Where are the verses?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

Dberrie, Abraham did only one thing that caused God to credit it to him as righteousness. He Believed in the One True God. That was obedience. There was no works he did at that time.

So--are you claiming obeying God's commandments, laws, and statutes are not works?

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version (KJV)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The promises were given due to Abraham's obedience to God's commands--if the record is true.

Abraham came out of that and said he believed in the one true God. That's all he did and that's all that was required.

Again--if the promises were conditional upon Abraham's obedience--then believe and obedience are connected as integral components one to another:

James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

The lds version of Jesus Christ is that he was a man like us , who through obedience, earned exaltation.

The LDS version is the Biblical version--Jesus Christ's God and Father exalted Jesus to be Savior and Kind--and the heir of all things:

Acts 5:30-31---King James Version (KJV)
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The Scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ preexisted with God the Father.

Since the LDS believe Jesus Christ was the God of the OT--you are preaching to the choir.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

God said He will not share His glory with another, yet He always shared glory with Jesus Christ because they are one.

I agree:

John 17:21-23---King James Version (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The reason you stress so much on "obedience" and pull out those verses that have the word "obey" or "obedience" in them is because the lds church teaches that men can become gods someday.

Whatever reason or significance one may want to attach to obedience to Jesus Christ--if obedience is required for His grace unto life--then faith alone theology is false. End of story.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Since the LDS believe Jesus Christ was the God of the OT--you are preaching to the choir.

dberrie, I am talking about before Christ was Jehovah. According to lds teaching, was he a man like us, YES or NO?

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I agree:

John 17:21-23---King James Version (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Whatever reason or significance one may want to attach to obedience to Jesus Christ--if obedience is required for His grace unto life--then faith alone theology is false. End of story.

dberrie, you haven't given us a single Biblical verse that says obedience is required for grace in one's life. The Bible says while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. In Matt 2:17, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." He came to give grace to sinners. It doesn't say he gives grace to the obedient. If that were true than it wouldn't be a gift but something you have to try to earn through a myriad of works. You can never know in this life if you have done enough. If you have to work so hard, then Christ died in vain.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

dberrie, I am talking about before Christ was Jehovah.

Since Christ was Jehovah in the OT--what are you claiming He was before then?

According to lds teaching, was he a man like us, YES or NO?

Christ was a Spirit in the OT. He became physical man in the NT--and evermore.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I agree:

John 17:21-23---King James Version (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Whatever reason or significance one may want to attach to obedience to Jesus Christ--if obedience is required for His grace unto life--then faith alone theology is false. End of story.

Where does John 17 say men can become gods? Born again believers are "the body of Christ."

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

dberrie, you haven't given us a single Biblical verse that says obedience is required for grace in one's life.

Hi Hogan:

That is the common denial the faith alone resort to whenever scriptures are posted which defy their theology, IMO:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

Where does John 17 say men can become gods? Born again believers are "the body of Christ."

John 17:21-23---King James Version (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17 testifies the "one" the Father and Son are--is the "one" which the disciples of Christ should be, negating the definition the faith alone would like to apply to "one".

Very friendly to LDS theology. Bringing in an issue of "gods" won't change that.

You might want to take that point up with Christ:

John 10:34-36---King James Version (KJV)
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

That is the common denial the faith alone resort to whenever scriptures are posted which defy their theology, IMO:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I don't have a church theology. I believe what the Bible says and I let it mean what it says.

dberrie, can you tell me how Eph. 2:8,9 which says we are saved by grace and not of works, squares with lds theology?

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

That is the common denial the faith alone resort to whenever scriptures are posted which defy their theology, IMO:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Duplicate post

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Since Christ was Jehovah in the OT--what are you claiming He was before then?



Christ was a Spirit in the OT. He became physical man in the NT--and evermore.

LDS teaching is that “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens." (king Follette Discourse) Is this also true of Jesus Christ?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

LDS teaching is that “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens." (king Follette Discourse) Is this also true of Jesus Christ?

Yes, of course. If that isn't true--then we don't have any hope of eternal life.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

dberrie, can you tell me how Eph. 2:8,9 which says we are saved by grace and not of works, squares with lds theology?

