaks of the spirit's of saved men, , and not the demons or the lost men..

And this agrees with the words of Christ who points out that lost men are said to have as their "father" the devil.



so to answer the question: The answer is that God is the father to only the spirits who he has the needed relationship with, and this is then in agreement with the words of Jesus who said that some men have the devil as their father.

...and as no one can have 2 fathers of their flesh, nor two fathers of their spirit.......

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

"fathered"?

Who came up with that term?

Is that like a verb?

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

So--who fathered you? Was it the one who is the father of your flesh?