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Thread: Is your Salvation Arbitrary or Works-Based?

  1. #51
    BrianH
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    Turning FROM sin is repentance.
    Turning TO God is belief.

    It makes no sense to repent without turning to God and you cannot turn to God without repenting.

    The scripture says "repent AND believe".

    -BH

    .

  2. #52
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Interesting point---the idea that God works to save ALL men, therefore, if men are not saved, it is not because of the lack of God's work,but the lack of ours.
    Too bad the idea that "God works to save ALL men" is not Biblical, but is based on an erroneous understanding of one given text, ignorant of what a synedoche is.

  3. #53
    John T
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    Too bad the idea that "God works to save ALL men" is not Biblical, but is based on an erroneous understanding of one given text, ignorant of what a synedoche is.
    Do you mean "synecdoche"?

  4. #54
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Do you mean "synecdoche"?
    Sure did. Pardon the typo.

  5. #55
    John T
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    Default Time to act, perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    Sure did. Pardon the typo.
    I consider having a good vocabulary as a good thing; obviously you do as well. I just wanted to be sure that you did not slip in a word that I did not know.

    Hey have you noticed that no Mormon poster has responded in one week on this thread?

    Please beware of a new mopologist tactic, for they tried it twice, once was successful. Someone will start a thread about a Christian, and all the rest of them will gang up on the subject, post nasty stuff in order to push the Christian's ****ons, and then have the Christian banned because he got angry, and fought back. They started threads about Paul, and on me. One thread Richard started, and the other SbT started. I suspect that both posters are Richard, back to doing his old, bad habits that got him banned forever at Concerned Christians. and suspended several times at CARM.

    The truly nasty thing about the threads on people is that it demonstrates the paucity of evidence on the part of the Mormons, and it has ZERO to do with Mormonism.

    Whenever that happens, I urge Christians to do two things:
    1) Complain to Jull, the Administrator. They barrage her over the things that we do to hurt their feelings.

    2) Call the Mopologists out on their continuious and dispicable slandering. I did it in bold red, three point Ariel.

    As I see it, for some unknown reason, the Mormons are free to post lies and be hateful. However let a PhD, like Paul get riled up, and state all sorts of things about MORMONISM in general, and not any particular PERSON, he gets in trouble, and banned. (Perhaps I will also get banned for merely expressing my opinion.)

    Then there is always the third option: dusting off our collective sandals at once. But hey, I am not a rabble rouser!

  6. #56
    Father_JD
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    Thanks, John T.

    In a nutshell:

    Many of the LDS on this board fight dirty and when called upon it, complain they're being "persecuted".

    Go figure.

  7. #57
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    Salvation is either arbitrary or based on human works. Since God has done his part and offers salvation to all, those are the only two perspectives that can possibly be held. Any action that is required on the part of humanity at all renders your salvation works-based. This means if you believe someone has to accept Christ, believe the right things, not deny salvation, have a willing heart, or anything else, then that actions qualifies the person for salvation, making it works-based.

    They asked Jesus a question like this too.

    Lets readJohn 6:28- "Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"


    So here is the same question we are dealing with on this topic, basically, "What are the works that we must do for salvation?"

    Now lets look at the answer Jesus gave.
    John 6:29 - "Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent."




    So that is the answer.
    The answer is that there is only one 'work" that is required by all people for salvation....that work is to have faith in Jesus.

  8. #58
    True Believer
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    In order for us to have faith in Jesus we must do good works. James talks about it in James chapter 2.
    James 2:17(KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Also in James 2:26(KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  9. #59
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Believer View Post
    In order for us to have faith in Jesus we must do good works. James talks about it in James chapter 2.
    James 2:17(KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Also in James 2:26(KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    As the laziest person on the face of the Earth, how much work must I do? Is it like one, two or three good works, or more?
    Give me the mininum please?

  10. #60
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Believer View Post
    In order for us to have faith in Jesus we must do good works.
    The works that i have in my life testify to the realness of my salvation.....the works are to be seen as a means to show what is in my heart.

    But the works themselves do not add squat to my actual salvation...
    Works do not save me,nor keep me saved.....

