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Thread: Identifying a Christian

  1. #26
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    No, it's a stupid and irrational point, given his twisting of Scripture.
    But I see you have no answer.

  2. #27
    Vlad III
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    This is why I think it is presumptive for mainstream Christians to hold to the idea of OSAS.
    Yes, but they have their 'out'...it's the caveat that, "Well, if they decide to leave the mainstream christian church they weren't really saved in the first place."

  3. #28
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    This is a really good thread....... first of all most of believe that libby is saved. And if she is saved god will woo her until she is where she should be. to be saved all one must do is believe in their heart that jesus is God and that he came to redeem us from our sins. That his bought us with the price of his own blood so that we wouldn't have to pay for our own sins. libby confessed with her mouth and believed with her heart. She is saved as far as I"m concerned......... the fruits of the spirit are love joy peace patience kindness, goodness faithfulness gentleness and self control. against such thinkgs there isno law. gal 5:22-23

  4. #29
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad III View Post
    Yes, but they have their 'out'...it's the caveat that, "Well, if they decide to leave the mainstream christian church they weren't really saved in the first place."
    And this actually means that no one really knows if they were really saved in the first place. Because any of them could commit the one and only 'unpardonable sin' of having a change of heart and joining the LDS Church. No one knows for sure what the future holds.


  5. #30
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    And this actually means that no one really knows if they were really saved in the first place. Because any of them could commit the one and only 'unpardonable sin' of having a change of heart and joining the LDS Church. No one knows for sure what the future holds.

    ---And that is the extremely salient--and dangerous--truth that Calvinists do not want to face, IMO. Because it militates against OSAS or OBIS or both. How can anyone claim to know they are irrevocably saved, if it's possible that they might "fall away" next year?

  6. #31
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Yes you are double-minded, because God cannot be both an infinite spirit, as the Bible points out, and an exalted human being, with physical features that came to be what he is.
    Why not? I believe God is infinite spirit with an exalted/celestial body. There is nothing in the Bible that refutes that possibility.

    Moreover, Jesus cannot be a part of the godhead and have a totally different essence than God.
    I agree. I'm not sure what you're saying. I don't believe Jesus has a different essence than Heavenly Father....or us, for that matter. We are all, in essence, spiritual beings.

    Since when it is God's will that one of His own join a religious organization where he/she can engage in blasphemy as a part of his/her recognition of Him? Can you show me that somewhere in Scripture Libby?
    Of course not. And, I certainly wouldn't align myself with any organization that I believed was engaging in blasphemy.

  7. #32
    Libby
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    Fig, I meant to tell you that was a really good observation about repentance. That is the core "fruit" of rebirth. Not something that comes from satan, that's for sure.

  8. #33
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post

    ---And that is the extremely salient--and dangerous--truth that Calvinists do not want to face, IMO. Because it militates against OSAS or OBIS or both. How can anyone claim to know they are irrevocably saved, if it's possible that they might "fall away" next year?
    Yes...this indicates to me that "enduring to the end" is really much more meaningful.

  9. #34
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by anita View Post
    This is a really good thread....... first of all most of believe that libby is saved. And if she is saved god will woo her until she is where she should be. to be saved all one must do is believe in their heart that jesus is God and that he came to redeem us from our sins. That his bought us with the price of his own blood so that we wouldn't have to pay for our own sins. libby confessed with her mouth and believed with her heart. She is saved as far as I"m concerned......... the fruits of the spirit are love joy peace patience kindness, goodness faithfulness gentleness and self control. against such thinkgs there isno law. gal 5:22-23

    Thank you, dear friend.

  10. #35
    SavedbyTruth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Excuse me, but it is not at all difficult to prove that Mormons are not what they claim to be, given the mountains of evidence that they have provided all these years. And it is because Christians can point out the evidence that Mormons, such as yourself, go into PR damage control mode, even to the extent of denying your own material and leaders. So, don't be sitting there lying to everyone about Christians not being able to disprove Mormon claims. The proof is there for anyone with eyes open enough to see it. To the rest, all they can do is lie, obfuscate, and engage in ad hominem attacks to try and avoid looking at the proof.
    Your "evidence" is ***embled by man. Our evidence comes from God. God trumps man every time. Don't you agree?

