False witness?

[dberrie2000]

Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Posthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_witnesses

Alan--please allow me to print a statement made concerning the above reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_witnesses

"None of the Eight Witnesses is known to have denied his testimony to the authenticity of Book of Mormon or the golden plates."

So--where does that leave your testimony?

Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post"All the Mormon witnesses are as worthless as they are unreliable who recanted their testimony."

How do you answer to that contradiction?

Anyone?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Alan--please allow me to print a statement made concerning the above reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_witnesses

"None of the Eight Witnesses is known to have denied his testimony to the authenticity of Book of Mormon or the golden plates."

So--where does that leave your testimony?



How do you answer to that contradiction?

Anyone?

my question is who wrote or edited that wikipedia account? wikipedia is not considered a scholarly or accurate source of information

After Smith's death, James Strang, claiming to be Smith's chosen successor, also produced buried plates and the testimony of eleven witnesses to their authenticity.

really? where are those plates? why would they need to be buried since moroni took them back to heaven and did not rebury them. sorry but your argument has too many holes in it.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

my question is who wrote or edited that wikipedia account? wikipedia is not considered a scholarly or accurate source of information

Hi David:

Please do feel free to print any scholarly information which includes any witness denying their testimonies. Until then:

Testimony of Three Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris


Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

[DrDavidT]

please stop posting the same **** over and over. it does not address the post made in response to your op. i will report you if you do it again.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

please stop posting the same **** over and over. it does not address the post made in response to your op. i will report you if you do it again.

Hi David:

David--this is my OP--you report whatever you want.

Your concern seemed to me to be Wiki was not an accurate source of truth--therefore, I posted the first hand accounts of the witnesses themselves. Not the first testimony has been posted where the witnesses themselves denied anything which is testified to in those first hand accounts, even though the claim has been made the witnesses recanted.

Care to address those concerns?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

David--this is my OP--you report whatever you want.

Your concern seemed to me to be Wiki was not an accurate source of truth--therefore, I posted the first hand accounts of the witnesses themselves. Not the first testimony has been posted where the witnesses themselves denied anything which is testified to in those first hand accounts, even though the claim has been made the witnesses recanted.

Care to address those concerns?

I have been waiting for those bible verses where Jesus taught people to wear magic underwear, lucifer is his brother, heaven is a planet inhabited by a being who needs help bringing children to earth (not much of a god is he if he needs human help) and other vital mormon ideological ideas. so far you haven't produced one

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

I have been waiting for those bible verses where Jesus taught people to wear magic underwear,

Where do we find any claim to "magic underwear" by the LDS church?

The LDS believe it is their "wedding garment":

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

[alanmolstad]

in my church we dont have anything like the Mormons and their magic undies.....

The closest I got is my "lucky" tee shirt that I wear doing sparing compe***ions.

[alanmolstad]

I will try to find a video on the Mormon magic underwear....I know I found one on YoiuTube a while ago when I GOOGLED "MORMON MAGIC UNDERWEAR"

[alanmolstad]

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I will try to find a video on the Mormon magic underwear....I know I found one on YoiuTube a while ago when I GOOGLED "MORMON MAGIC UNDERWEAR"

Alan--the OP is about the false witness:

Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post"All the Mormon witnesses are as worthless as they are unreliable who recanted their testimony."

You still have not posted anything which has the witnesses themselves denying their testimonies.

Care to address the OP?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

I have been waiting for those bible verses where Jesus taught people to wear magic underwear,....

About a year or so I found a YouTube video on the Mormon magic undies that was just incredibly funny.

But I have been unable to find it tonight..
I will keep looking as i wanted to post it here now that the topic has come up and people might be interested...
But I may post other videos until I find it.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Where do we find any claim to "magic underwear" by the LDS church?

The LDS believe it is their "wedding garment":

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

they would be wrong of course as no one wears a wedding garment everyday of their life and under other clothes.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

they would be wrong of course as no one wears a wedding garment everyday of their life and under other clothes.

