A broken LEG of the mormon religion

[Christian]

Joe smith claimed Christ's church had been 'removed' from the earth because of apostasy.

God supposedly (through Jesus Christ) built a church that failed, apostatized, lost its Gospel, some of its SCRIPTURES, and that the leaders of that church (whom joe called "professors") were all corrupt, teaching the teachings of men. Joe claimed its authority was somehow 'lost' and removed from the earth.

THEN joe invented a new religion. Built with HIM being the 'authority.'

EXCEPT

CHRIST'S church NEVER TOTALLY APOSTATIZED. HIS church remains alive, well and vibrant just as it has for about 2,000 years now. . .UNLIKE the religion joe smith invented less than 200 years ago.

Joe's father god is only an 'exalted man, one of many in many universes.' His 'jesus' is a 'spirit-brother' of his 'satan.' They are supposedly of the same spirit family.

The Father God of the BIBLE was NEVER A MAN, BUT IS the ONLY TRUE GOD ANYWHERE.

Num 23:19
"God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
NKJV

Joe smith lied.

IF you worship a false God instead of the REAL ONE (joe worships an 'exalted man.') you will go to Hell.

IF you follow a false prophet like joe smith, YOU will go there with him.

WITHOUT a COMPLETE APOSTASY (in which case God would be a failure, unable to keep HIS church together and faithful), that 'leg' of joe smith's fairytale religion falls in the end. And of course joe's manmade religion falls into the sewer with the rest of the false religions.

IF YOU THINK THERE WAS A COMPLETE APOSTASY, then SHOW US IN SCRIPTURE WHERE GOD WOULD FAIL LIKE THAT

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

Joe smith claimed Christ's church had been 'removed' from the earth because of apostasy.

[COLOR=#0000cd]God supposedly (through Jesus Christ) built a church that failed, apostatized, lost its Gospel, some of its SCRIPTURES, and that the leaders of that church (whom joe called "professors") were all corrupt, teaching the teachings of men. Joe claimed its authority was somehow 'lost' and removed from the earth.
[COLOR=#0000CD]
THEN joe invented a new religion. Built with HIM being the 'authority.'

EXCEPT

CHRIST'S church NEVER TOTALLY APOSTATIZED.

It must have apostatized enough to warrant the Reformers to start new denominations--with a new theology:



Early Leaders of the Reformation and their Desire for the Fullness of the Gospel--

http://www.restoredgospel.com/GE/Han...%20rev%202.asp

Said Henry Shaefer, "...Martin Luther, like many other men of the Reformation Period, did their part in preparing the way for the great restoration of all things, spoken of by all the prophets, (Acts 3:21).

All these men were honest. None of them ever claimed to have restored, but had just reformed, just patched it up to the degree of light they had " 1

What did the reformers have to say?


"If the primitive gospel would come again God would have to speak from heaven."

-Martin Luther, (History of the Reformation, Vol. 2, P. 111). 2


"The times which we have reason to believe are at hand, (if they are not already begun) are what pious men have termed "the latter day glory;" meaning the time wherein God would gloriously display his power and love."

-John Wesley, founder of Methodistism (Sermon 71). 3


"..Please send forth new apostles, let the last prophet come..."

-Charles Wesley, brother of John Wesley, in a hymn of prayer. 4


"We want the old gospel back that is sustained by the ancient order of things."

-John Campbell of the Christian Church, (Campbell, Christian System, p. 250). 5


"He denied that any ministry existed in his time which is truly authorized to act in the name of Christ.For he continues that the apostasy of antichrist had so far corrupted all, so that there can be no recovery out of that apostasy until Christ shall send forth new Apostles to plant the Church anew."

-Roger Williams of the Baptist movement, (Struggles and Triumph of Religious Liberty, pp. 238, 239). 6



In summary, the spirit of God worked in the lives of our nations mighty leaders also, to prepare the way for the restoration. This statement from our nations third President:

"...The genuine and simple religion of Jesus will one day be restored; such as it was preached and practiced by Himself.Very soon after His death it became ****led up in mysteries, and has been ever since kept in concealment from the vulgar eye..."

-Thomas Jefferson, in 1820 (the year of Joseph Smith's first vision) 7

1,2,3,4,5,6 Schaefer, Henry, I will always be with you, 1978, pp. 11-12.

7 Stewart, John, Thomas Jefferson Forerunner to the Restoration, 1997, p. 85.

The Reformers Foretold The Restoration

In addition to the many Bible references that prophesy that God would return the New Testament church to the earth in the last days, the great men of the Reformation testified of such a need for the restoration - for each one of them came to sense that his reforms, important as they were, could not "bring the old gospel back," but that God would do so. Here are some of the important statements made by the great reformers, that:


1. THERE WAS AN APOSTASY (a FALLING AWAY or DARK AGES)

BAPTIST:

Roger Williams declared: "...the apostasy of Antichrist hath so far corrupted all that there can be no recovery out of that apostasy till Christ shall send forth new apostles to plant churches anew." Struggles and Triumphs of Religious Liberty, - pg. 238-239

Roger Williams "denied any ministry now exists which is authorized to preach the gospel to the impenitents or to administer the ordinances." Cramp's Baptist History - pg. 238-239


METHODIST:

"We seldom hear of the manifestations of the gifts after the third century. From this time they almost entirely ceased. The cause of this was not... 'because there was no more occasion for them,' ...The real cause was, 'the love of many, almost all Christians, so-called, was waxed-cold.' The Christians had no more of the Spirit of Christ [during the dark ages] than other heathens... The Christians were turned heathens again, and only a dead form left." - John Wesley, Sermon 89

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by Christian

Joe smith claimed Christ's church had been 'removed' from the earth because of apostasy.

