What is the 'gospel' of the LDS church?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60 View PostYes, Matthew is in the Biblical NT. But Matthew was looking back on the earthy ministry of Jesus. He was recounting the 3 years he and the other disciples spent with Jesus. The New Testament gospel of grace did not begin until Christ went to the cross and shed His blood.

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostHi Hogan:

Mark might beg to differ:


Mark 1:1-5--King James Version (KJV)
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Originally Posted by hogan60

Yes, it was the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom of God. God would have given the Jews their King and kingdom if they all would have repented and believed in Christ as their Messiah. But they failed to do this. So God temporarily laid them aside and turned to the Gentiles. But the Apostles did not continue to bring this kingdom message. This was only done in the beginning when Jesus had offered himself to Israel as their king. The kingdom of God that was preached by Christ before his resurrection is not the Gospel they preached after he rose. The former refers to Christ's authority, or his rule on the earth; which is postponed until his second coming. Note, Paul never taught the gospel of the kingdom.

Hi Hogan:

I have no idea what you are alluding to. Your statement was the gospel of grace did not begin until Christ went to the cross.

Mark 1 espoused the very beginning of the gospel--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins.

What about the remission of sins do you not consider God's grace?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

Your repentance, baptism, temple work, ***hing, 'keeping ordinances' or inviting your bishop to dinner do NOTHING towards curry favor with God.

So--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--is not God extending His salvational grace to them which obey Him--and do His work?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

IOW--what is it about the remission of sins which you don't believe is God's grace?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--is not God extending His salvational grace to them which obey Him--and do His work?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

IOW--what is it about the remission of sins which you don't believe is God's grace?

You mean the remission of sins WHICH I DO believe is God's Grace (PART OF IT, of course) FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST (the REAL ONE, not the fake 'spirit-brother-of-satan-jesus' of the mormon cult) is ALSO part of God's GRACE.

Perhaps you don't know the MEANING OF THE WORD, "GRACE." It refers to the UNMERITED FAVOR shown by God, not to wages 'earned by doing stuff.'

Your cult doesn't teach that, does it?

NO NON-CHRISTIAN IS EVER COMMANDED TO BE BAPTIZED BY GOD IN THE BIBLE ANYWHERE.

IF you 'baptize' an atheist, you get, 'a wet atheist, nothing more. IF you get baptized for a dead person, you get. . .wet, nothing more.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post So--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--is not God extending His salvational grace to them which obey Him--and do His work?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

IOW--what is it about the remission of sins which you don't believe is God's grace?

Originally Posted by Christian

You mean the remission of sins WHICH I DO believe is God's Grace ....

If that's so--then the above scripture has God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins to them which obey Him, and do His work.

How do you fit that into faith alone theology?

It fits LDS theology well.

Mark 16:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by Christian

EXCELLENT POST. Verse 22 starts with 'BUT' which is a conjunction of CONTRASTING SOMETHING WITH WHAT HAS BEEN SAID.

We don't usually agree, but in this case we do.

unfortunately for the lds, they look for those verses that have the word "work" or "obey" in them in order to try to make a case for their works theology, while completely ignoring the whole chapter or the verses around them. They mix law with grace. When Jesus was telling people like the rich, young ruler, to keep the commandments, they were still under the law. Gal 3:13 tells us that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--is not God extending His salvational grace to them which obey Him--and do His work?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

IOW--what is it about the remission of sins which you don't believe is God's grace?

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Eph. 2:10

Notice how carefully Paul puts works in the right place. You don't obtain anything from God by working for it. You never deserve anything but judgment at His hand. If He gave us what we deserve, we would all end up in hell. No, we receive His grace, His mercy, His love. But these result in good works. That is the point. They are designed to produce good works. Works are a display of God's ability not ours.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by disciple

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Eph. 2:10

Notice how carefully Paul puts works in the right place. You don't obtain anything from God by working for it.

Could you explain for us if you believe God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins for those who obeyed Him--and did His work, in Acts2:38--is an example of obtaining "anything from God by working for it."?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--if we are created in Christ Jesus for good works--can one receive eternal life without performing the works God created us for?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

If that's so--then the above scripture has God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins to them which obey Him, and do His work.

How do you fit that into faith alone theology?

It fits LDS theology well.

Mark 16:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed.

dberrie, David in the Bible, lived under the law. How do the verses below fit into works and obedience as taught by mormons?

“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” (Romans 4:6-8)

[disciple]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you explain for us if you believe God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins for those who obeyed Him--and did His work, in Acts2:38--is an example of obtaining "anything from God by working for it."?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--if we are created in Christ Jesus for good works--can one receive eternal life without performing the works God created us for?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hi DB,

Hope you are well. Salvation is a work of God, we don't decide we want to be saved, it is God who draws us, God who gives us a measure of faith to believe the gospel and God who gives us the grace to obey the command to believe and be saved. Do unsaved people wish to repent and be baptized? No. The works prepared for us only come after salvation, do unsaved people wish to do works for God or for themselves? Unsaved people are enemies of God, their hearts are turned away from God, they do not wish to cooperate with Him, to work for Him nor does repentance enter their minds for they are doing what is natural to man and see no need for a Savior.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi DB,

Hope you are well. Salvation is a work of God, we don't decide we want to be saved, it is God who draws us, God who gives us a measure of faith to believe the gospel and God who gives us the grace to obey the command to believe and be saved. Do unsaved people wish to repent and be baptized? No. The works prepared for us only come after salvation,

Hi Disciple--good to hear from you:

Were those here saved prior to the remission of sins?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

do unsaved people wish to do works for God or for themselves? Unsaved people are enemies of God, their hearts are turned away from God, they do not wish to cooperate with Him, to work for Him nor does repentance enter their minds for they are doing what is natural to man and see no need for a Savior.