  11. #36
    SavedbyTruth
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickPreacher View Post
    God is overall SbT-- You ask a HUGE question here-

    I was a Christian Born-Again at age 18 never knowing nothing about the LDS but after a year joined the Mormons in 1973.

    And I was an active Member until 1991. I remained active until I left.
    I discussed my concerns with many LDS friends, my Bishop, and Stake Pres. over about a five year period before leaving.

    They all invited me to stay LDS because it was nothing I was doing that contradicted LDS Church Standards-- to them it appeared to only be doctrinal ideas. Eventually it became frustrating to me because they could not seem to relate to my Spiritural Journey - or see it as important.

    My initial official efforts of leaving the LDS Church were stalled by the local leadership who knew me. Part of this was due to my former wife's request-- because she also felt that I was being nutty over religious ideas that were in no way practical. She felt that I was destroying my life socially by being a religious nut--She got a lot out of the LDS Social life in the Ward and did not want to leave that for anything. Eventually she jumped ship and left for another man with like views, so I did not have to worry about that negative social aspect of leaving the LDS anymore. So I moved to an area where the Stake and Ward did not know me. That way the paper work went through.

    I had a lot of benefits from being LDS socially and temporally for many years-- but to me eventually I was ideologically in deep conflict with LDS doctrines.

    I also came into conflict with some of the LDS beliefs of how God is thought to give blessings based on D&C 130

    About one year before leaving my LDS experience was horrible-- but other than that for 15 years the Church was a big social help to me as a person.
    But later when I understood 'systematic theology' what I saw as errors in Mormon theology horrified me. I think that it takes a lot of insight to see these elements of Mormonism as non-Christian. Most who are LDS IMO do not have a clue as to why Evangelicals call Mormonism non-Christian.-- Many who call Mormons non-Christian in society sometimes also cannot explain why.

    IMO certain LDS doctrines portray Christ as God in such a way that He would not have he power to atone us. Again it takes a lot of insight and reasoning to come to that conclusion, which is not within the interest nor scope of ability for some people.

    Being out of the loop as a Mormon has been beneficial for my relationship with God. God immediately began to bless me. And continues to do so all the time. It is a much different experience with God as a non-Mormon Evangelical Christian. The way that I respond and work out my salvation is on a much different level-- direct and personal as an Evangelical Christian.
    I appreciate very much that you have shared your story. To give this type of length to your spiritual travels shows how important it really is to you personally. It seems you have also spoken from your heart, and I thank you.

    I noticed you mentioned God is overall. I believe the same thing. I have faith in my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose resurrection we celebrate tomorrow. You became a Christian the moment you believed at the age of 18. I became Christian as a young girl in the Lutheran church. You have changed affiliation from main stream, to LDS, and back again to main stream. I changed from main stream to LDS. Neither of us has ever lost our faith in Jesus. We worship Him within the realm of the church we each have chosen. We serve Him by living Christian lives and following His example. We are both Christian.

    SavedbyTruth

  12. #37
    Administrator Jill's Avatar
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    You can believe whatever you wish but that doesn't make it true. Historical Christianity never taught that God was an "exalted man"; it never taught that Jesus was NOT conceived by the Holy Spirit. These are inventions of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, and they are blasphemous (and certainly heretical). If you have the wrong Jesus, you are not a Christian.

    Mormonism is not Christian because its doctrine is not biblical and historical Christian doctrine. Words mean things. Without definitions, we have chaos. A heart is a heart, not a lung. If you were to tell me a heart helps us breathe, I would think you were either confused or uneducated in terms of anatomy.

