mormon salvation = 'saved' from WHAT?

[Christian]

Physical death? Nope. . .mormons die.

Resurrection to judgement? Nope. MOST FOLKS GET JUDGED TO GO TO HELL. THAT IS NOT Biblical 'being saved' from anything.

The TRUTH is that the REAL JESUS CHRIST (not the mormon demon 'jesus') died for our sins, NOT to get us 'resurrected to judgement.' JESUS CHRIST paid the penalty for our sins. THAT is what we are REALLY 'saved from.' The penalty for sin is death. Jesus took that upon HIMSELF for us.

The mormons seem to be confused.

Do you suppose it is that near-relative of their 'jesus,' his 'spirit-brother' satan who wants them to be confused?

[Erundur]

Mormons believe that the atonement of Jesus Christ 1) saves us from physical death (this is called resurrection, and 2) saves us from sin if we exercise faith in Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Mormons believe that the atonement of Jesus Christ 1) saves us from physical death (this is called resurrection, and 2) saves us from sin if we exercise faith in Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end.

And yet ALL MORMONS suffer physical death, and God NEVER required the mormon junk (or YOURSELF) to save yourself from the penalty of your sins. HE only requires FAITH

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

And yet ALL MORMONS suffer physical death

So do ALL PROTESTANTS. Does that mean they're not saved?

and God NEVER required the mormon junk

If I could show you all five items I listed in the Bible, would you believe them?

[Christian]

erunder posted:

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]

And yet ALL MORMONS suffer physical death

So do ALL PROTESTANTS. Does that mean they're not saved?

No, but it DOES MEAN that Biblical Salvation is NOT 'saving' you from physical death as you claimed.

and God NEVER required the mormon junk

If I could show you all five items I listed in the Bible, would you believe them?

I believe EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE. It is your 'private interpretations' of joe smith's that I don't believe.

SHOW ME where ANY CHRISTIANS IN THE ORIGINAL CHURCH (the one joey smith is supposed to have 'restored') ever believed ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE

WHERE did those original CHRISTIANS ever believe in

Christian temples?
being baptized for those who had died?
that you could become a god?
that the REAL GOD was ever an 'exalted man?'
any 'jesus christ' that was a 'spirit baby' of 'heavenly father' as a 'spiritual brother' of satan who was supposedly another 'spirit baby' of 'heavenly father?'

Sorry erunder, but your mormon religion falls flat just like the other 150 or so 'lds' religions do. Yours is no more real than theirs are. And YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE OTHERWISE.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

No, but it DOES MEAN that Biblical Salvation is NOT 'saving' you from physical death as you claimed.

So your claim is that the Bible denies the resurrection?

I believe EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE.

And yet you don't believe the five items I listed even though they're all Biblical.

[Christian]

erunder posted:

Originally Posted by Christian View Post
No, but it DOES MEAN that Biblical Salvation is NOT 'saving' you from physical death as you claimed.

So your claim is that the Bible denies the resurrection?

You are being INTENTIONALLY IGNORANT. No, I am pointing out to you that SALVATION is NOT 'saving you from physical death. YOU WILL PHYSICALLY DIE, just like everyone else.

SALVATION REMAINS reference to the FORGIVENESS OF SINS, paid for by JESUS CHRIST (the REAL ONE) on the cross, nearly 2,000 years ago.

I believe EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE.

And yet you don't believe the five items I listed even though they're all Biblical.

Yet YOU don't seem to have any 'five items' listed that I can find.
Please list them again. . .IF THE BIBLE SAYS IT IN CONTEXT I WILL BELIEVE EVERY WORD OF IT. But of course almost always you throw verses out there OUT OF CONTEXT of what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS.

So REPOST your '5 items' and we will look at them.

In the meantime, please stop playing the 'intentionally ignorant' game. It is not a game worthy of an adult imho

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

You are being INTENTIONALLY IGNORANT.

False. I am asking follow-up questions based on your ignorant statements.

No, I am pointing out to you that SALVATION is NOT 'saving you from physical death.