Obviously, they see a need for repentance, else--they would not repent nor obey:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Were those of Acts10:35 accepted of the Lord before--or after-- they worked righteousness?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

dberrie, David in the Bible, lived under the law. How do the verses below fit into works and obedience as taught by mormons?

“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” (Romans 4:6-8)

Hi Hogan:

The above scripture is a reference to the time when the gospel of grace would be given to man unto the remission of sins(not attainable under the Mosaic Law)---independent of works(rituals under the Mosaic Law).

When Paul used the terms "works", "works of the Law", "the Law"--that was a reference to rituals under the Mosaic Law. When the other Biblical NT writers used the term "works"--that was a reference to obedience to the gospel.

Paul distinguished between the two:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


If Paul was using the term "works" in Romans4:6-8 to denote obedience to the gospel--then could you explain for us why he testified those who did not obey the gospel would not enter into the Kingdom of God?

[disciple]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Disciple--good to hear from you:

Were those here saved prior to the remission of sins?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Obviously, they see a need for repentance, else--they would not repent nor obey:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Were those of Acts10:35 accepted of the Lord before--or after-- they worked righteousness?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hi again DB,

If you look at the verses before and after Acts 2:38 you will see that it was God who worked on the hearts of those who were saved,
giving them the faith to believe the testimony Peter had presented. Just hearing the gospel is not enough, it is God who is responsible
for salvation. Not all were saved that day, just those drawn by God and given the grace and mercy to believe and be saved.
So to answer your question yes, they were saved first otherwise they would not care if their sins were forgiven, nor would they
see a need to repent.

"Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Acts 2:37

And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Acts 2:40-41

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi Disciple--good to hear from you:

Were those here saved prior to the remission of sins?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Obviously, they see a need for repentance, else--they would not repent nor obey:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Were those of Acts10:35 accepted of the Lord before--or after-- they worked righteousness?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi again DB,

If you look at the verses before and after Acts 2:38 you will see that it was God who worked on the hearts of those who were saved,
giving them the faith to believe the testimony Peter had presented. Just hearing the gospel is not enough, it is God who is responsible
for salvation. Not all were saved that day, just those drawn by God and given the grace and mercy to believe and be saved.
So to answer your question yes, they were saved first otherwise they would not care if their sins were forgiven, nor would they
see a need to repent.

Hi Disciple:

Since the scriptures testify it's the Blood of Christ which is applied to the remission of sins--then your theology is that one is saved prior to the Blood of Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Disciple:

Since the scriptures testify it's the Blood of Christ which is applied to the remission of sins--then your theology is that one is saved prior to the Blood of Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Hi DB,

If we are walking in the light as Christ is we are obviously saved. 1 John 1:9 also tells us if we confess our sins He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
These verses are talking about saved people, if an unsaved person says "God I'm sorry I just murdered my friend", is he cleansed from all unrighteousness?
No, only those in Christ are justified and declared righteous and continuously cleansed by His blood.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi Disciple:

Since the scriptures testify it's the Blood of Christ which is applied to the remission of sins--then your theology is that one is saved prior to the Blood of Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Originally Posted by disciple

Hi DB,

If we are walking in the light as Christ is we are obviously saved.

Hi Disciple:

But that only connects walking in the light with being saved, IE--walking in the light as the condition to receiving the Blood of Christ unto the remission of sins.

Your premise was that we are saved prior to the remission of sins--which eliminates the need for the Blood of Christ for salvation to occur.

These verses are talking about saved people,

I agree--but 1John1:7 is referring to those who walk in the light--as a condition to the Blood of Christ for the remission of sins.

Faith alone theology has one receiving salvation through a faith without works--including walking in the light for God's grace of His Blood.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

The above scripture is a reference to the time when the gospel of grace would be given to man unto the remission of sins(not attainable under the Mosaic Law)---independent of works(rituals under the Mosaic Law).

When Paul used the terms "works", "works of the Law", "the Law"--that was a reference to rituals under the Mosaic Law. When the other Biblical NT writers used the term "works"--that was a reference to obedience to the gospel.

Paul distinguished between the two:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


If Paul was using the term "works" in Romans4:6-8 to denote obedience to the gospel--then could you explain for us why he testified those who did not obey the gospel would not enter into the Kingdom of God?

dberrie, where did Paul ever teach exaltation? Isn't that a part of the lds gospel? Why do mormons believe in obedience for salvation? Is it more for exaltation? The hope of becoming gods someday? Wasn't that the first sin? Adam and Eve wanted to be like god knowing good and evil.