    In the same way, Christianity is not a term that can be redefined and rearranged by whoever happens to come along and think they know better. Sorry, but history cannot be erased so easily. The definition of Christianity, its doctrines and defense of the faith, are easily found in more than 2000 years worth of Church history. God the Father was never an exalted man and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

    Christianity thrived for 2000 years--it never needed to be "restored" by anyone.
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

  13. #38
    Vlad III
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    You can believe whatever you wish but that doesn't make it true. Historical Christianity never taught that God was an "exalted man"; it never taught that Jesus was NOT conceived by the Holy Spirit. These are inventions of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, and they are blasphemous (and certainly heretical). If you have the wrong Jesus, you are not a Christian.

    Mormonism is not Christian because its doctrine is not biblical and historical Christian doctrine. Words mean things. Without definitions, we have chaos. A heart is a heart, not a lung. If you were to tell me a heart helps us breathe, I would think you were either confused or uneducated in terms of anatomy.

    In the same way, Christianity is not a term that can be redefined and rearranged by whoever happens to come along and think they know better. Sorry, but history cannot be erased so easily. The definition of Christianity, its doctrines and defense of the faith, are easily found in more than 2000 years worth of Church history. God the Father was never an exalted man and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

    Christianity thrived for 2000 years--it never needed to be "restored" by anyone.
    So what's the 2000 year old definition of Christianity?

  14. #39
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    You can believe whatever you wish but that doesn't make it true. Historical Christianity never taught that God was an "exalted man"; it never taught that Jesus was NOT conceived by the Holy Spirit. These are inventions of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, and they are blasphemous (and certainly heretical). If you have the wrong Jesus, you are not a Christian.

    Mormonism is not Christian because its doctrine is not biblical and historical Christian doctrine. Words mean things. Without definitions, we have chaos. A heart is a heart, not a lung. If you were to tell me a heart helps us breathe, I would think you were either confused or uneducated in terms of anatomy.

    In the same way, Christianity is not a term that can be redefined and rearranged by whoever happens to come along and think they know better. Sorry, but history cannot be erased so easily. The definition of Christianity, its doctrines and defense of the faith, are easily found in more than 2000 years worth of Church history. God the Father was never an exalted man and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

    Christianity thrived for 2000 years--it never needed to be "restored" by anyone.
    I can certainly respect that other Christians have differing views about Jesus Christ and some different interpretations of the Bible, but I don't see those differing views as making anyone less Christian. Christians follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible (as best they know how) and that is what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are striving to do (albeit, imperfectly, but that is the intent..to be disciples of Christ)..

  15. #40
    Administrator Jill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I can certainly respect that other Christians have differing views about Jesus Christ and some different interpretations of the Bible, but I don't see those differing views as making anyone less Christian. Christians follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible (as best they know how) and that is what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are striving to do (albeit, imperfectly, but that is the intent..to be disciples of Christ)..
    They are disciples of a christ who was not conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is not the Jesus of the Bible.

    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

    It is not a matter of "respecting" differing views. It is a matter of doctrine. The Apostle Paul taught that Christians must "guard" Christian doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16; ***us 1:9; 2:1) to keep it from being redefined.

    People don't get to interpret the Bible any way they please. There are ancient rules for interpretation and ancient definitions of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, Salvation, etc.

    The Mormons worship a Jesus who was not conceived by the Holy Spirit. Christians worship the true Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

  16. #41
    Administrator Jill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad III View Post
    So what's the 2000 year old definition of Christianity?
    I'll start with this, Vlad.

    1. God is the one and only God. There is no other God and there will never be any other "gods". He is ominiscient, omnipotent, and ominipresent. He is spirit only--he was never an exalted man.

    "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:10

    "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

  17. #42
    dfoJC
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    Could someone please answer me a question? Perhaps I am a bit confused!

    On the one hand Joseph Smith has an encounter with "God." In that encounter he is told that all churches are "apostate." And that he should join none of them.

    But now we have well meaning mormons wanting to be called "christians." Am I missing something here?

    Why, as a mormon, do you now want to be part of what is considered "apostate" by mormonism? Is it because for whatever reason you separate "christian" from "church?"

    I don't mean to derail this thread, but this is something that I find curious.....

    with kind regards,
    dfoJC

  18. #43
    Vlad III
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    They are disciples of a christ who was not conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is not the Jesus of the Bible.

