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Thread: Why do mormons think they are CHRISTIANS now?

  1. #1
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    Default Why do mormons think they are CHRISTIANS now?

    In the early 1970's when I became a Christian, my mormon bishop friend told me "No WE ARE NOT Christians. . .We ARE MORMONS instead."

    They do NOT RESEMBLE historical Christianity
    they serve different gods
    they have different leadership
    they have different goals
    they follow a 'new guy on the block' who INVENTED a bunch of dung.

    So WHY would they consider themselves any more "Christian" than the other 'lds' groups (about 150 or so of them)? THEY TOO follow 'a' 'christ' just like the mormons do.

    So WHY THE CHANGE in mormonism?

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    Because we believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, which is the definition of being a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    In the early 1970's when I became a Christian, my mormon bishop friend told me "No WE ARE NOT Christians. . .We ARE MORMONS instead."
    I don't believe this, but if some bishop did say that, he was wrong.

    They do NOT RESEMBLE historical Christianity
    But then neither does Protestantism. Fortunately resembling "historical Christianity" is not necessary to be Christian.

    So WHY would they consider themselves any more "Christian" than the other 'lds' groups (about 150 or so of them)?
    We don't, of course.

    So WHY THE CHANGE in mormonism?
    There is no change in Mormonism. It only exists in your imagination.

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    erunder postd:

    Because we believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, which is the definition of being a Christian.


    Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    In the early 1970's when I became a Christian, my mormon bishop friend told me "No WE ARE NOT Christians. . .We ARE MORMONS instead."
    I don't believe this, but if some bishop did say that, he was wrong.

    Your personal faulty belief system is YOUR problem, not mine. In Truth, more than just my mormon bishop told me that. . .so did several OTHER mormon friends tell me that.

    YOU appear to be the "wrong one" here.



    They do NOT RESEMBLE historical Christianity
    But then neither does Protestantism. Fortunately resembling "historical Christianity" is not necessary to be Christian.

    IF mormonism is supposed to 'RESTORE' the original church, it should AT LEAST RESEMBLE the original church. It doesn't.


    So WHY would they consider themselves any more "Christian" than the other 'lds' groups (about 150 or so of them)?
    We don't, of course

    Are you now claiming that the OTHER 150 or so other "lds" groups such as the temple lot group, the strangites, the lds 'fundamentalists' etc are just as 'Christian' as yours is?

    So WHY THE CHANGE in mormonism?
    There is no change in Mormonism. It only exists in your imagination.

    Keep telling yourself that. . .perhaps you will CONVINCE yourself.

    You won't convince ME; I WAS THERE and KNEW THE PEOPLE. They were my neighbors and friends. So I know you are 'talking through your hat' just as joe smith did, on your own, with nothing from GOD to support you

    The ORIGINAL CHURCH (the one joe smith is supposed to have restored) NEVER TAUGHT OR BELIEVED
    in a multiplicity of real gods as smith did
    that you could BE EXALTED into becoming a god as smith did
    that Jesus was a relative of satan (a 'spirit-brother) as smith did
    that God the FATHER had a physical body of flesh and bones as smith did
    etc
    etc
    etc

    Smith didn't 'restore' anything at all. He just INVENTED his own manure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Your personal faulty belief system is YOUR problem, not mine. In Truth, more than just my mormon bishop told me that. . .so did several OTHER mormon friends tell me that.

    YOU appear to be the "wrong one" here.
    I've seen no evidence of that.

    IF mormonism is supposed to 'RESTORE' the original church, it should AT LEAST RESEMBLE the original church. It doesn't.
    Of course it does.

    Are you now claiming that the OTHER 150 or so other "lds" groups such as the temple lot group, the strangites, the lds 'fundamentalists' etc are just as 'Christian' as yours is?
    I don't claim anything for other churches. But if they believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, then they are Christian, by definition.

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    Default no resemblance to the original church, the one JESUS built.

    erunder posted:

    Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Your personal faulty belief system is YOUR problem, not mine. In Truth, more than just my mormon bishop told me that. . .so did several OTHER mormon friends tell me that.

