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Thread: When something is never destroyed, why would it need to be

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Acts 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    So WHAT did joey smith 'res***ute?' Oh, that's right. . .HE MADE UP 'NEW' STUFF instead!

    GOD never said joey smith was part of any "res***ution."

    Of course, HEAVEN will be a res***ution of something like the Garden of EDEN. . .

    Oh, that's right. . .joey told you there IS NO HEAVEN, just 3 'glories' and NO HELL either.

    CONTRADICTORY TO WHAT GOD SAID in the Scriptures.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The GOSPEL is the most important thing. And the parts of the gospel that Paul called the things of most importance, are as follows:

    "...the good news that I proclaimed to you, which you in turn received, in which also you stand, through which also you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you—unless you have come to believe in vain.

    For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received:

    that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures,

    and that he was buried,

    and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures,

    and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

    Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.

    Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

    Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."

    I agree that the "heart of the gospel" as it has been called in one Bible version, has not been destroyed, so it didn't need to be reformed or restored.
    So you ADMIT that joey smith lied?!!!!

    Thank you for admitting it.



    BTW I DEFY you to SHOW US ONE BIBLE VERSION that says IN ITS TEXT that those verses are only 'the heart of the gospel' instead of simply 'THE GOSPEL.' I don't believe you can. It's not there.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So you ADMIT that joey smith lied?!!!!
    Thank you for admitting it.
    If you can find a quote of a person named joey smith claiming that those doctrines that are called, in some Bibles, "the heart of the gospel" were destroyed, THEN I will admit that a joey smith said something that wasn't true. as for whether any given person has lied (which means deliberately, knowingly saying something that isn't true) you can only speak for yourself, not for anyone else unless that other person is on record admitting they lied.

    BTW I DEFY you to SHOW US ONE BIBLE VERSION that says IN ITS TEXT that those verses are only 'the heart of the gospel' instead of simply 'THE GOSPEL.' I don't believe you can. It's not there.
    have you ever admitted that you were wrong about the Bible? --just wondering

    J.B. Phillips New Testament

    ("If the resurrection is the heart of the gospel how can any Christian deny life after death?")

    12-19 Now if the rising of Christ from the dead is the very heart of our message, how can some of you deny that there is any resurrection? For if there is no such thing as the resurrection of the dead, then Christ was never raised. And if Christ was not raised then neither our preaching nor your faith has any meaning at all. Further it would mean that we are lying in our witness for God, for we have given our solemn testimony that he did raise up Christó



    (Also, see NIV Study Bible's notes on Gal. 1:7)--"no gospel at all. Because it lacks the heart of the gospel--the good news of God's marvelous grace in Christ"
    Last edited by Phoenix; 05-23-2017 at 01:21 PM.
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  4. #29
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So you ADMIT that joey smith lied?!!!!

    Thank you for admitting it.



    BTW I DEFY you to SHOW US ONE BIBLE VERSION that says IN ITS TEXT that those verses are only 'the heart of the gospel' instead of simply 'THE GOSPEL.' I don't believe you can. It's not there.
    I have not been following your conversation, but I just clicked over and I have to say that was a very good 'point" you made there!

  5. #30
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So you ADMIT that joey smith lied?!!!!

    Thank you for admitting it.



    BTW I DEFY you to SHOW US ONE BIBLE VERSION that says IN ITS TEXT that those verses are only 'the heart of the gospel' instead of simply 'THE GOSPEL.' I don't believe you can. It's not there.
    I have not been following your conversation, but I just clicked over and I have to say that was a very good 'point" you made there!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I have not been following your conversation, but I just clicked over and I have to say that was a very good 'point" you made there!
    "Good"???

    in what ways was it good?

    1. it was insulting.
    2. it was false.

    accusations such as that poster's don't fit the definition of good in any dictionary i have seen.

    maybe to certain people, evil is good, but i think such people are not in step with the common definition of the word. i think the bible predicts that there will people who call good evil, and evil good
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  7. #32
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    GOD never said joey smith was part of any "res***ution."
    But the Biblical record testifies there would be a res***ution:

    Acts 3:21--King James Version (KJV)
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    Could you explain why there would be a need for a res***ution of all things--when nothing was lost?

