Life or ****ation

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post If you want rewards in Heaven you must be obedient to God. The works are not what save you but your works do determine your obedience and heavenly rewards.

The Lord Jesus commanded us to feed the poor, visit prisoners etc. so we better do it to show our love for God. John says that we show our love for God by keeping His commandments.

Hi Jude:

I believe that to be the truth--and anyone who studies the Bible will find that theme woven throughout the Biblical NT.

I would like to add something here that might clarify the doctrine of Christ ever further, that is--the judgment of all men, after death--and that in accordance to one's works--is a judgment for either life--or ****ation:

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, p*** the time of your sojourning here in fear:

[jude1:3]

Sometimes I wonder if folks confuse repentance and sinning vs doing good works and being lazy.

[jude1:3]

Good scriptures by the way.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by jude1:3

Good scriptures by the way.

Thanks, Jude.

[Berean]

The problem, DBerrie, is that LDS/Mormons misuse the Bible by taking verses out of context to prove their false doctrines. Not only is this practice dishonest, but Joseph Smith himself claimed the Bible is corrupt and not very reliable. So the fact that it is fully accepted as fully one fourth of the entire Mormon "Scriptures" or "Standard Works," and that you use it as "proof text" for Mormon doctrines, is silly at best, hypocrisy at its worst.

Mormons, however, do not consider this a disadvantage, as it affords them the liberty to pick and choose which verses are to be accepted and which interpretations are correct. And only the interpretation that best describes Mormon doctrines are accepted. And those are the ONLY Scriptures you ever use. You never use the Scriptures that clearly demonstrate that you have taken them out of context. The verses you use only "stir the pot" so to speak, by making Christians squirm. But by taking those verses out of context you have created a false dilemma concerning the interpretation of those Scriptures. The problem is, you obviously have never performed a proper exegesis of those verses, nor do you acknowledge when others do that for you. If you had, then you might realize your interpretation is wrong.

These two videos demonstrate how Mormons misuse the Bible.

[Berean]

As far as "life or ****ation" goes, I submit Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace... 33And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins , that ye become holy , without spot.

What is Moroni telling us? That we must [first] become "perfected in Christ, denying ourselves of all ungodliness," then is His grace sufficient.

A Mormon can only reach the Celestial Kingdom by keeping Celestial Law. (see D&C 88).

12^th President Spencer W. Kimball: “There are . . . many members of the Church who are lax and careless and who continually procrastinate. They live the gospel casually but not devoutly. They have complied with some requirements but are not valiant. They do no major crime but merely fail to do the things required—things like paying ***hing, living the Word of Wisdom, having family prayers, fasting, attending meetings, serving.” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Spencer W. Kimball, p. 8.).

“If we must give all that we have, then our giving only almost everything is not enough. If we almost keep the commandments, we almost receive the blessings” (Seventy Bruce C. Hafen, “The Atonement: All for All,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2004, p. 98.).

If we must still "do our part," has Jesus really "paid it all?"

The Bible teaches the true believer is justified by faith alone (Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8-10). There are only those who are forgiven and those who are not forgiven. Those who are forgiven have their sins washed away and eternal life because of their reliance on faith in Jesus (1 John 5:13). Those who are not forgiven have not accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith, and instead rely rather on their own good works to overcome sin.

Consider the Mormon's "sin debt" like having a home mortgage. You can't say you truly own your own home, or in the Mormons case, reached the Celestial Kingdom (salvation) as long as you still owe the "debt." If you stop making the payment, the lender will foreclose and you lose everything you've invested so far.

But what if someone came along and paid the mortgage off for you, (as Jesus did by paying the penalty for all sin, once for all) then you no longer owe the debt, you own the home outright and the lender can no longer cause you any harm. All one must do is accept the free gift. That's what salvation and grace and atonement mean to Christians.

Jesus paid the price for the sin of all mankind in its entirety, therefore granting the free gift of salvation by grace to those who have faith in this promise.

We are no longer "debtors" to sin. We have received eternal life and the forgiveness of all of our sin debt, past, present and future, for merely accepting the free gift of grace. (Gal 3:22).

Remember Isaiah 64:6; Next to God's perfect standards, all of our good works are but filthy rags.

There is no one who does not sin, (2 Chron 6:36) The Bible teaches that "Jesus came to take away our sin, and there is no sin in him.. " 1John 3:5.