Romans 6:4-8 and Psalms 32, David talks about someone who had sins, who would have to be counted wicked if judged by works, but who had all their sins forgiven. David is talking about a person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

dberrie, where did Paul ever teach exaltation? Isn't that a part of the lds gospel?

Jesus Christ taught those who who were faithful would be exalted:

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


And exalted unto what?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Why do mormons believe in obedience for salvation?

Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is it more for exaltation?

Eternal Life and exaltation are synonymous terms.

The hope of becoming gods someday? Wasn't that the first sin? Adam and Eve wanted to be like god knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Romans 6:4-8 and Psalms 32, David talks about someone who had sins, who would have to be counted wicked if judged by works, but who had all their sins forgiven. David is talking about a person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.

"Works"--as in works of the law(Mosaic Law)--true.

But not "works"--as in obedience to the gospel:

Romans 6:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Disciple:

But that only connects walking in the light with being saved, IE--walking in the light as the condition to receiving the Blood of Christ unto the remission of sins.

Your premise was that we are saved prior to the remission of sins--which eliminates the need for the Blood of Christ for salvation to occur.



I agree--but 1John1:7 is referring to those who walk in the light--as a condition to the Blood of Christ for the remission of sins.

Faith alone theology has one receiving salvation through a faith without works--including walking in the light for God's grace of His Blood.

Hey DB,

What works did the Philippian jailer do, or the Ethiopian eunuch, or the thief on the cross or the 3000 who received salvation in the account in Acts 2?

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Jesus Christ taught those who who were faithful would be exalted:

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


And exalted unto what?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;




Eternal Life and exaltation are synonymous terms.



Genesis 3:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:



"Works"--as in works of the law(Mosaic Law)--true.

But not "works"--as in obedience to the gospel:

Romans 6:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Hi dberrie, none of those verse you quoted have anything to do with men becoming gods. Please show me where Paul ever taught exaltation as taught by the mormon church. If you are working then you are trying to get God to do something for you. You are actually sayng that God owes you something. God doesn't owe us anything. We all deserve hell according to the Bible. No one is good or righteous apart from the work Christ did. We are all born in sin. We all need a savior. This is why Christ came.

The Holy Bible nowhere teaches that eternal life is the same as exaltation.That's the teaching of the lds church.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Jesus Christ taught those who who were faithful would be exalted:

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


And exalted unto what?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;




Eternal Life and exaltation are synonymous terms.



Genesis 3:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:



"Works"--as in works of the law(Mosaic Law)--true.

But not "works"--as in obedience to the gospel:

Romans 6:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Hi dberrie, none of those verses you quoted have anything to do with men becoming gods. Please show me where Paul ever taught exaltation as taught by the mormon church. If you are working then you are trying to get God to do something for you. You are actually sayng that God owes you something. God doesn't owe us anything. We all deserve hell according to the Bible. No one is good or righteous apart from the work Christ did. We are all born in sin. We all need a savior. This is why Christ came.

The Holy Bible nowhere teaches that eternal life is the same as exaltation.That's the teaching of the lds church.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by disciple

Hey DB,

What works did the Philippian jailer do, or the Ethiopian eunuch, or the thief on the cross or the 3000 who received salvation in the account in Acts 2?

Hi Disciple:

As to Acts2--

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Jesus Christ taught those who who were faithful would be exalted:

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

And exalted unto what?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Eternal Life and exaltation are synonymous terms.

Genesis 3:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

"Works"--as in works of the law(Mosaic Law)--true.

But not "works"--as in obedience to the gospel:

Romans 6:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Originally Posted by hogan60

Hi dberrie, none of those verses you quoted have anything to do with men becoming gods.

Hi Hogan:

The verses connect obedience and eternal life, and obedience and righteousness--which, if true--renders faith alone theology false--regardless of men becoming gods.

Please show me where Paul ever taught exaltation as taught by the mormon church.

Christ Himself taught exaltation--why is that not enough?

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

If you are working then you are trying to get God to do something for you.

Did God do something for those who repented and were baptized here?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Could you show us any example of God extending His grace unto life to anyone who refused to obey God, and His gospel?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Jesus Christ taught those who who were faithful would be exalted:

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

And exalted unto what?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Eternal Life and exaltation are synonymous terms.

Genesis 3:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

"Works"--as in works of the law(Mosaic Law)--true.

But not "works"--as in obedience to the gospel:

Romans 6:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John 3:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Quote Originally Posted by hogan60 View PostHi dberrie, none of those verses you quoted have anything to do with men becoming gods.

Hi Hogan:

The verses connect obedience and eternal life, and obedience with righteousness--which, if true--renders faith alone theology false--regardless of men becoming gods.

Please show me where Paul ever taught exaltation as taught by the mormon church.

Christ Himself taught exaltation--why is that not enough?

Luke 18:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

If you are working then you are trying to get God to do something for you.

Did God do something for those who repented and were baptized here?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Could you show us any example of God extending His grace unto life to anyone who refused to obey God, and His gospel?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Anyone care to engage this concern?