    YOU appear to be the "wrong one" here.
    I've seen no evidence of that.

    Of course you don't. But if you took off your BLINDERS. . .

    IF mormonism is supposed to 'RESTORE' the original church, it should AT LEAST RESEMBLE the original church. It doesn't.
    Of course it does.

    So WHERE IN THE ORIGINAL CHURCH DID
    they believe in MULTIPLE GODS?
    they believe YOU could be 'exalted' into 'godhood?'
    they believe in a jesus who was supposedly a demon brother of satan?
    they believe in a god that used to be a man?
    they believe they should be baptized for folks who had died?
    they believe they should 'obey ordinances' to 'advance' themselves in the eyes of God?
    they believe they could EVER lose their Gospel?
    they believe the church could EVER be 'lost' or 'removed from the earth'
    they believe that 'living mortal apostles' would EVER continue to lead the church?
    etc
    etc
    ad nausium

    NO, the mormon religion is a NEW religion that started less than 200 years ago, INVENTED by joe smith.

    NO,



    I don't claim anything for other churches. But if they believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, then they are Christian, by definition.

    Even those of you who believe in a FALSE jesus christ, a demon 'spirit-brother' of satan?

    WHADDA JOKE!!!!!
    Last edited by Christian; 06-13-2017 at 08:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So WHERE IN THE ORIGINAL CHURCH DID
    they believe in MULTIPLE GODS?
    They didn't, and neither do we.

    they believe YOU could be 'exalted' into 'godhood?'
    2 Peter 1:4

    they believe in a jesus who was supposedly a demon brother of satan?
    They didn't, and neither do we.

    they believe in a god that used to be a man?
    1 Timothy 2:5

    they believe they should be baptized for folks who had died?
    1 Corinthians 15:29

    they believe they should 'obey ordinances' to 'advance' themselves in the eyes of God?
    1 Corinthians 11:2

    they believe they could EVER lose their Gospel?
    1 Timothy 4:1

    they believe the church could EVER be 'lost' or 'removed from the earth'
    2 Thessalonians 2:3

    they believe that 'living mortal apostles' would EVER continue to lead the church?
    Acts 1:26


    Even those of you who believe in a FALSE jesus christ, a demon 'spirit-brother' of satan?
    You're the only one I know who believes that.

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    Default Again every mormon claim refuted.

    erunder posted:

    Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So WHERE IN THE ORIGINAL CHURCH DID
    they believe in MULTIPLE GODS?


    They didn't, and neither do we.

    So you DON'T BELIEVE that YOU can become a God (d&c 132), OR that your 'heavenly father' came from a long line of gods?

    they believe YOU could be 'exalted' into 'godhood?'
    2 Peter 1:4

    2 Peter 1:2-4
    2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
    NKJV


    Sorry bubba, but it says no such thing at all.

    they believe in a jesus who was supposedly a demon brother of satan?
    They didn't, and neither do we.

    NOW are you going to pretend that YOUR church doesn't tell you YOUR jesus and satan (a demon) are 'spirit brothers' of YOUR 'heavenly father?' Weren't they BOTH supposed to have originated as 'spirit babies' to him?

    they believe in a god that used to be a man?
    1 Timothy 2:5

    1 Tim 2:5
    5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
    NKJV

    Sorry bubba, but it does NOT SAY that God was ever a man. Your religion's 'heavenly father' pretends to be an 'exalted man.' THAT p***age says no such thing.




    they believe they should be baptized for folks who had died?
    1 Corinthians 15:29

    Which like your other p***ages, says NO SUCH THING.

    1 Cor 15:29-30


    29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?
    NKJV
    IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE P***AGE AND ITS CONTEXT you would find that the ones being baptized are UNBELIEVERS who DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. It was NOT the CHRISTIANS who were being baptized for the dead.