Hi Hogan:

Two points:

1) There is nothing in LDS theology which states one is saved by works. LDS theology has those who are saved--being saved by God's grace.

The question in LDS theology becomes--who does God give this grace unto life to?

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

2) When Paul used the term "works"--that is a reference to certain rituals under the Mosaic Law--not obedience to the gospel of Christ, obviously:

Romans 2:5-11----King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

1 Corinthians 7:19--King James Version (KJV)
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 6:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Hebrews 10:36---King James Version (KJV)
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Colossians 3:5-6---King James Version (KJV)
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Romans 2:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For this ye know, that no *****monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:8--King James Version (KJV)
8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

***us 1:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Philippians 2:12---King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

Two points:

1) There is nothing in LDS theology which states one is saved by works. LDS theology has those who are saved--being saved by God's grace.

The question in LDS theology becomes--who does God give this grace unto life to?

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

2) When Paul used the term "works"--that is a reference to certain rituals under the Mosaic Law--not obedience to the gospel of Christ, obviously:

Romans 2:5-11----King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

1 Corinthians 7:19--King James Version (KJV)
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 6:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Hebrews 10:36---King James Version (KJV)
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Colossians 3:5-6---King James Version (KJV)
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Romans 2:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For this ye know, that no *****monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:8--King James Version (KJV)
8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

***us 1:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Philippians 2:12---King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

So you are continuing to be saved throughout your lifetime? How? By good works?

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Yes, of course. If that isn't true--then we don't have any hope of eternal life.

Was Jesus Christ once a man like Heavenly Father was also once a man?

If you believe Heavenly Father is an exalted man and that this is necessary for eternal life, then what you are saying is that Born again Christians all throughout the history of the Christian Church do not have eternal life because the Scriptures do not teach any of this.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

So you are continuing to be saved throughout your lifetime? How? By good works?

Hi Hogan:

As the scriptures testify to:

Romans 2:5-11----King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 2:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hogan--most people have their minds made up--they ignore what the scriptures testify to--and make up their own theology. Most of what I post in scriptures--is p***ed over as "out of context", "cherry picked"----or just plain ole false doctrines.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

Was Jesus Christ once a man like Heavenly Father was also once a man?

Hi Hogan:

Once we accept God the Son was once a mortal man--on this planet--and died here--then the step to include God the Father is not an introduction to a unique idea.

So--is God an exalted man of flesh and bones?

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

You do see the problem? Hogan--the faith alone don't believe there is but one God--they cannot answer that question but with anything but a "yes" answer, as to the question of God being an exalted man.

If you believe Heavenly Father is an exalted man and that this is necessary for eternal life,

I have never heard the LDS preach believing God the Father is an exalted man is necessary for eternal life.

What the LDS do preach is--faith in Christ, and obedience to Him--is necessary for eternal life.

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


And if that is true--then faith alone theology is false.

[DrDavidT]

well I will be departing soon, as people cannot refrain from derailing my threads.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

Once we accept God the Son was once a mortal man--on this planet--and died here--then the step to include God the Father is not an introduction to a unique idea.

So--is God an exalted man of flesh and bones?

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

You do see the problem? Hogan--the faith alone don't believe there is but one God--they cannot answer that question but with anything but a "yes" answer, as to the question of God being an exalted man.



I have never heard the LDS preach believing God the Father is an exalted man is necessary for eternal life.

What the LDS do preach is--faith in Christ, and obedience to Him--is necessary for eternal life.

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


And if that is true--then faith alone theology is false.

dberrie, Are you willing to believe God over what some man says? Are you wiling to allow God to speak for Himself and not put words in His mouth? WE MUST let God mean what He said. God said He knows of NO OTHER GODS. Was He lying? Does He have a poor memory? If God knows of no other gods anywhere, then we had better believe Him! God did NOT say there are no other gods on this earth. He said there are NO OTHER GODS PERIOD!. And guess what? Satan is the god of this world. Planet earth.

Isaiah 43:10-11, "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. "I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.

Isaiah 45:5, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God besides me: I girded you, though you have not known me."

Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’”


Deut. 4:35, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him."


dberrie, you are treading on dangerous ground. You are calling God a liar without realizing it. God also was never a man. He always existed as God from ETERNITY past to ETERNITY future.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

Once we accept God the Son was once a mortal man--on this planet--and died here--then the step to include God the Father is not an introduction to a unique idea.

So--is God an exalted man of flesh and bones?

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

.

Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie."...Not even an exalted man.

dberrie you are out of bounds when you go outside of God's written Word. Jesus never taught the lds version of exaltation, men becoming gods. Yes, Christians will one day receive a glorified body similar to Jesus' but we will never be a god. Jesus taught humility. Men must be servants.

The Holy Bible says that the OT saints are in heaven. They are not on different planets having spiritual babies for eternity. This is lds teaching that has zero Biblical support.

The first lie of satan was that Adam and Eve could become like God, knowing good and evil. This appealed to their flesh. They believed it and guess what? They became sinners and God kicked them out of paradise. If they had remained in the garden they would have continued to pollute it. They would have kept sinning. This is why God came in the flesh to redeem fallen humanity. If works and obedience could have saved them, then Christ would not have needed to sacrifice Himself on the cross.

Don't be deceived.. Don't listen to this lie of the devil.

deberrie, we must listen to the Bible, not Calvin, Luther, Wesley, or Joseph Smith. We must judge Smith (and all these men) BY THE HOLY BIBLE. Not the other way around. We must never judge the bible by what some man teaches.

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Hogan:

Once we accept God the Son was once a mortal man--on this planet--and died here--then the step to include God the Father is not an introduction to a unique idea.

.

Can you tell me, if God was once a man like us, who created him? Where did the first man come from and how did he become exalted?

dberrie, do you see the problem with this? The Holy Bible tells us who created the first man. It tells us God was always God.

"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalm 90:2).

Before anything was created, God was already there.

"I say, "O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days, your years are throughout all generations. Of old you founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands." (Psalm 102:24,25).

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

dberrie, Are you willing to believe God over what some man says? Are you wiling to allow God to speak for Himself and not put words in His mouth? WE MUST let God mean what He said. God said He knows of NO OTHER GODS. Was He lying? Does He have a poor memory? If God knows of no other gods anywhere, then we had better believe Him! God did NOT say there are no other gods on this earth. He said there are NO OTHER GODS PERIOD!.And guess what? Satan is the god of this world. Planet earth.

Morning, Hogan:

That sounds a little confused, don't you think? If there are no other Gods, period--then how can satan be a god?

Doesn't that qualify as polytheistic?


Definition of polytheism--Merriam Webster

: belief in or worship of more than one god


Hogan--is God a resurrected man of flesh and bones?

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by hogan60

Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie."...Not even an exalted man.

Morning, Hogan:

In the Book of Numbers--God was a Spirit.

In the NT--He was born a man--here, on this planet--and is still a man:


1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And He was exalted by His God and Father:

Acts 5:30-31---King James Version (KJV)
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Philippians 2:5-9---King James Version (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

So--could you explain for us what you believe is untrue about that witness?

[hogan60]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Morning, Hogan:

That sounds a little confused, don't you think? If there are no other Gods, period--then how can satan be a god?

Doesn't that qualify as polytheistic?


Definition of polytheism--Merriam Webster

: belief in or worship of more than one god


Hogan--is God a resurrected man of flesh and bones?

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

No confusion here, dberrie. Did you notice the little "g" in satan is the god of this world? In other words, he is NOT God. Not equal to God. He is a created angel and we also are God's creation. Satan, for the time being, rules this world, but when Christ returns, that will be the end of it.

God is not a man, not an exalted man. Read the scriptures that says he was always God from eternity to eternity. We must never try to redefine words, but let God be true and let Him mean exactly what He said.

You wrote: Definition of polytheism--Merriam Webster

: belief in or worship of more than one god.

Its says belief in OR worship. It does not say belief in AND worship. You don't have to worship multiple gods to be polytheistic. Just believe many exist. And the mormons do believe there are zillions.