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Thread: Biblical Mormonism

  1. #51
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I think if you were to read again what I have said, you might see that I have asked for any supports at all?...(in other words, pay better attention)

    Is the word found in the Bible?
    Yes, Alan--the word is found in the Biblical text--on a number of occasions. The text I gave testifies God is the Father of the spirits of men:

    Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    Again--the past tense form of that would be "Fathered":

    fa·ther---verb

    past tense: fathered; past participle: fathered

    be the father of."he fathered three children"

    synonyms: parent, be the father of, bring into the world, spawn, sire, breed; More

    So--care to answer my question, IE--if God the Father did not Father all spirits--then could you reveal to us who you believe Fathered the remainder?

    The same true with the testimony of Jesus Christ being the Only Begotten Son of God:


    begotten---https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/begotten

    "Something is begotten when it's been generated by procreation — in other words, it's been fathered."

  2. #52
    alanmolstad
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    once again,,,you fail to list a single verse in the whole Bible than makes the same use of a term you pile your whole theology on top of...


    You cant list another historical reference of the christian church makeing use of the same term.

    You cant even list another person , like a Bible translator or teacher, that makes the same use of the term in connection with God..



    Thus your whole theology is shown now to be based just on your own personal views* and not worth my time to deal with.

    ( * Your argument appears as silly to me as if I were listening to someone say that Jesus was made of wood because he called himself a "door" as in - "Yes Alan, Jesus called himself a door, and every door in the Bible is made of wood, And Alan I can back this up by quoting a dictionary where it lists what all bible-age doors were constructed of" )




    ....such foolishness

  3. #53
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    once again,,,you fail to list a single verse in the whole Bible than makes the same use of a term you pile your whole theology on top of...
    I don't pile my whole theology on any single scripture I have posted, but I do believe what the scriptures testify to, that is--God the Father is the Father of the spirits of men:

    Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    IOW--our spirits were Fathered by God the Father--just as our mortal bodies were fathered by our earthly parents(please see the context in above scripture)

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    once again,,,you fail to list a single verse in the whole Bible than makes the same use of a term you pile your whole theology on top of...


    You cant list another historical reference of the christian church makeing use of the same term.

    You cant even list another person , like a Bible translator or teacher, that makes the same use of the term in connection with God..



    Thus your whole theology is shown now to be based just on your own personal views* and not worth my time to deal with.

    ( * Your argument appears as silly to me as if I were listening to someone say that Jesus was made of wood because he called himself a "door" as in - "Yes Alan, Jesus called himself a door, and every door in the Bible is made of wood, And Alan I can back this up by quoting a dictionary where it lists what all bible-age doors were constructed of" )

    So, are you stating that if you can't find a single word in the Bible, but you can find other "translators or teachers"--then it is doctrinal? But on the other hand, if you can find the word and idea multiple times in the Bible, but you can't find other "translators or teachers" it is not doctrinal?




    ....such foolishness

    So, are you stating that if you can't find a single word in the Bible, but you can find other "translators or teachers"--then it is doctrinal? But on the other hand, if you can find the word and idea multiple times in the Bible, but you can't find other "translators or teachers" it is not doctrinal?

    This explains so much.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  5. #55
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    So, are you stating that if you can't find a single word in the Bible, ......


    from time to time I run into guys that think that got it all figured out...

    They think that have discovered some type of super-secret new way to understand the Bible .

    But what i have seen true here is that they got no clear verse in the Bible that agrees with the way they use a non-Bible term.|

    They got their lucky word that they hang their whole theology on but it does not actually appear in the text...

    and that when you ask for any type of supporting voices from either Church history, or from a Bible scholar to get a bit more context of how the same word is used by others?.. they got nothing.

    They cant find a single verse that supports the way they use a word that they pile everything on top of.

    They cant point to the use of that word in Christian Church history

    They cant name any translator or Bible teacher like Dr Walter Martin that support their views.


    They got nothing....just an invented word and squat else.