    Your p***age betrays your religion's stupid theory.



    they believe they should 'obey ordinances' to 'advance' themselves in the eyes of God?
    1 Corinthians 11:2

    1 Cor 11:2-3
    2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
    NKJV

    As with the rest of your 'proof-texts' it DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU CLAIM. There is a difference between 'traditions' and 'ordinances' (or rules) that supposedly 'advance' you in the eyes of your false god.

    they believe they could EVER lose their Gospel?
    1 Timothy 4:1

    Which (again) SAYS NO SUCH THING. MORMONS have their 'departed from THEIR RELIGION' folks (150+ groups of them. . .want me to post the list again?) Does that mean the utah group 'lost ITS 'gospel?''

    1 Tim 4:1-3
    Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
    NKJV

    Let's see now. . .people leave the MORMON religion daily. Do you REALLY want to pretend your religion 'lost its gospel' because of that?

    they believe the church could EVER be 'lost' or 'removed from the earth'
    2 Thessalonians 2:3

    2 Thess 2:1-4
    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
    NKJV

    Which ONCE AGAIN SAYS NO SUCH THING. Groups have fallen away from the beginning. Just because bringum young took a group of joe smith's religious followers west does not mean that joe smith's religion was 'lost' or 'removed from the earth' does it?

    Sorry, but your religion's 'logic' fails you. . .AGAIN. The p***age does NOT SAY what you want it to say.


    they believe that 'living mortal apostles' would EVER continue to lead the church?
    Acts 1:26

    Acts 1:20-26
    'Let his dwelling place be desolate,
    And let no one live in it';


    and,


    'Let another take his office.'


    21 "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."


    23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
    NKJV

    And AGAIN IT DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOUR RELIGION TELLS YOU. It does not say ONE THING about 'live, mortal apostles (Paul became #13 btw) in every generation.

    YOUR P***AGE FAILS YOU AGAIN.


    Even those of you who believe in a FALSE jesus christ, a demon 'spirit-brother' of satan?
    You're the only one I know who believes that.

    You DON'T BELIEVE YOUR RELIGION'S TEACHING that your 'jesus' and 'satan' were both 'spirit babies' fathered by the same 'heavenly father?'

    NOW THAT IS INTERESTING.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So you DON'T BELIEVE that YOU can become a God (d&c 132), OR that your 'heavenly father' came from a long line of gods?
    We don't believe in MULTIPLE GODS. We believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, who are one God.

    Sorry bubba, but it says no such thing at all.
    Of course it does, redneck. That's what exaltation means.

    NOW are you going to pretend that YOUR church doesn't tell you YOUR jesus and satan (a demon) are 'spirit brothers' of YOUR 'heavenly father?'
    Of course not; there's no pretending involved. My church does not tell me that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers of the Father.

    Weren't they BOTH supposed to have originated as 'spirit babies' to him?
    No.

    Sorry bubba, but it does NOT SAY that God was ever a man.
    Of course it does, redneck. Unless you want to argue that Jesus is not God.

    IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE P***AGE AND ITS CONTEXT you would find that the ones being baptized are UNBELIEVERS who DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. It was NOT the CHRISTIANS who were being baptized for the dead.
    There is nothing in the p***age that indicates that. That only comes from reading it in the context of modern protestant dogma, which context I reject.

    As with the rest of your 'proof-texts' it DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU CLAIM.
    My Bible says ordinances. Are you going to argue against God's Word?

    Which (again) SAYS NO SUCH THING.
    Of course it does. If someone departs from the gospel, they've lost it. So obviously they believe it could happen.

    Which ONCE AGAIN SAYS NO SUCH THING.
    Of course it does. That's what the "falling away" is.

    And AGAIN IT DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOUR RELIGION TELLS YOU.
    Of course it does. "One of these MUST become a witness with us..."

    It does not say ONE THING about 'live, mortal apostles (Paul became #13 btw) in every generation.
    Of course it does, unless you can show that Joseph or Matthias were either dead or immortal, or show the point at which the apostles were supposed to stop.

