mormon salvation = 'saved' from WHAT?

[Christian]

erunder posted:

Originally Posted byalanmolstad[IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
Mormon teachings on the person of Jesus were invented by a conman named Smith to fool people, gain power over them, and get money, as well as the ability to sleep with their wives and at times, their daughters.

Easy to claim; harder to prove. Anyway, I think you're just projecting a Protestant mindset onto Joseph.

I know what you're saying is false.

Said with head buried in sand. . .

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Would that be the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost?

Not "or", but "and"....The one God of the Bible is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Not "or", but "and"....The one God of the Bible is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

And that's who Mormons believe in. So is that monotheism or polytheism?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

And that's who Mormons believe in. So is that monotheism or polytheism?

If a person holds that there are other gods...they are not "mono" theistic ....

It dont matter squat that they worship only one, or two or just a handful out of millions...

It dont matter.......





It dont matter for they have left the teachings of the Bible and have followed some other guy's dreamed-up inventions.



Smith dreamed it up....
Smith dreamed up all kinds of stories to fool people. That is how he earned money during his life before he started pushing the religious stuff.
Smith used to claim to be able to do some type of magic trick, (Like look at a stone in a hat) and convince people that if they paid him a fee he would be able to find buried treasure on their land....


Is anyone truly shocked to learn that later in his life he would then claim to have found a hidden secret book?



Is anyone truly shocked that a guy known to try to score with lots and lots of girls, might send a few husbands out of town so as to get them out of the way?




Is anyone truly shocked that a guy who was able to convince husbands and fathers into turning a blind eye to his bed-hoping would then later claim to be doing greater works than Jesus?...

or to claim himself to be a god?


No, none of us should be shocked to learn about all this stuff Smith got into, because that is the kind of monster we know he was...

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If a person holds that there are other gods...they are not "mono" theistic ....

So if someone believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost they are not monotheistic, is that right?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

So if someone believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost they are not monotheistic, is that right?

If a person holds to the idea that there is more than one God, (The names of these other gods is of no concern to me) then by my definition that person is not monotheistic.


It's that simple...



It does not matter squat if the person later tried to hide behind the idea that while they understand there are many other gods, they only worship one of them.
If a person actually holds to the idea that there are other gods, they are not monotheistic case-closed.





All that Im saying is already known to you.

Now we had a Mormon here that always tried to be clever and use clever wordings to twist things around, and if I were talking to him on this subject Im sure he would now at this point post something like - "But Alan you believe in the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, so you must believe in 3 gods then ?"


Like I said, we 'had' a person like that around here.....He didn't last long it seems.

I got nothing against people who want to ask me questions or who want to talk about their own religion, that is what this place is all about.
But I just dont got the time needed to deal with people that regardless of what is said simply try to twist words in clever ways, all the while fleeing the truth that they already know confronts them.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If a person holds to the idea that there is more than one God, (The names of these other gods is of no concern to me) then by my definition that person is not monotheistic.

Mormons say the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God. So are we monotheistic or polytheistic?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Mormons say the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God. So are we monotheistic or polytheistic?

Mormons ALSO SAY that you can BECOME A GOD just as mormons ALSO SAY that others have become gods too.

THAT MAKES MORMONS POLYTHEISTIC.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Mormons ALSO SAY that you can BECOME A GOD just as mormons ALSO SAY that others have become gods too.

THAT MAKES MORMONS POLYTHEISTIC.

Okay, so someone who believes in gods other than God is polytheistic. Would that include the gods of Psalm 82?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Okay, so someone who believes in gods other than God is polytheistic. Would that include the gods of Psalm 82?

Yes, if a person believes that there is more than one God, that means they are polytheistic.

That is also why Psalm 82 is not talking about Gods by nature, but is as I said before, a ***le given to things that have great power over others.
In the case of Psalm 82 we are simply talking about judges that are judging in error.....

In effect, God is mocking them.


So Psalm 82 can not be used to support the Mormon idea that there are many Gods.





Got anything else?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Yes, if a person believes that there is more than one God, that means they are polytheistic.

Okay, so if someone believes the Bible, they are polytheistic.

That is also why Psalm 82 is not talking about Gods by nature, but is as I said before, a ***le given to things that have great power over others.

Psalm 82 doesn't say that, and there's no exception in the definition of "polytheist" for gods who aren't gods by nature.

[alanmolstad]

if you note, the psalm 82 starts out talking about the "great ***embly", and this is a known reference to the type of ruling system in place at the time.

The text then goes on to talk about the main issue the was going wrong with these guys, when they would show - " partiality to the wicked".

The text then goes on to encourage the same men to - "Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked."....so we are in fact talking about the rulers in charge at the time who were doing what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and who were being instructed to do good.

Finally the fate of these men is shown at - "“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7
But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler."

Notice they will die just like every other "ruler"




The text clearly teaches that these were just the rulers in power at the time....and God is mocking them and their claims of being important.





I believe that this verses is talked about during the debate on the doorstep with a Mormon that is performed by Mr Ed Decker and Dr Walter Martin.