The LDS, who have been through the Temple ceremony--wear their garments night and day--every day. They are ready for the wedding supper:

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The LDS, who have been through the Temple ceremony--wear their garments night and day--every day. They are ready for the wedding supper:

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

wouldn't they be smelly, unclean and unfit for a wedding ceremony? BUT again (and that response should go in the other thread) there is NO instructions to create a garment to wear every day

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

wouldn't they be smelly, unclean and unfit for a wedding ceremony?......

well...depends on the girl you are marrying I guess?

Im not sure how Mormon girls are, but some girls are not so picky...(and that explains how long haul tuckers can get married)

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

well...depends on the girl you are marrying I guess?

Im not sure how Mormon girls are, but some girls are not so picky...(and that explains how long haul tuckers can get married)

funny

but as you can see dberrie does not answer questions

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

wouldn't they be smelly, unclean and unfit for a wedding ceremony?

Hi David:

Christ didn't believe the garment rendered them unfit, unclean, or smelly--it was the absence of the garment which did not go unnoticed:

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

BUT again (and that response should go in the other thread) there is NO instructions to create a garment to wear every day

The LDS commitment is a daily one. We don't run to put on our marriage garment when the Bridesgroom appears, as it's too late at that point:

Matthew 25:1-13King James Version (KJV)
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

funny

but as you can see dberrie does not answer questions

In my own opinion, the introduction of undergarments by the Mormon leader was just a natural part of his being a sexual pervert...
He introduced the idea of young girls wearing his designed underclothes as a way to introduce the idea that the girls have to get undressed and so the topic of their underwear and getting undressed is introduced and the result is that this kinda would 'break the ice" with the new girls he wanted to bed.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

In my own opinion, the introduction of undergarments by the Mormon leader was just a natural part of his being a sexual pervert...

So--is John Hanes a sexual pervert also? Does that include all those who wear undergarments?(you do don underwear?)

He introduced the idea of young girls wearing his designed underclothes as a way to introduce the idea that the girls have to get undressed and so the topic of their underwear and getting undressed is introduced and the result is that this kinda would 'break the ice" with the new girls he wanted to bed.

Cite, please. Alan--could you give us the evidence of your speculation?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--is John Hanes a sexual pervert also? ?

I dont really know?...did he ever send husbands who worked for him out of town, and then when they were gone did he come sniffing around their wives?

If he did, then I think we can agree thats the sign that the guy is a sexual pervert correct?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I dont really know?...did he ever send husbands who worked for him out of town, and then when they were gone did he come sniffing around their wives?

If he did, then I think we can agree thats the sign that the guy is a sexual pervert correct?

Moving the goalposts won't solve why you ***ociate undergarments as a natural part of being a sexual pervert:

Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post In my own opinion, the introduction of undergarments by the Mormon leader was just a natural part of his being a sexual pervert...

Since Hanes, along with others-- introduced undergarments--are they also a sexual perverts? Do you wear undergarments? If so--does that implicate you also?

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi David:

Christ didn't believe the garment rendered them unfit, unclean, or smelly--it was the absence of the garment which did not go unnoticed:

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.



The LDS commitment is a daily one. We don't run to put on our marriage garment when the Bridesgroom appears, as it's too late at that point:

Matthew 25:1-13King James Version (KJV)
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

again you did not address the issue but posted the same verses you already posted. you really do not know how to discuss do you?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I dont really know?...did he ever send husbands who worked for him out of town, and then when they were gone did he come sniffing around their wives?

If he did, then I think we can agree thats the sign that the guy is a sexual pervert correct?

Never got an answer to my question....

So I ask again,

If the guy did sent husbands who worked for him out of town, and then when they were gone did he come sniffing around their wives, then I think we can agree thats the sign that the guy is a sexual pervert correct?



clearly a sex pervert correct?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi David:

Christ didn't believe the garment rendered them unfit, unclean, or smelly--it was the absence of the garment which did not go unnoticed:

Matthew 22:10-14---King James Version (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The LDS commitment is a daily one. We don't run to put on our marriage garment when the Bridesgroom appears, as it's too late at that point:

Matthew 25:1-13---King James Version (KJV)
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

again you did not address the issue but posted the same verses you already posted. you really do not know how to discuss do you?

I haven't seen any discussion engaging the above scriptures. David--it seems to me--every time I have posted scriptures--it is diverted into some straw man argument.

Care to engage the above scriptures?

Revelation 19:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.