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Thread: Any heathen can start a religion

  1. #26

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    The search for the truth of God, always starts and ends with the Scriptures...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    …7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

    8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse!

    9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!…
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    Ironically, Paul was saying something that was not true... or to state it another way; “an impossibility”. Paul was relying on hyperbole to make a point, he was not trying to create or relay doctrine, which is how you are interpreting it to read. Read the commentaries, even they admit that it would be impossible for God to send an angel to lie to the people, for that would make God culpable in the lie, and therefore a lier. You can easily make mistakes like this when you do not read the verses carefully.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    so, as the verse I have posted above clearly states, it really does not matter that someone was convinced that it was a messenger from God that gave them their personal revelation.

    In the end, the revelation has to agree with what we have already received in the New Testament Gospel.

    The revelation has to agree,,,
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    Ahhhh.... you do realize don’t you that you just sunk your own argument???
    If the Bereans or the Galatians searched the scriptures in order to compare them against what Paul was saying, it certainly wasn’t the New Testament, as that didn’t even exist. Really, I was hoping you were a little more Bible literate with which to sharpen my skills against... instead I get nonsensical rantings from you which contradict itself.
    Last edited by theway; 10-21-2019 at 05:52 PM.

  4. #29

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    "IF"?

    They "did" put all of Paul's teachings and words to the test of scripture.

    This is the very same test we should put all teaching up against..
    Thius is why i always ask people to take my words and compare them to what the Bible says

  5. #30

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    so this is why whenever we may hear of a story of a messenger sent from God to us we have to do as the Bible teaches us, and compare what this messenger says to what the Bible says.

    So it does not matter squat that a person might be 100% convinced that the messenger is truly from the Lord, you still have to put to the test all that the messenger says.

    If it is in disagreement?...reject it!

  6. #31

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    once again, the search of truth about God is found first and last with the Bible

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    "IF"?

    They "did" put all of Paul's teachings and words to the test of scripture.

    This is the very same test we should put all teaching up against..
    Thius is why i always ask people to take my words and compare them to what the Bible says
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    Compare it with whose understanding of the Bible??? The Bible as understood by the Catholics? Or the Bible as understood by the Jews? Or the Bible as understood by the mainline Protestants? the Bible as understood by the Orthodox Church? The Bible as understood by the various Gnostics? The Bible as understood by the Modern Evangelicals? the Bible as understood by the Calvinists? The Bible as understood by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? Or the Bible as understood by the Historians on the History Channel? Or the Bible as understood by the Seventh day Adventist’s? Or the Bible as understood by the Unitarians? Or the Bible as understood by Alan who posts on the Walter Martin’s forum? just which understanding of the Bible are we to compare it against?
    That also begs the question??? What if a person doesn’t have access to a Bible? Can they be saved? or what if they have access to the Bible but want to be saved before they read it?.... is that likewise possible?
    I don’t expect for you to get it, but those who are Lurking here will instantly see the holes in your “It begins and ends with the Bible” nonsensical theory.
    If you only want a partial truth of the Bible, then simply read the Bible. But if you are seeking for the Real Truth, then read the Bible with fasting, prayer, with all available commentaries and from different perspectives, but most important, seek for personal revelation and confirmation of the Holy Ghost when reading the Bible.
    After all, this is what happened to Joseph Smith. Joseph studied the Bible, yet because the different Christian sects of his day all interpreted it differently, he didn’t know which version of the truth of the Bible to believe, so he took it to the Lord... James 1:5.
    Last edited by theway; 10-22-2019 at 06:29 AM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    so this is why whenever we may hear of a story of a messenger sent from God to us we have to do as the Bible teaches us, and compare what this messenger says to what the Bible says.
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    Once again you are in error Alan.
    Ironically, you should have taken your own advice and compared your statement against what the scriptures actually said before you posted it.
    Paul did not say to compare it with the Bible, he said to compare it with the gospel that he and others had previously preached to them. Because as I already pointed out, the Bible as we know it did not even exist at that time.
    Last edited by theway; 10-22-2019 at 06:24 AM.

  9. #34

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    " Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true."

    the key here is found in the words - "and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true"


    This shows us how to judge the words of our teachers.
    We take what they say and compare it with the Scriptures ...

    So it does not matter squat what the "claim" of the teacher is.

    Nor does it matter what "hype" comes with the teacher or his teachings.
    A teacher can say, "And the heavens opened up and I heard the voice of an angel" and it does not matter.

    And it also does not matter that with the teachings came all types of reported wonders, and stories of healing or people hearing all sorts of good-sounding comments from people they trust.

    all that is a moot point if the final result of the teaching can not be checked out and in agreement like what the scriptures say as was done with the teachings of Paul.


    This is why I always ask people to put to the test of scripture my own teachings of what I claim the Bible says and to find out if things are truly in the Bible as I claim?


