Grace Controversy!

[alanmolstad]

so in other words, its talking about a plan God had for me...this plan was set in stone and could not be changed from before creation happend...

the plan took into account my own ability to answer and respond to God.

So there is a union between God's sovereignty and man's ability to respond

[Saxon]

That is fatalism not faith.

[Saxon]

Your first sentence has cancelled the second. If it is "set in stone" you have no choice your ability to respond is not there.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Your first sentence has cancelled the second. If it is "set in stone" you have no choice your ability to respond is not there.

actually within the plan of god for me, there is a perfect union of his sovereignty and my free will....his rule of the universe took into account my ability to respond to him...

[Saxon]

actually within the plan of god for me, there is a perfect union of his sovereignty and my free will....his rule of the universe took into account my ability to respond to him...

Within the sovereignty of God, man has total free will. God made man a free moral agent. All are free to be save in accordance with God’s plan and all are free to remain in their sins.

[alanmolstad]

men are trapped in time, god is not,

Before the creation of the universe, god already saw me,,,(as clearly as he can see me now , and see me at my death, ) ......he already saw me with him in eternal glory after the resurrection.


And this is not just by my decision or by accident....for God had already chosen me personalty to be saved.

Nothing was left to chance,

Nothing was left in doubt...

Nothing was left for me to do....

Nothing was left up to me to decide.





God was not just reacting to what God saw happen in the ending.....NO!.....God alone was the soul cause and lone author of my salvation!!!!!!

[alanmolstad]

Look at the text you quoted -

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.







It comes down to the sovereignty of God....
This is to me, the fact that God decided my fate.
Not me.


God picked me to be saved....I did not decide this.

I did not choose to be a friend of God, he decided to be my friend.



God picked me by name, before the universe was made.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Your first sentence has cancelled the second. If it is "set in stone" you have no choice your ability to respond is not there.

You know.....

In the video I posted by the Walter Martin, he does address this very same type of issue you raise here...

I will post it again,,

Try listening to the point starting at around 3:00 point of the recording