    Why the need for a Reformation--if nothing was lost?

  8. #33
    alanmolstad
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    ever notice that the people that teach that there would be a need to recover the truth also, by the way, claim to have recovered the truth????





    I always smile at such claims.....

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ever notice that the people that teach that there would be a need to recover the truth also, by the way, claim to have recovered the truth????
    There is a difference in those who claim--and those who did:

    Doctrine and Covenants---Section 110

    1–10, The Lord Jehovah appears in glory and accepts the Kirtland Temple as His house; 11–12, Moses and Elias each appear and commit their keys and dispensations; 13–16, Elijah returns and commits the keys of his dispensation as promised by Malachi.

    1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
    2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
    3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
    4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
    5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
    6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
    7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
    8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
    9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
    10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
    11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
    12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
    13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
    14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
    15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
    16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

    Could you give us any claim the numerous Reformation denominations churches have have to a heavenly restoration?

    Acts 3:21--King James Version (KJV)
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

  10. #35
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    Default smitty never 'res***uted' ANYTHING FROM GOD

    berry posted:

    But the Biblical record testifies there would be a res***ution:

    Acts 3:21--King James Version (KJV)
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    Could you explain why there would be a need for a res***ution of all things--when nothing was lost?

    Let's see now. . .WAS NOT EDEN and THAT LIFE lost?

    Oh, that's right, you can't pretend joey 'res***uted' THAT, can you?



    You STILL FAILED to tell us EXACTLY WHAT joey smith supposedly 'res***uted' OR ANY EVIDENCE that GOD used joey smith to DO ANYTHING AT ALL.

    joey smith simply INVENTED MORMON-SPECIFIC JUNK like your so-called
    baptism for the dead
    'you can be exalted to godhood' theory
    priesthood authority
    'prophets', '70-s' and 'living mortal apostles'

    NONE of that came from God.


    Why the need for a Reformation--if nothing was lost?

    The ROMAN church lost a lot. CHRISTIANITY was and IS FAR MORE than just one group.

    WHY did all of those MORMON RELIGIONS (all 150+ or so of them) feel the need to leave and START THEIR OWN SEPARATE RELIGIONS? EACH ONE OF WHICH (including the utah group) decrying that ALL THE OTHERS were HERETICAL AND NOT FROM GOD?

    CHRISTIAN groups recognize that OTHER CHRISTIANS are indeed PARTS OF THEMSELVES, PART OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST (the REAL JESUS, not the demon-brother-of-satan one joe smith invented).

  11. #36
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    Default Jesus wasn't stupid

    Why do mormons think Jesus was so stupid that He couldn't set up a church (GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, of course) that would last?

    But mormons seem to think Jesus WAS so stupid that HIS BODY (GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT) would 'lose its Gospel' and 'lose its authority to speak and act for God' and have to be 'REMOVED FROM THE EARTH.'

    Only Satan wants that. I guess mormons must think satan was smarter than Jesus or HIS HOLY SPIRIT. . .

    berry posted:

    Could you give us any claim the numerous Reformation denominations churches have have to a heavenly restoration?

    Only about 150+ mormon denominations think that God's church 'got lost' and had to be 'restored.'

    Acts 3:21--King James Version (KJV)
    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    Why should we believe joey smith and not Jeffs or Strang? Or the leader of the temple lot lds?

    WHAT CLAIM did bring-em young have?

    WHAT EVER GOT LOST from Christ's REAL church

    WHERE DID ANY CHRISTIAN IN CHRIST'S ORIGINAL CHURCH BELIEVE
    you could be 'exalted' to godhood?
    you could be baptized for ANYONE other than yourself?
    Christ's BODY, (HIS church, guided by the HOLY SPIRIT) would ever die or 'get lost?'
    or that
    PART of His foundation (which INCLUDED THE APOSTLES [not just 12] AND JESUS CHRIST ) must be 'alive mortals on the earth forever' or Christ's BODY (HIS earthly church) would not be complete here on the earth?
    or
    WHERE DID ANY CHRISTIAN ANYWHERE IN CHRIST'S ORIGINAL CHURCH EVER TEACH
    smith's 'priesthood authority' theories?
    smith's '70's' "office in HIS CHURCH?
    Any "Prophet' or 'seer' or 'peepstone gazer' would EVER LEAD his church on earth?
    or
    That God had a physical body of flesh and bones
    or
    ANY of smith's other '*****' teachings?