    Works show that I am saved.....



    What is this like?

    it's like......the "sound" of my car tells you that the motor is running.
    The motor running is the important part.

    The running motor is the thing that makes the car go, not the sound.

    The sound is not the important thing, rather it tells you the current state of the important thing (the motor).....

    In other words, the lack of sound tells you that the motor is not running...
    Just as a lack of works tells you that the important part "faith in Jesus" is dead.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 04-01-2013 at 11:10 AM.

  11. #61
    True Believer
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    In order to have faith in Jesus we must do good works. James says so in James chapter 2.

    James 2:17 (KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    James 2:26 (KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  12. #62
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Believer View Post
    In order to have faith in Jesus we must do good works. James says so in James chapter 2.

    James 2:17 (KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    James 2:26 (KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    I didn't know they still made vinyl records any longer?

  13. #63
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The works that i have in my life testify to the realness of my salvation.....the works are to be seen as a means to show what is in my heart.

    But the works themselves do not add squat to my actual salvation...
    Works do not save me,nor keep me saved.....

    Works show that I am saved.....
    That is the message we see in James 2

    James 2:18
    Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


    The Bible seems to agree with you Alan.. Not with the LDS.. IHS jim

  14. #64
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I didn't know they still made vinyl records any longer?
    The whole world has not yet switched over.....

  15. #65
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post

    The Bible seems to agree with you Alan.. Not with the LDS.. IHS jim
    Thanks....

    now may I suggest you glance at - http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...257#post142257

    and see there what we may as the conversation goes on

  16. #66
    True Believer
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    There is no minimum.

  17. #67
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    As the laziest person on the face of the Earth, how much work must I do? Is it like one, two or three good works, or more?
    Give me the mininum please?
    ,,,just the one work.......only the one....

    to believe.....just have faith...and you have worked the one work asked

  18. #68
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ,,,just the one work.......only the one....

    to believe.....just have faith...and you have worked the one work asked
    wow, i am exhausted!

  19. #69
    True Believer
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    So alanmolstad you believe after you do that one work all the other works come because you believe?

  20. #70
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Believer View Post
    So alanmolstad you believe after you do that one work all the other works come because you believe?
    I believe what the words of Jesus teach us...

    They asked jesus what 'works' a person should do?....and Jesus answered and said that "thee work of God" was to believe in the Son.

    "Thee work"....the lone work,,,,the only so-called "work" is to have faith in Christ.

    For man is saved by Grace THOUGH faith...


    Now as to your question-
    The works that I do now are the result of my faith, and are used by God as a testimony of my changed heart.
    The works are to be seen....the works that i do are the effect of my faith.

    You cant see my heart....there is no way to know if Im saved or lost just by reading my name or seeing a photo of me.
    But an accounting of my works do show you that the claim i make to be "saved" is supported by the evidence....

  21. #71
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Believer View Post
    So alanmolstad you believe after you do that one work all the other works come because you believe?
    Which came first the Easter egg or the Easter bunny?
    TB you are close, very close, any and all works come from the heart, out of love, but how do we measure love?
    The fact is we can't, and God doesn't, why? Because of the Cross, and we can't measure the Grace His Son paid with His Blood.

  22. #72
    alanmolstad
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    so on a forum such as this how do works show us the person's heart?

    Well if i were to claim to be a christian, yet you saw me always being banned for being rude to guests, always being a potty mouth...always being nasty and rude, then you will look at such "works' and think to yourself...

    "His Christian faith is dead and buried underneath layers of bad behavior"



    But if Im always nice to talk to, never am a potty mouth, am always watching for troublemakers, and try to set a good example, then that 'work' is also telling you about the support I have in my life for being truly a "Christ-like" person.....

  23. #73
    True Believer
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    so you believe good works show you are a christain?

  24. #74
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Believer View Post
    so you believe good works show you are a christain?
    isn't that what James teaches? James 2:18.. IHS jim

  25. #75
    True Believer
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    isn't that what James teaches? James 2:18.. IHS jim
    What about people who are not christians but still do good works?

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