    You DON'T BELIEVE YOUR RELIGION'S TEACHING that your 'jesus' and 'satan' were both 'spirit babies' fathered by the same 'heavenly father?'
    My religion has no teaching. You just made it up.

  9. #9
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    "We don't believe in MULTIPLE GODS...." .....This statement I have heard before at times here.

    And at first it sure reads like good'old Christian teaching.
    And it can lead to a lot of people ****ing a lot of time back and forth as people may think they are in agreement, and yet in reality they are totally on different sides of a concept.


    The way around this is to go back and follow the advice that Dr Walter Martin used to share whenever he taught Christians how to deal with a member of any CULT.

    "First define your terms"! is what Walter Martin used to say.
    You got to go back to the start, and really define what you mean by each word and phrase or else you will be using the very same words to talk about two totally different things.


    case in point:....the above statement about "Believing" in other gods.
    When a Christian says that they "Don't believe in other gods" what he means is that there are no such things as other gods...
    They do not exist,
    they are not real,
    and that anything you list as being a "god" is fake, or is just a fancy name for something that is important to people, (Like if i say that Satan is "a god", or that "food is a god" , or that being able to sleep in my own bed is like my "god" to me.

    The use of the term "god" is simply a fancy wording that is not talking about a deity at all, but rather is just talking about how important something may be in our lives.....


    This is in-step with the Bible verse that talks about "Lords many and gods many, but to us..."

    For when a Christian reads that verse he reads it as teaching as I have above, ie, no such other "god" is real but only pretend.


    BUT.........BUT for the person in a CULT when they say that they dont "believe" in other gods, what they mean can be totally different!

    For many CULTS hold to the idea that while there are other Gods, and in fact they may even teach that one day they can also become a God themselves,(Mormons) yet they can also say that regardless of this, they dont "believe" in other Gods, because they dont 'worship" any of the other Gods they teach are real.

    So they make the words "Believe" and "worship" out to mean the same thing, and that allows them to use the word "Believe" and give it the hidden meaning to them of "worship"




    This means that like Mormons, they do actually believe in the fact that there are "other" Gods....

    They might not want to admit this however because they do understand that the Christian will regard their teachings as "CRAZY" !


    So the member of a CULT will try to hide around the wording, to make it look to others that he does not believe in "other" gods, while at the same time they yet do.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 06-23-2017 at 04:36 AM.

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    erunder posted:

    Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So you DON'T BELIEVE that YOU can become a God (d&c 132), OR that your 'heavenly father' came from a long line of gods?
    We don't believe in MULTIPLE GODS. We believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, who are one God.


    So these 'NEW gods' don't REALLY BECOME gods at all when you are 'exalted, huh? In other words, you are now trying to tell us YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE mormon THEORY OF EXALTATION. . .I seeeeeeeee.



    Sorry bubba, but it says no such thing at all.


    Of course it does, redneck. That's what exaltation means.

    Oh that's right, the MORMON CULT teaches that, but the GOD OF THE BIBLE DOES NOT. Joe smith INVENTED THAT ONE.





    Of course not; there's no pretending involved. My church does not tell me that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers of the Father.

    Your religion (lds) doesn't tell you that Jesus and satan are both spirit BABIES of your 'heavenly father'? Horse-apples! YOUR RELIGION TELLS YOU THEY ARE.
    Are you calling your religion a liar?

    And your religion (by DOING SO) is telling you that your 'jesus' a family member of the 'family' containing your 'heavenly father' and satan. . .all demons.

    Sorry, but you, blueneck, have been lied to by your religious cult.

    I will continue to pray for you. To the God of the BIBLE, not to a spiritual relative of satan, of course. I will follow the REAL GOD instead. I wish you followed Him too.
    Last edited by Christian; 06-23-2017 at 12:16 PM.

  11. #11
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    So they make the words "Believe" and "worship" out to mean the same thing, and that allows them to use the word "Believe" and give it the hidden meaning to them of "worship"




    This means that like Mormons, they do actually believe in the fact that there are "other" Gods....