    So when i find that they got nothing to back up their views, then guess what I do?...

    I just smile ......







    I mean I don't mind leading a few horses to the water,,,but , after a while .....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-27-2017 at 05:09 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    from time to time I run into guys that think that got it all figured out...

    They think that have discovered some type of super-secret new way to understand the Bible .

    But what i have seen true here is that they got no clear verse in the Bible that agrees with the way they use a non-Bible term.|

    They got their lucky word that they hang their whole theology on but it does not actually appear in the text...
    I could not agree with you more. The word "trinity" comes to mind.

    and that when you ask for any type of supporting voices from either Church history, or from a Bible scholar to get a bit more context of how the same word is used by others?.. they got nothing.

    They cant find a single verse that supports the way they use a word that they pile everything on top of.

    They cant point to the use of that word in Christian Church history

    They cant name any translator or Bible teacher like Dr Walter Martin that support their views.
    I agree completely again. Trinity is the perfect example, pile after pile of doctrine based on a single word, but pre-300 AD, the idea is not there, just not history at all. Not in the Bible, not historically out of the Bible.



    They got nothing....just an invented word and squat else
    . Yes, who did invent the word trinity? Certainly not God and certainly none of the Biblical writers.




    So when i find that they got nothing to back up their views, then guess what I do?...

    I just smile ......
    Good idea.







    I mean I don't mind leading a few horses to the water,,,but , after a while .....
    Exactly why I do not post in here much anymore.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #57
    alanmolstad
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    You can find the word "Trinity" as used in the context of the Christian God in Christian church history

    You can find the word Trinity used by Bible translators...

    You can find the word Trinity used by Bible teachers like Dr Walter Martin.


    So you can look at the term with this much support to it and understand how it is used in context...



    You dont have to take one guy's word...

    Thus when I use the term "Trinity:" you know its not just my own little "Magic word", rather you know Im using a term that is well known and commonly used in the same way by the entire christian church ...and that im not just some type of wing-nut, making up stuff to fit my ideas.


    So you see, there is a big difference.


    When I use a term like Trinity...or like "omnipotent".....you know I have a firm foundation to base my use of such a term on,,,even if the word itself is not exactly found in the text...

    i dont need to make anything up myself.

    I dont need to hide the fact that only I use this word to describe god...






    I have a lot of support for all i say about God

    unlike some people I could name....

  8. #58
    alanmolstad
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    Not until after 300 A.D. ( McGrath, Alister E. Christian Theology: An Introduction Blackwell, Oxford (2001) p.324). There is more time between the...



    (dont suppose you remember what you posted after that? , I kinda was clearing a post from a few months ago and my computer sorta froze and got the wrong one deleted)

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Not until after 300 A.D. ( McGrath, Alister E. Christian Theology: An Introduction Blackwell, Oxford (2001) p.324). There is more time between the...



    (dont suppose you remember what you posted after that? , I kinda was clearing a post from a few months ago and my computer sorta froze and got the wrong one deleted)
    I am not sure how you erased my post. Are you a moderator here?

    I will go back to your old post.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    You can find the word "Trinity" as used in the context of the Christian God in Christian church history
    Not until after 300 A.D. ( McGrath, Alister E. Christian Theology: An Introduction Blackwell, Oxford (2001) p.324). There is more time between the idea of trinity and Christ then there is between us and the cons***ution. Let's see, 200 years later, judges have deemed abortion a right as well as gay marriage. Time does make a difference.


    Any other point you make after this is a mute point.





    Thus when I use the term "Trinity:" you know its not just my own little "Magic word", rather you know Im using a term that is well known and commonly used in the same way by the entire christian church ...and that im not just some type of wing-nut, making up stuff to fit my ideas.


    So you see, there is a big difference.
    Yes, I agree, there is a huge difference. The term Father to describe God is used repeated in the Bible, the word trinity, not even once.