    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

    It is not a matter of "respecting" differing views. It is a matter of doctrine. The Apostle Paul taught that Christians must "guard" Christian doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16; ***us 1:9; 2:1) to keep it from being redefined.

    People don't get to interpret the Bible any way they please. There are ancient rules for interpretation and ancient definitions of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, Salvation, etc.

    The Mormons worship a Jesus who was not conceived by the Holy Spirit. Christians worship the true Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
    So in order to be a Christian, you must believe that the Holy Spirit is actually the Father of Jesus, NOT God the Father.

    LDS believe the scriptures that teach that Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost. But we also understand that the Father is the Father. We don't know how, which makes it part of the miracle. But it doesn't make us non-Christian becasue we believe Jesus when He speaks of the father being His father.

  19. #44
    Vlad III
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfoJC View Post
    Could someone please answer me a question? Perhaps I am a bit confused!

    On the one hand Joseph Smith has an encounter with "God." In that encounter he is told that all churches are "apostate." And that he should join none of them.

    But now we have well meaning mormons wanting to be called "christians." Am I missing something here?

    Why, as a mormon, do you now want to be part of what is considered "apostate" by mormonism? Is it because for whatever reason you separate "christian" from "church?"

    I don't mean to derail this thread, but this is something that I find curious.....

    with kind regards,
    dfoJC
    It's simple. Mormons are Christians according to any Biblical standard/ definition. It isn't that the LDS church wants to be considered 'a part' of mainstream Christianity. We only want mainstream Christianity to stop trying to consider us non-Christians based on their many additions to the litmus test of who can or cannot be called a Christian.

  20. #45
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    I'll start with this, Vlad.

    1. God is the one and only God. There is no other God and there will never be any other "gods". He is ominiscient, omnipotent, and ominipresent. He is spirit only--he was never an exalted man.

    "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:10

    "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24
    "Before me, there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

    The Lord is speaking to Israel. Israel has only One God. Israel had no God before God, and Israel will have no God after God. All this is true, Jill.

    Man is also spirit. That is why we can worship God in spirit and in truth.

  21. #46
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    They are disciples of a christ who was not conceived by the Holy Spirit. This is not the Jesus of the Bible.

    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18
    It's not the Holy Ghost's Child. It's the Son of God the Father?

    16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Last edited by Fig-bearing Thistle; 04-11-2009 at 10:50 PM.

  22. #47
    Libby
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    It is not a matter of "respecting" differing views. It is a matter of doctrine. The Apostle Paul taught that Christians must "guard" Christian doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16; ***us 1:9; 2:1) to keep it from being redefined.
    But, who gets to define "doctrine"? LDS believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and we define him and his doctrine through that Holy Book, and through living Prophets. Joseph Smith never said the church he established was not Christian...just the opposite. It is restored Christianity. Restored...which, from an LDS perspective means that Christian doctrine has been protected...by God, Himself.

    I mean, other Christians can disagree that Christianity needed a restoration, but they cannot deny that LDS are Christians.

    "we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins” (2 Nephi 25:23, 26).

  23. #48
    SavedbyTruth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    You can believe whatever you wish but that doesn't make it true. Historical Christianity never taught that God was an "exalted man"; it never taught that Jesus was NOT conceived by the Holy Spirit. These are inventions of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, and they are blasphemous (and certainly heretical). If you have the wrong Jesus, you are not a Christian.

    Mormonism is not Christian because its doctrine is not biblical and historical Christian doctrine. Words mean things. Without definitions, we have chaos. A heart is a heart, not a lung. If you were to tell me a heart helps us breathe, I would think you were either confused or uneducated in terms of anatomy.