Im not totally sure, but I seem to remember that recording is where Martin talks about what this verse is talking about, and if I have time I will try to review the recording and post it here so that you and anyone else interested in understanding this section of the Bible can listen to it and get up to speed.

[alanmolstad]

if you note, the psalm 82 starts out talking about the "great ***embly", and this is a known reference to the type of ruling system in place at the time.

The text then goes on to talk about the main issue the was going wrong with these guys, when they would show - " partiality to the wicked".

The text then goes on to encourage the same men to - "Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked."....so we are in fact talking about the rulers in charge at the time who were doing what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and who were being instructed to do good.

Finally the fate of these men is shown at - "“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7
But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler."

Notice they will die just like every other "ruler"




The text clearly teaches that these were just the rulers in power at the time....and God is mocking them and their claims of being important.





I believe that this verses is talked about during the debate on the doorstep with a Mormon that is performed by Mr Ed Decker and Dr Walter Martin.

Im not totally sure, but I seem to remember that recording is where Martin talks about what this verse is talking about, and if I have time I will try to review the recording and post it here so that you and anyone else interested in understanding this section of the Bible can listen to it and get up to speed.

[alanmolstad]

Also check The Kingdom of the Cults page 219, Im told its relevant,,,,

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Also check The Kingdom of the Cults page 219

Due to the late hr I have not had a chance yet to review the Ed Decker/Walter martin debate to find where they deal with the Psalm verse, but I was doing a web-search and I found lots of stuff on this verse that I will be posting about later...

Like - https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfob...and-john-1034/


The fun part to see is justr how closely my own wordings were to the works i have seen so far...LOL-

"Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great ***embly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule."

[alanmolstad]

But to just sum up -

There are many things and people that can be called 'god', in the context that they have great power over others.
In the Bible some judges are called a god because they have such a powerfull control over people, power of life and death as it were.

But they are not gods by nature, they are always human and will always be human...LOL

Thus you can't use the Psalm 82 verse to support the crazy idea that there is more than one God ...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Mormons say the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God. So are we monotheistic or polytheistic?

If a person believes in more than one god, then they are NOT monotheistic.....


so ask yourself, "Do the Mormons hold to the teaching that there are many gods?"
If you believe the answer is "yes" then that means they are polytheistic.


"Do the Mormons hold to the teaching that humans can become gods?"
If you believe the answer is "yes" then that means they are polytheistic.



It's that simple...

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

And yet I'm the one ***erting one Jesus Christ, while "Christian" is ***erting multiple Jesus Christs.


Would that be the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost?

JESUS (THE REAL ONE not your satanic one) said:

Matt 24:23-25
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
NKJV

It would appear that your FALSE PROPHET told you that there are no false christs. YOUR CULT HAS LIED TO YOU. . .again

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

JESUS (THE REAL ONE not your satanic one) said:

We don't have a satanic Jesus. We disagree with you that Jesus Christ is satanic.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

We don't have a satanic Jesus. We disagree with you that Jesus Christ is satanic.

Yet YOUR VERSION of YOUR 'jesus christ' is supposed to be a 'spirit-brother' to your 'jesus christ,' isn't that correct?

Doesn't that make the 'brother' of a demon, one of the same kind? Playing some 'magical' word games are you?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Yet YOUR VERSION of YOUR 'jesus christ' is supposed to be a 'spirit-brother' to your 'jesus christ,' isn't that correct?

No, it isn't.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

No, it isn't.

Even in the silly attempt of the Mormon church to duck around this teaching, they yet admit it's true...

According to Mormon teaching, Satan and Jesus Christ are brothers...


http://mormonvoices.org/1/jesus-brother-of-satan

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Originally Posted by Christian View Post
Yet YOUR VERSION of YOUR 'jesus christ' is supposed to be a 'spirit-brother' to your 'jesus christ,' isn't that correct?

No, it isn't.

Okay, I got distracted by a telephone call from The Navy in Arlington VA and worded it incorrectly

Yet YOUR VERSION of YOUR 'jesus christ' is supposed to be a 'spirit-brother to your 'satan,' NOW isn't that correct?

Or did your religion lie to you yet again?

And you continue to play little nit-picky word-games. YOU KNEW what I meant despite my typo, but you ran away from addressing it.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Yet YOUR VERSION of YOUR 'jesus christ' is supposed to be a 'spirit-brother to your 'satan,' NOW isn't that correct?

Yep, and all of us, too.

And you continue to play little nit-picky word-games. YOU KNEW what I meant despite my typo, but you ran away from addressing it.

I answered the question you asked because I know anti-Mormons get very upset if we answer the question you should have asked.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Yep, and all of us, too.


I answered the question you asked because I know anti-Mormons get very upset if we answer the question you should have asked.

You anti-Christians don't like to obey the rules do you? "anti-mormons' is not allowed here.

You KNEW that but you continue to violate the rule with your lie anyway.

That tells a LOT about your cultic religion's honesty. . .