God supposedly (through Jesus Christ) built a church that failed, apostatized, lost its Gospel, some of its SCRIPTURES, and that the leaders of that church (whom joe called "professors") were all corrupt, teaching the teachings of men. Joe claimed its authority was somehow 'lost' and removed from the earth.

THEN joe invented a new religion. Built with HIM being the 'authority.'

EXCEPT

CHRIST'S church NEVER TOTALLY APOSTATIZED. HIS church remains alive, well and vibrant just as it has for about 2,000 years now. . .UNLIKE the religion joe smith invented less than 200 years ago.

Joe's father god is only an 'exalted man, one of many in many universes.' His 'jesus' is a 'spirit-brother' of his 'satan.' They are supposedly of the same spirit family.

The Father God of the BIBLE was NEVER A MAN, BUT IS the ONLY TRUE GOD ANYWHERE.

Num 23:19
"God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
NKJV

Joe smith lied.

IF you worship a false God instead of the REAL ONE (joe worships an 'exalted man.') you will go to Hell.

IF you follow a false prophet like joe smith, YOU will go there with him.

WITHOUT a COMPLETE APOSTASY (in which case God would be a failure, unable to keep HIS church together and faithful), that 'leg' of joe smith's fairytale religion falls in the end. And of course joe's manmade religion falls into the sewer with the rest of the false religions.

IF YOU THINK THERE WAS A COMPLETE APOSTASY, then SHOW US IN SCRIPTURE WHERE GOD WOULD FAIL LIKE THAT

You are correct. A complete apostasy is impossible because Jesus Christ paid for His Church with His blood!!

[Christian]

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;171531]It must have apostatized enough to warrant the Reformers to start new denominations--with a new theology:



Early Leaders of the Reformation and their Desire for the Fullness of the Gospel--

So this clown wants us to go to an lds site to prove the lds 'right?' OF COURSE they make his false claims for him.

Sorry berry, but I don't go to cultist sites for my theology. I go ONLY TO THE BIBLE.

JESUS told us:

Matt 16:18
on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
NKJV
And yet YOUR CULT wants us to believe that CHRISTIANS aren't faithful enough to keep the gates of Hades from winning out (prevailing) over the church JESUS BUILT.

I'm sorry, but neither joe smith, charles manson, or hitler are greater or smarter than JESUS CHRIST. THEY can't overcome CHRIST'S church either. NOBODY is greater than GOD, and Jesus IS GOD.

Jesus IS God btw, He is NOT your satanic 'spirit-brother-of-satan' demon. The lds get that fairytale christ, along with their false prophet/seer/peepstone-gazer.

AND STILL NO COMPLETE APOSTASY
NO Christ's church losing any Authority to act for God
NO lost gospel
NO NEED FOR ANY "RESTORATION' since nothing is lost.

NOTHING for joe smith's newly INVENTED religion to stand on!

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

NO NEED FOR ANY "RESTORATION' since nothing is lost.

Hi Christian:

You might want to relay that to the Biblical NT writers:

Acts 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So--if nothing was lost--then why the need for the Reformation?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Christian:

You might want to relay that to the Biblical NT writers:

Acts 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So--if nothing was lost--then why the need for the Reformation?

Reformation of WHAT? You mean like when joey smith's religion was 'reformed' into 150+ separate (and denying the authenticity of EACH OTHER [including YOURS]), EACH with their own 'prophets' and EACH with their own 'living mortal apostles?'

Reforming ONE formerly Christian group does NOT MEAN that the WHOLE group of Christians ever needed reforming. You are mixing apples and oranges again.

AND

You have STILL NOT SHOWN ANYWHERE where
Christ's church failed
Christ's church lost anything that ever needed to be 'restored.'
Christ's church EVER HAD ANY COMPLETE apostasy.

NEITHER HAVE YOU EVER SHOWN ANYWHERE where
Christ's church lost ANY of its authority to act for God. . .EVER
OR
Christ's church EVER lost the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

UNTIL YOU CAN SHOW THOSE THINGS, YOU HAVE NOTHING but the word of the heretic cultist joseph smith. He rates right up there with charles manson.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostHi Christian:

You might want to relay that to the Biblical NT writers:

Acts 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So--if nothing was lost--then why the need for the Reformation?

Originally Posted by Christian

Reformation of WHAT?

Hi Christian:

That's the question I have asked before--Reformation of what?

Reforming ONE formerly Christian group does NOT MEAN that the WHOLE group of Christians ever needed reforming.

Just what "one formerly Christian group" are you referring to?

Christian--the Reformers started new denominations, with a different theology. What Christian group are you claiming they Reformed or joined with?

And if they started new denominations, with a different theology--what heavenly event do they claim, which gave them the authority to do so?

If the gospel was not present in the existing churches--then it would have to be a Restoration, not a reformation, as the gospel is perfect already--it does not need to be reformed.

Acts 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.