    I have heard the argument that we should be like the Bereans and search the scriptures so we are not swayed from the truth. The scriptures teach of our Father, but it does NOT teach of the trinity.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  11. #61
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post You can find the word "Trinity" as used in the context of the Christian God in Christian church history



    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    They got their lucky word that they hang their whole theology on but it does not actually appear in the text...
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    once again,,,you fail to list a single verse in the whole Bible than makes the same use of a term you pile your whole theology on top of...
    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post I think if you were to read again what I have said, you might see that I have asked for any supports at all?...(in other words, pay better attention)

    Is the word found in the Bible?

  12. #62
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I am not sure how you erased my post. Are you a moderator here?

    .....
    yes... I am .listed as the super mod....but I can't fly or have a cape.

    and the website or my computer (Im never really sure?)had locked-up again, so I tried to open a few other windows to try to get things to "flush" and run faster again, but that did not work....that did not work at all.
    I ended up with a bunch of commands stacked up and then everything kinda got mixed up....

    But if you have re-posted your comment then we are back to normal .
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-28-2017 at 05:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

    I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    Oh, how about the cult's teaching that Christians are worshiping Satan? How about Polygamy is needed to exaltation to godhood (D&C 132). How about that one needs to follow a Pedophile like Joseph Smith and get his okay for the celestial kingdom. And other disgusting and evil stuff too numerous to mention.


    And how about this: all Mormon works are filthy menstrual rags according to the Hebrew in Isaiah - because they spring from a denial of Christ.


    see: https://claudemariottini.com/2012/02...ing-the-bible/
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    [B] Oh, how about the cult's teaching that Christians are worshiping Satan? How about Polygamy is needed to exaltation to godhood (D&C 132).
    And just where do we find that in the Biblical text?

    The request was--what does one find in the Biblical text--which is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

    Please allow me to offer one that is found in the Biblical text:

    James 2:24--New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

  15. #65
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    There is nothing biblical about Mormonism, it is antichrist.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    There is nothing biblical about Mormonism, it is antichrist.
    And there you have it. When we are asked to test the Bible text as with the Bereans, and we do and out of that show that "trinity" is not part of the Bible, but Father is---the end result is that we are just outright told we are the antichrist.

    When the only argument that is left is to attack the messenger, then the attacker recognizes defeat in their ability to defend their position.

    I have an idea Apologette, why not see if you can find opinions and writings outside of our scriptures and continue to use it to attack us--because you will never be able to defend your position using the Bible or the Book of Mormon or any of the other scriptures. You can't do it and so you won't. It is NOT possible.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And there you have it. When we are asked to test the Bible text as with the Bereans, and we do and out of that show that "trinity" is not part of the Bible, but Father is---the end result is that we are just outright told we are the antichrist.

    When the only argument that is left is to attack the messenger, then the attacker recognizes defeat in their ability to defend their position.

    I have an idea Apologette, why not see if you can find opinions and writings outside of our scriptures and continue to use it to attack us--because you will never be able to defend your position using the Bible or the Book of Mormon or any of the other scriptures. You can't do it and so you won't. It is NOT possible.

    Sure, Mormons becoming gods and knowing secret handshakes is biblical, right? Sure, Monotheism is untrue, and there are billions of gods flitting around the universes, copulating to produce baby spirits. Frankly, I don't have to be a Berean to see that those teachings are not only anti-biblical but pagan as well.


    Futhermore, how naive does one have to be not to see that the term "father" or "fathered" can be metaphorical? Did the Devil ave sex with a bunch of Devilettes and produce baby spirits - yet Jesus said his enemies were children of their father the Devil.
    Last edited by Apologette; 03-28-2017 at 02:11 PM.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And there you have it. When we are asked to test the Bible text as with the Bereans, and we do and out of that show that "trinity" is not part of the Bible, but Father is---the end result is that we are just outright told we are the antichrist.

    When the only argument that is left is to attack the messenger, then the attacker recognizes defeat in their ability to defend their position.