    They might not want to admit this however because they do understand that the Christian will regard their teachings as "CRAZY" !


    So the member of a CULT will try to hide around the wording, to make it look to others that he does not believe in "other" gods, while at the same time they yet do.

    a simple search will show you that what Im saying is supported-
    http://www.mormondna.org/mormon-beli...many-gods.html



    "... then yes, we believe there are multiple Gods."

    "However, when we speak of worshiping God, we only speak of one God."

    "Mormons believe there are many Gods, but only believe in one God. Or to put it another way, Mormons know there are many Gods, but only know one God."









    So do you see how the Mormon faith builds itself around their use of tricky wording so as to appear "Christian" while deep down they are not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So these 'NEW gods' don't REALLY BECOME gods at all when you are 'exalted, huh?
    What? Why do you think the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are NEW gods? Who are the old ones?

    Oh that's right, the MORMON CULT teaches that, but the GOD OF THE BIBLE DOES NOT. Joe smith INVENTED THAT ONE.
    The God of the Bible certainly does teach us that.

    Your religion (lds) doesn't tell you that Jesus and satan are both spirit BABIES of your 'heavenly father'?
    Of course not. Your religion (anti-lds) does.

    Horse-apples! YOUR RELIGION TELLS YOU THEY ARE.
    If that were true, you'd be able to cite that teaching. But you can't.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    What? Why do you think the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are NEW gods? .
    I don't think you grasp just how funny this question appears to a Christian in light of the Bible's concept of the Trinity. ..

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    Default the cult lied. . .again

    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    What? Why do you think the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are NEW gods? Who are the old ones?


    The God of the Bible certainly does teach us that.


    Of course not. Your religion (anti-lds) does.


    If that were true, you'd be able to cite that teaching. But you can't.


    I have a BETTER religion than the lds cult has. . .I have the REAL Jesus Christ, not a demon 'spirit-brother' of satan.

    MY religion is THE REAL JESUS CHRIST, THE JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE, not any of the false christs that YOUR CULT teaches exist (formerly exalted men, of course)

    YOUR 'father, son and holy ghost were supposedly originally born MEN, then became 'exalted' and then turned into 'gods.'

    YOUR CULT IS POLYTHEISTIC.

    Jesus (the REAL ONE) is MONOtheistic. The REAL Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD, not 'new' anything.

    Your cult has lied to you. . .again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    YOUR 'father, son and holy ghost were supposedly originally born MEN, then became 'exalted' and then turned into 'gods.'
    False.

    YOUR CULT IS POLYTHEISTIC.
    Right, because we believe in one Jesus Christ. If we believed in multiple Jesus Christs, we'd be monotheistic like you.

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    You STILL aren't up to honest BIBLICAL discussion, I see.

    All you can say is 'duh, false.' 'duh!!!!!

    NOTHING BIBLICAL to support your cultic perversions.

    Conversation ended. You get no more pearls cast before you from me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    All you can say is 'duh, false.'
    If you don't already know what's wrong with your claim, then you are not qualified to criticize my church.

    And if your claim were actually true, then you'd be able to cite that teaching from my church and prove me wrong. But you can't.

    Conversation ended.
    I accept your concession.

  18. #18
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    You STILL aren't up to honest BIBLICAL discussion, I see.

    All you can say is 'duh, false.' 'duh!!!!!

    NOTHING BIBLICAL to support your cultic perversions.

    Conversation ended. You get no more pearls cast before you from me.
    Noticed that too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    If you don't already know what's wrong with your claim, then you are not qualified to criticize my church.

    And if your claim were actually true, then you'd be able to cite that teaching from my church and prove me wrong. But you can't.


    I accept your concession.

    Then you must accept my victory lap as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    victory lap
    This is the first time I've heard that term used to describe a retreat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post

    Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    victory lap
    This is the first time I've heard that term used to describe a retreat.

    No retreat from me. Just refusal to cast pearls before you.

    Total VICTORY in JESUS!



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