And I am pointing out that you're wrong. Salvation from physical death = resurrection. And resurrection is Biblical.

Yet YOU don't seem to have any 'five items' listed that I can find.

The are right there in post #2. We are saved from spiritual death if we exercise faith in Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end.

[Christian]

erunder posted:

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
You are being INTENTIONALLY IGNORANT.

False. I am asking follow-up questions based on your ignorant statements.

In YOUR IGNORANCE you claimed salvation meant being saved from PHYSICAL DEATH. I pointed out the fact that you MORMONS DIE just as often as anyone else does.

Nothing 'ignorant' about my response at all

No, I am pointing out to you that SALVATION is NOT 'saving you from physical death.

And I am pointing out that you're wrong. Salvation from physical death = resurrection. And resurrection is Biblical.

So is PHYSICAL DEATH.

Heb 9:27-28
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
NKJV

You must REDEFINE 'salvation' to pretend it means 'from physical death.' You still get judged and condemned to hell.


The are right there in post #2. We are saved from spiritual death if we exercise faith in Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end.[/QUOTE]

Not Biblical at all. We don't (on our own) 'exercise faith. We repent and are Baptized because we have FAITH and have RECEIVED the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and then GOD enables us to endure to the end.

THAT is Biblical.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

In YOUR IGNORANCE you claimed salvation meant being saved from PHYSICAL DEATH.

CFR! Let's see what I actually said.

Not Biblical at all.

Of course they are. Typical anti-Christian tactic: deny, deny, deny, even when the statement is indisputably true.

We don't (on our own) 'exercise faith.

Notice how you had to alter my statement so you could deny Biblical doctrine.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

CFR! Let's see what I actually said.


Of course they are. Typical anti-Christian tactic: deny, deny, deny, even when the statement is indisputably true.


Notice how you had to alter my statement so you could deny Biblical doctrine.

I DO notice that in your ignorance you have quoted NOTHING Biblical at all, but you have given only your own OPINIONS about the Bible.

"indisputably true?" WHAT A JOKE! Since WHEN are your OPINIONS about Biblical doctrine 'indisputable' in ANY WAY AT ALL?

ATTACK THE MESSENGER. You do that when you cannot PRODUCE substantive content.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

I DO notice that in your ignorance you have quoted NOTHING Biblical at all, but you have given only your own OPINIONS about the Bible.

"indisputably true?" WHAT A JOKE! Since WHEN are your OPINIONS about Biblical doctrine 'indisputable' in ANY WAY AT ALL?

It is not my opinion that faith, repentance, baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end at Biblical. It's an objective fact.

ATTACK THE MESSENGER. You do that when you cannot PRODUCE substantive content.

Speaking of not producing substantive content, the CFR is not satisfied.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

HE only requires FAITH

So since Mormons have faith, we must be saved, right?

[Christian]

You can have faith in dog if you wish. It may even get you a bone! If it is a BIG dog it might even protect you from being bitten by a little dog.

Likewise, faith in a 'jesus' that is a demon's 'spirit-brother' won't save you from Hell either.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

You can have faith in dog if you wish.

We have faith in Jesus Christ. Is that good enough for you?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
You can have faith in dog if you wish.

We have faith in Jesus Christ. Is that good enough for you?

Sadly you don't even realize that your 'jesus christ' is the same 'jesus christ' the muslims, white supremecists, oneness pentecostals and other cults have faith in, and NOT the REAL Jesus Christ described in the Bible.

I continue to pray for you.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Sadly you don't even realize that your 'jesus christ' is the same 'jesus christ' the muslims, white supremecists, oneness pentecostals and other cults have faith in, and NOT the REAL Jesus Christ described in the Bible.

As monotheists, we believe there is only one Jesus Christ, so your statement is nonsensical to us.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

As monotheists, .....

Mormons are about as far from being monotheist as you can get!.......LOL

Mono = one , single, lone.


The Bible teaches that while there are tons and tons of things that people can "call" god, there actually is only one God by nature, the rest are all fake.