    I have an idea Apologette, why not see if you can find opinions and writings outside of our scriptures and continue to use it to attack us--because you will never be able to defend your position using the Bible or the Book of Mormon or any of the other scriptures. You can't do it and so you won't. It is NOT possible.
    Bottom line Big Julie, do you think the God of Christians is Satan?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Bottom line Big Julie, do you think the God of Christians is Satan?
    No. I do not. Please quote the scripture from the Bible, Book of Mormon, or D&C that makes you think so?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    No. I do not. Please quote the scripture from the Bible, Book of Mormon, or D&C that makes you think so?

    So, you disagree with this article by a BYU professor that was printed in the official cult magazine, The Ensign?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Could anyone here please supply us with what is found in the Biblical text--that is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

    I am going to start the ball rolling with this scripture that defies faith alone theology--but aligns with LDS theology:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


    The term "Biblical Mormonism" is an oxymoron. It's like saying, "Biblical Islam."
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post

    So, you disagree with this article by a BYU professor that was printed in the official cult magazine, The Ensign?
    Let me p**** what the BYU professor said and was published in the Ensign. I do not disagree with him, but you misunderstand him.

    1.
    "“Of historical and theological significance is the fact that in Paul’s prophecy the church structure survives.
    " The church started by Christ survives.

    2.
    "But God is not at its head, making that church—following the appearance in it of Satan—no longer the church of God."
    The church left God. This can also be read about in Revelation. In other word, the leaders of the church turned away from God. This thinking is also confirmed by other great leaders such as Martin Luther and others who recognized that the church had left the teachings of Christ.

    3.
    "To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the Apostles is not to say that all that is in it is satanic."
    This statement recognizes the "church" and "Christianity" are two different things. While the church leaders were engaging in such things as indulgences and the worship of Mary, Christianity, or the belief in Christ survived as well as those who followed Christ.

    4.
    "Indeed, Latter-day Saints should rejoice—as the heavens undoubtedly do—at the great works of righteousness and faith, and the leavening influence on the world, of those whose lives are touched in any degree by Him whose gospel the Saints enjoy in its fulness."
    Latter-day Saints (Mormons) rejoice that the belief in Christ remained regardless of what was happening in the church at that time.

    5.
    "Still, ‘the power of God unto salvation’ (Rom. 1:16) is absent from all but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which the Lord himself has proclaimed to be ‘the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth’ (D&C 1:30)."
    However, because the leadership of the church turned away from God, the power of God was not with the church as a whole. This can be read to mean the priesthood, or those who had authority to act in God's name.

    6.
    "Satan’s goal of hindering many of God’s children from returning to their Father’s glory is thus realized."
    Therefore, if people believe in Christ, but do not have leaders who are called of God, Satan has more power over the children of men. They know truth, but are dispersed to and fro from one religion to the next. Hence, we see many divisions in the "body" of Christ.

    7.
    "How appropriate, therefore, is Paul’s description of him sitting in the place of God in the church of the apostasía.” Kent P. Jackson, "Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, Dec. 1984.
    In other words, when Paul used Greek term "apostatia" meaning apostasy when referring to the church, it was appropriate. the King James Version uses the term "a falling away".



    So, no, I don't disagree with the professor. But I clearly understand that you did not understand what he wrote. I hope the above helps.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  23. #73
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    The term "Biblical Mormonism" is an oxymoron. It's like saying, "Biblical Islam."[/B]
    Then perhaps you would like to post for us what you find in the Biblical text--which is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go?

    Maybe I could start with this, as to faith alone theology:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    Apologette--the faith alone share precious little in common with the Biblical NT:

    2 John 9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

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    berry,

    you have been refuted SO MANY TIMES regarding your MIS-USES OF SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTEXT that you are far PAST the point of looking stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    berry,

    you have been refuted SO MANY TIMES regarding your MIS-USES OF SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTEXT that you are far PAST the point of looking stupid.
    Actually, he has stated that this is ALWAYS the remark of the poster who cannot defend their beliefs using the scriptures.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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