    In the same way, Christianity is not a term that can be redefined and rearranged by whoever happens to come along and think they know better. Sorry, but history cannot be erased so easily. The definition of Christianity, its doctrines and defense of the faith, are easily found in more than 2000 years worth of Church history. God the Father was never an exalted man and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

    Christianity thrived for 2000 years--it never needed to be "restored" by anyone.
    I'm sorry Jill, but you are incorrect. There is plenty of evidence in the languages which the Bible was written, that the LDS are not the first to teach the things we believe about the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. It is man who wanted to shape what they wanted people to know about or believe about the Godhead which has lead Christianity astray. For a young, uneducated boy to know these things is very strong evidence which YOU can touch and read and ponder about. Even so, it is the Holy Ghost who will testify these truths to you. You are stuck in the spiritually blind prison created by man. Man kept enough of the truth to convince others that what they teach you is correct. But you have been fooled by the very tricks you claim we have been fooled by. Only you do not allow yourself to see it because it would mean you would have to admit that you have been lead astray while you thought you were doing the right thing. This is unacceptable to you.

    Sadly, you have even bought into the belief that what Jesus Himself taught is now superceded by man's interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. So you believe what man's "proof" of being Christian is. It is you who have rearranged what a Christian is. You have even convinced yourself you have the right to judge us because you think we need to be saved from the very Jesus Christ whom you worship.

    Someday you will weep with regret that you tried to destroy the faith of others. But in that day, we will weep with you that you finally see the Truth free of mans precepts.

    SavedbyTruth

  24. #49
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    Libby says--
    But, who gets to define "doctrine"? LDS believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and we define him and his doctrine through that Holy Book, and through living Prophets. Joseph Smith never said the church he established was not Christian...just the opposite. It is restored Christianity. Restored...which, from an LDS perspective means that Christian doctrine has been protected...by God, Himself.

    Mormons often define a Christian as: a follower of Christ. Mormons define a Christian religion as: a religion that follows Christ and is Christ centred. Definition Function: noun Etymology: Latin christi****, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos Date: 1526 1 a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1): disciple 2



    Humm let me say this on this topic of Mormons --

    That which was first called “Christianity’ Acts 26:28 was originally called “The Way”. Yet Mormonism has a different WAY.


    Ac 24:14
    Quote:
    But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
    This is because it consisted of a unique WAY to get to heaven that was different from other Religions.

    The Foundational setting for the WAY was that there is ONE God-- and that all the commands of God hinged on that foundational idea.

    This first commandment is spelled out in the scriptures the first example is the one that Mormons use-- it is the one cited on the LDS.org site.

    Quote:
    Matthew 22: 33 And when the mul***ude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    This is also taught in Mark in its fullness-- Note the Foundational idea of ONE GOD:
    Quote:
    12: 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

    Mormons include the Love God and Love Neighbor part—but have neglected the One God part. This means that they are not following the most fundamental and foundational teaching of Christ. As it is written
    In Matt 22 of this most fundamental commandment-
    Quote:
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    OK back to “THE WAY”

    Christianity had a unique “WAY” to Heaven. It was all about relying on What Jesus did on the cross to rid man of SIN and that alone. And Not on what men do for themselves to cross the veil to gain entry to heaven. This all had to do with the idea that there was only ONE BARRIER between God and Man. That was SIN.

    The Cross then was the Key to “the WAY”.



    1 Cor 1:
    Quote:
    18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent
    .

    Hebrews 10: 18 The Barrier of SIN is removed
    Quote:
    Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin
    Then Hebrews 10: 19 with the removal of Sin Humanity has access to heaven-
    Quote:
    Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
    OK then Hebews 10:20 This manner of entering heaven is the Way-
    Quote:
    By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
    Notice how Jesus’ blood sacrifice is connected with the “WAY” back in to God’s presence or Heaven. (Heaven was modeled in the Hebrew Temple by the Holy Place or ‘holiest’--- to enter the holiest is a symbol of entering the heavenly realms of God’s presence.) This is Why Christianity was first called “THE WAY”


    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me,
    This “WAY” was given in a message called the Good News or the Gospel—

    1 Cor 15:
    Quote:
    1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
    The Gospel and WAY of Mormonism is a different Way than that which came to be termed “Christianity”.