    I can ask no more of anyone that to test my words the same way the words of Paul were tested..

  10. #35

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    The question was asked -
    "That also begs the question??? What if a person doesn’t have access to a Bible? Can they be saved?"


    Here is the answer:
    I will post a video of Dr Walter Martin tonight that goes over this question and give us a very clear answer..


    Until then.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    The question was asked -
    "That also begs the question??? What if a person doesn’t have access to a Bible? Can they be saved?"


    Here is the answer:
    I will post a video of Dr Walter Martin tonight that goes over this question and give us a very clear answer..


    Until then.....
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    LOL.... now wait a minute... I asked you a question related to one's salvation, for which you have claimed that all such doctrine "begins and ends with the Bible...." and yet, you divert from the Bible to someone who has no authority at all to speak for God. I will ignore the video because I have found that WM does not even understand the Bible. However since I view you on the same level as him, suppose you just give me the answer. Can a person be saved who has never had the opportunity to know Jesus or the Bible?

  13. #38

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    you asked about the salvation of people that do not ever have a chance to read the Bible?

    The answer appears in the Bible.....

    The search for all such answers about the true God, always starts and ends with the Scriptures....case-closed.

  14. #39

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    and to make sure you get a chance to hear what Dr Walter Martin taught on the topic, I will post the video again tonight.

    until then....

  15. #40

  16. #41

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    notice that at all times, that the answer the Dr Walter Martin gives to this question is always 100% backed with scripture.

    All answers to such questions must be so supported.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    you asked about the salvation of people that do not ever have a chance to read the Bible?

    The answer appears in the Bible.....

    The search for all such answers about the true God, always starts and ends with the Scriptures....case-closed.
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    LOL... So because you do not have an answer, you resort to equivocation in both my question and in your attempt to answer.

    I only added Jesus in my question because your video ***le did... and I only said Bible because I thought you only considered the Bible as scripture.

    Let’s try it again, and this time without your games or attempts at diverting to someone else.

    Can a person be saved without the Bible?

  18. #43

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    Q - "Can a person be saved without the Bible? "

    A - Walter Martin talks about such questions in a video I will post later this day...

    Stay tuned!

  19. #44

  20. #45

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    again, all things always have to be checked out and supported by scripture!

    This is how a person can know they are saved...It's not by just their personal "feelings" , for lots of people can "feel" they are saved and yet be still in their sins for they have trusted in a false Jesus not found in the bible.

    But the truly saved can rest in the confidence that Jesus that they believe is supported by scripture!
    Last edited by alan; 10-26-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    again, all things always have to be checked out and supported by scripture!

    This is how a person can know they are saved...It's not by just their personal "feelings" , for lots of people can "feel" they are saved and yet be still in their sins for they have trusted in a false Jesus not found in the bible.

    But the truly saved can rest in the confidence that Jesus that they believe is supported by scripture!
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    Again, for the Lurkers out there... notice how Alan can not even support his own argument, but instead, diverts to an answer to a question I never even asked

    Alan’s reply: “...all things have to be checked out and supported by scripture!”

    We all know why he did this, it’s because any real answer he gives... no matter which side he takes; he’ll destroy his whole theology.
    So what does he do, he tells you to take your question to Walter Martin, so that Walter can take the fall for his failed beliefs, and Alan will blame him for it.
    But let’s try again so we can see Alan squirm once more...

    Can a person be saved without the Bible?

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  23. #48
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    LOL.... Of course the doctrine of Cheap Grace [Faith Alone] is denied by all those that you see as a cult... but then, Cheap Grace is also denied by 88% of those who claim to be Christian as well.
    The irony is that those of us who believe in a living faith, not a dead faith like you, see you as the cult.

  24. #49

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    Notice what Walter says at 2:22

    This is the answer to any question about a person's path to salvation.




    ENJOY THE VIDEO,

    I shall be posting more on this later
    >>>>

    Last edited by alan; 10-27-2019 at 08:24 PM.

  25. #50
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    Hello Alan and Way,

    I would like to make a comment based on the following two scriptures.
    "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44
    "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17
    It is God who draws a man and the Holy Spirit who testafies to the truth of the Gospel otherwise no one
    would be saved. Does a man have to physically read the Bible to be saved? No but he must have the Word of God,
    written or spoken to believe the Gospel as Rom. 10:17 states.


    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
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    LOL.... now wait a minute... I asked you a question related to one's salvation, for which you have claimed that all such doctrine "begins and ends with the Bible...." and yet, you divert from the Bible to someone who has no authority at all to speak for God. I will ignore the video because I have found that WM does not even understand the Bible. However since I view you on the same level as him, suppose you just give me the answer. Can a person be saved who has never had the opportunity to know Jesus or the Bible?

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