So the way I define being a mono(one) theist is that you must believe there is only one God.....
You cant dodge around the issue by saying, "We only believe there is one God to worship" if you then also believe there are other gods.

The moment you believe there are other gods you are in the world of the CULTS !

The world of the CULTS has many different ways to sneak in their false teachings...one such false teaching is that there are many Gods and that people can become a god too.

The moment I hear such talk I just smile........

You can call yourself a god all you want....I dont give a rip....You will never be one so it's pointless to claim to be one...
But whatever floats your boat I guess....

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mormons are about as far from being monotheist as you can get!.......LOL

And yet I'm the one ***erting one Jesus Christ, while "Christian" is ***erting multiple Jesus Christs.

So the way I define being a mono(one) theist is that you must believe there is only one God.....

Would that be the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost?

[alanmolstad]

the truth is that guys like Smith and Sun Myung Moon are well known for saying, that they teach about "Jesus" , but the truth is that they teach an invented understanding of our Lord.

Smith and Moon teach a false Jesus....a fake Jesus...

Thus the truth is that while there is only one true Jesus, there are lots and lots of "false Christs (as the Bible warned us about) and yet because Smith and Moon have a clever spiel, they trick their followers into believing in their false Christ.




So what happens to the People like the Mormons or the Moonies when they die and go to judgement?

They come face to face with the very hard fact that you can dpo all kinds of works in the name of a fasle Christ and not have any relationship with the true Lord Jesus at all...


and thus Mormons and Moonies die in sin, unforgiven and unrepentant ........so totally blinded by a con man's story that they had no clue that the very people they were debating all the time were the very same people sent to be their light out of the darkness....

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Smith and Moon teach a false Jesus....a fake Jesus...

Why do you think Jesus Christ is a fake?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Why do you think Jesus Christ is a fake?

The Mormon Jesus is fake because Smith invented it...he lied...
he never saw any angels...
he never dug up any stuff....

It was a con ***.

He was a conman.

His *** was to fool people, thats what this guy did to earn money, evcen way before he came out with his tall-tale about seeing things .

..You already know this to be true.


He was consumed in his lust for younger and younger girls....
He used his position over others in his church to get girls to sleep with him...

He even used to send husbands out of town and then 'drop by" to score with the guy's wife.

You already know this as well....
Im not saying anything you have not already known to be true.

Smith invented these teachings about Jesus that are different than what the Bible and the Christian church teach.

But if this is so, Why do Mormons believe him?
The idea of learning a hidden truth, or a new teaching is very attractive to many people, and they wanted to get in on the hidden truths that Smith was telling people he knew...and that is why CULTS like the Mormon church grow, for it appeals to that darker side of our human nature.


Smith's Jesus is a "fake Jesus" because it is invented by Smith to be different, and thus It runs counter to the Bible's revelation.




thats why the Mormon Jesus is fake.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The Mormon Jesus is fake because Smith invented it...

You think Jesus Christ was invented by Joseph Smith? We disagree with you.

He was consumed in his lust for younger and younger girls....
He used his position over others in his church to get girls to sleep with him...

I think you're projecting.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

You think Jesus Christ was invented by Joseph Smith? .

Mormon teachings on the person of Jesus were invented by a conman named Smith to fool people, gain power over them, and get money, as well as the ability to sleep with their wives and at times, their daughters.

You already know all Im saying is the truth.





There is a real Jesus that is unknown to the Mormon religion....

It's unknown because the real Jesus was replaced in the hearts of the Mormon member with a false concept of our Lord......and when the Mormon believes in this false Jesus he is still in sin, and is unforgiven....

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mormon teachings on the person of Jesus were invented by a conman named Smith to fool people, gain power over them, and get money, as well as the ability to sleep with their wives and at times, their daughters.

Easy to claim; harder to prove. Anyway, I think you're just projecting a Protestant mindset onto Joseph.

You already know all Im saying is the truth.

I know what you're saying is false.