    Quote:
    Our religion is nothing more nor less than the true order of heaven—the system of laws by which the gods and the angels are governed. The Gospel of the Son of God that has been revealed is a plan or system of laws and ordinances, by strict obedience to which the people who inhabit this earth are ***ured that they may return again into the presence of the Father and the Son.
    LDS Sunday School Manual; The Gospel Defined: Lesson 235554, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young

    Quote:
    …one of the untrue doctrines found in modern Christendom is the concept that man can gain salvation by grace alone …
    (Mormon Doctrine, 671)


    OK --------in my view this outlines why Mormons do not appear to be what came to be called "Christians". They have a different WAY then "THE WAY" which came to be called "Christianity"--

    ------------------------------------------
    Next notice the iden***y of the One God that Paul worships--

    Ac 24:14
    Quote:
    But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
    Paul worships the God of his Fathers-- the God of the Old Testament who is Jehovah. The God of the Way is Jehovah NOT some higher God above Jehovah named 'Elohim'.
    Last edited by HickPreacher; 04-11-2009 at 11:29 PM.

  25. #50
    SavedbyTruth
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickPreacher View Post
    Libby says--



    Mormons often define a Christian as: a follower of Christ. Mormons define a Christian religion as: a religion that follows Christ and is Christ centred. Definition Function: noun Etymology: Latin christi****, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos Date: 1526 1 a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1): disciple 2



    Humm let me say this on this topic of Mormons --

    That which was first called “Christianity’ Acts 26:28 was originally called “The Way”. Yet Mormonism has a different WAY.


    Ac 24:14


    This is because it consisted of a unique WAY to get to heaven that was different from other Religions.

    The Foundational setting for the WAY was that there is ONE God-- and that all the commands of God hinged on that foundational idea.

    This first commandment is spelled out in the scriptures the first example is the one that Mormons use-- it is the one cited on the LDS.org site.




    This is also taught in Mark in its fullness-- Note the Foundational idea of ONE GOD:
    Quote:



    Mormons include the Love God and Love Neighbor part—but have neglected the One God part. This means that they are not following the most fundamental and foundational teaching of Christ. As it is written
    In Matt 22 of this most fundamental commandment-
    Quote:


    OK back to “THE WAY”

    Christianity had a unique “WAY” to Heaven. It was all about relying on What Jesus did on the cross to rid man of SIN and that alone. And Not on what men do for themselves to cross the veil to gain entry to heaven. This all had to do with the idea that there was only ONE BARRIER between God and Man. That was SIN.

    The Cross then was the Key to “the WAY”.



    1 Cor 1:
    .

    Hebrews 10: 18 The Barrier of SIN is removed
    Quote:

    Then Hebrews 10: 19 with the removal of Sin Humanity has access to heaven-
    Quote:


    OK then Hebews 10:20 This manner of entering heaven is the Way-
    Quote:


    Notice how Jesus’ blood sacrifice is connected with the “WAY” back in to God’s presence or Heaven. (Heaven was modeled in the Hebrew Temple by the Holy Place or ‘holiest’--- to enter the holiest is a symbol of entering the heavenly realms of God’s presence.) This is Why Christianity was first called “THE WAY”




    This “WAY” was given in a message called the Good News or the Gospel—

    1 Cor 15:
    Quote:


    The Gospel and WAY of Mormonism is a different Way than that which came to be termed “Christianity”.

    Quote:


    LDS Sunday School Manual; The Gospel Defined: Lesson 235554, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young

    Quote:

    (Mormon Doctrine, 671)


    OK --------in my view this outlines why Mormons do not appear to be what came to be called "Christians". They have a different WAY then "THE WAY" which came to be called "Christianity"--

    ------------------------------------------
    Next notice the iden***y of the One God that Paul worships--

    Ac 24:14


    Paul worships the God of his Fathers-- the God of the Old Testament who is Jehovah. The God of the Way is Jehovah NOT some higher God above Jehovah named 'Elohim'.
    Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

    Jesus is the way to Heaven.

    There are many divisions and levels in Heaven and we can help determine where we end up in Heaven.

    SbT

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