Originally Posted by
BigJulie
So, if I have you right....those who believe in God will act outwardly because of an inward conversion. I agree with this.
The part that SEEMS to be missing is that while believers will do good works because it is God working through them to glorify himself; doing good deeds is NOT a manifestation of salvation.
That is because even Charles Manson can fake good deeds while in prison, and say "Look at what I did! See, I am a Christian." Furthermore, Scripture is abundantly clear that salvation is NOT of efforts or works, for that would cause pride, which is an anathema to God.
Therefore our works do not save us (1), but our faith does(2) and our faith is seen by our works.
Phrase 1= Excellent; Phrase 2 = Excellent, Phrase 3= not true.
On other boards, I saw Mormons who wished to quantify faith by making this or that a standard, essentially saying "I have greater faith than her because I do this or that." Remember what Jesus said about the one having faith the size of a mustard seed. It is not the size of your faith that counts, rather, it is the size of the God in whom you entrust your faith that counts. There is an immense difference between the size of the Mormon god, and the God of Christianity.
So the question is this: "Do you place your faith in a god who does not exist, who "once was man, but is now exalted" or the "Only one God, completely holy holy, righteous and just, who shows unmerited grace (favor) to those who trust Him?"
(1)Therefore, we can know our faith by what we do. (2) If one claims to have faith and then denies it in action, they are a liar.
(1) WORKS ARE NOT A THERMOMETER INDICATING ONE'S FAITH.
(2) You have to be clearer what you mean by the phrase "denies it in action". If you mean that any person who sins in some manner is a denier of one's faith, that is not true. Scripture tells us that we all are sinners, after conversion, we still sin, and our sinning will not cease until we are dead, or when Jesus returns. That is why John wrote in 1 John 19ff 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Chapter 21 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation [Defense Attorney) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Another good Scripture to remember is this, from Ephesians 3:20-21Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen
Bob Hoekstra says this about the above p***age: It begins with the
most critical issue for living the Christian life, the
ability of
God:
"Now to Him who is able." Natural religious thinking would set forth the ability of man as the most vital matter in developing a godly life. Such an approach would leave us striving vainly under the law, attempting to live up to God's perfect standards by our own inadequate resources. Praise be to God, there is a heavenly, effective option: relying upon God's ability.
Think of the immeasurable ability of the Lord.
"Ah, Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm. There is nothing too hard for You" (
Jeremiah 32:17). He created the entire universe. Certainly, by His power He is able to strengthen us.
"Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?" (
Jeremiah 32:27). Our Lord rules over all of humanity. Surely, He is able to manage our lives. Actually, our God is
"able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think." Everything we could ask concerning His will, He is able to do far beyond that. Whatever we might contemplate but hesitate to ask, He is able to surp*** that.
That is why salvation is all by grace, and ZERO by works. If it were by works, we would trust unreliable sinners, ourselves to be our own redeemer. Gloriously, however, it is all of, by and through God that salvation comes.
Therefore it is neither the amount of either your faith, nor of your works that count. Instead, it is the size of the God in whom you rest your faith that counts.
In other words, the person who claims they believe but then refuses baptism is a liar.
That is a hypothetical that is extremely dubious possibilities. That is because the believer willingly wants to enter into baptism as an act of obedience, (not conversion). But there are Christianity-hostile places whereby the act of baptism is tantamount to taking a contract out on your life, and the death of a believer, due to a public baptism has life and death ramifications for the immediate family including the spouse and children.
I do not find any warrant in Scripture for such an ***umption.