    Oh, that's right! JESUS NEVER TAUGHT ANY SUCH DUNG. JOEY SMITH JUST INVENTED IT as part of smith's NEW RELIGION!

    Doesn't it strike you "odd' that NONE of the CHRISTIAN congregations think the mormon religion is a 'Christian' religion at all. ONLY THE MORMONS ARE TAUGHT THAT TRASH.
    Last edited by Christian; 05-25-2017 at 04:21 PM.

  12. #37
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Why do mormons think Jesus was so stupid that He couldn't set up a church (GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, of course) that would last?
    That might be a good question to ask the Reformers.

    Why the need for numerous new denominations with a different theology?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Why do mormons think Jesus was so stupid that He couldn't set up a church (GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, of course) that would last?
    That might be a good question to ask the Reformers.

    Why the need for numerous new denominations with a different theology?
    Like the 150+ MORMON denominations, each with their own different theologies?

    CHRIST'S church never needed reforming, and the 'reformers' you are 'referring' to were trying to get the roman catholic religion (NOT Christ's church) to reform.

    As to the 'different theology' issue; CHRISTIAN churches ALL hold to the same basic theology. You may find it in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 or so.

    ANYONE (even the mormon cult, jw's, and white supremecist cults) CAN CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN. Just because they CLAIM it does not MAKE them Christians any more than if they CLAIM to be Chevrolets that their CLAIM makes them into automobiles.


    So why not leave your mormon CULT and become a CHRISTIAN instead? Are you stuck because of
    1 Corinthians 2:14?

  14. #39
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    Default Do mormons think mormonism has been destroyed by the fundamentalist mormons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    To this day, the important question of whether Jesus' actual flesh and blood exist in the Eucharist, is an issue where Catholics and Protestants contradict each other.

    According to the Catholics, the doctrine of Transubstantiation was never lost, so it never needed to be re-invented or "restored" by the protestants.


    "When something is never destroyed, why would it need to be REFORMED?"

    CHRISTIANITY was never in need of "reformation." The catholic church (a GROUP of folks who had switched to fables) needed reformation.

    CHRISTIANITY WAS (AND IS) JUST FINE. The 150+ mormon religions, the jw's, the white supremecists, rest of the CULTS are NOT just fine. So IF ONE OF YOUR GROUPS 're-invents' YOUR religion, YOU might think it needs to be reformed. Do you think your 'funamentalist lds group' needs reformation.

    Does THEIR corruption mean YOUR WHOLE RELIGION is lost?

    Your theories are ****n away.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ever notice that the people that teach that there would be a need to recover the truth also, by the way, claim to have recovered the truth????
    i didn't notice what you're claiming when i read what pastor roger williams said in the 1600s about the loss of authority to run christianity. he said that it was no longer being run by authorized, apostolic leadership, but that some day in the future jesus would call new apostles to run it like he did in the 1st century.

    so pastor williams taught that there was a need to restore to christianity what it had lost---but williams didn't claim that HE was the guy to do the restoring. he actually resigned as pastor of his congregation because it would be hypocritical for him to continue leading a church that lacked authorized leaders.
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    That might be a good question to ask the Reformers.

    Why the need for numerous new denominations with a different theology?


    You mean the doctrine of salvation by Grace through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST?

    THAT 'different' theology?

    Oh yes, that's right, the mormon religion CLAIMS that salvation was from the penalty of DEATH, that all (including those guilty of SIN) are resurrected, and that salvation has NOTHING TO DO WITH FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND ETERNAL LIFE WITH GOD.

    Of course the BIBLE says that those who do NOT have faith in Jesus Christ enter by the WIDE GATE that leads to DESTRUCTION. I guess that for the mormons DESTRUCTION = 'salvation. . .'

    HOW STUPID IS THAT CONCEPT?

    MOST of the world enters through the WIDE GATE. . . to HELL.

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