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Thread: How do you talk to these people?

  1. #1
    Brother Shuler
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    Default How do you talk to these people?

    Where I live there aren't any false religions except for Scientology. I almost never see or hear from any of them who aren't Scientologists. They're at the the festivals, at the Wal-Marts, they mail stuff to people all over here, you here about them on the news, you find there books at garaged sales all the time, there must be some HQ around here somewhere. What exactly is the best way to start a conversation with them and what are the best questions to ask them? I know a bit about the theology from the latest Kingdom of the Cults and a few sermons on the Info net. I know most all worldviews have a few questions that make the adherents question the whole system. What are the Scientology questions?

  2. #2
    Kogseeker
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    I don't know much about scientology, but what part of KS are you from? Im from KS also, thats why I ask. I live in Wichita

  3. #3
    Brother Shuler
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    I'm in Bonner Springs.

  4. #4
    Kogseeker
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    Looks like we have a few miles in between us but we're still neighbors, nevertheless. Welcome

  5. #5
    Bob Carabbio
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    Get to know 'em. build a bridge for some discussion. If you go after 'em like a "head hunter" to prove to them that you're right, and have all truth, and they're all Bozo head freaks - I doubt that you'll get very far. You'd only be doing what they expected you to do all along.

    Nah - let 'em have a serious personal problem that their stupid little positive confession philosophy/mind game can't handle and maybe they'll ask you a REAL question.

    Maybe YOU'LL have a SERIOUS personal problem and they can watch you meet it head on in faith and joy (if they know you), and they'll wonder how you DID that - (because they'll know they couldn't).

    If what you HAVE is "real" - then it'll show.

    You witness ISN'T what you say - it's what you ARE.

    Oh - and I'll bet a bag of White Castles that there's a LOT more "false religions" than Scientology in your area. Every church you p*** has some percentage of folks in it that aren't any more "Christian" in reality than the man in the moon.
    Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 10-11-2008 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #6
    Brother Shuler
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    I know there are other religions around here. I had a JW neighbor. The are the only false religion that's seems to be everywhere around here. Not to many people are that interested but they are sure trying around here. They won't come into the town I'm in, no one will do that. There's a Church on every block. Churches next to Churches. Signs of Churches to be build. Churches in non-church buildings. We have more churches than people in this town. They're around but not in town.

  7. #7
    sayso
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    For the most part I agree with Bob. What you live says more to others about what you believe and who you are, then what you tell them.

    However, God does at times use people to confront those who are in error. And if you are burdened to share the Gospel with those who don't know Jesus then the key to being an effective witness to anyone is first to know Jesus yourself. Then be listening for His voice, and obey Him regardless of what it costs you.

    You don't need to spend time studying the false religions (unless God instructs you to) and what they believe if you're spending time with God, reading His word and meditating on it in prayer. Because as you hide His word in your heart, it will be there and the Holy Spirit will remind you of it when someone says something that is contrary to it. And you will just naturally know how to respond because the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. Unless God directs you to specifically talk to someone about it, then wait and let God make the appointments in His timing. If you're praying for them and seeking God for their salvation, God will draw them to Jesus and all you'll have to do is point the way to Him.

    Our battle is not with the person though and just as a person in the military must prepare and make sure they are ready to fight, so do we need to put on the armor of God.


    Ephesians 6

    10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.

    11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

    12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

    14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,

    15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;

    16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of )the evil one.

    17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

    18 With all prayer and pe***ion pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and pe***ion for all the saints,

  8. #8
    Jean Chauvin
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    Hello,

    There's really not a lot of Christian witnessing or understanding regarding Scientology.

    I am currently working on a booklet regarding this very issue. It's a little more complex then most "cults," since it is in the area of philosophy.

    Feel free to email me if you are still kickin, and still have questions. If Scientology has gotten a hold of you and you are now stuck in their mud pit of hell, well, I guess I'm a little late.

    Respectfully,

    Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
    ins***utio@gmail.com

  9. #9
    Jean Chauvin
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    Default Scientology - Existential

    Scientology is essential a cult of philosohpy. In Walter Martin's Kingdom of Cults books he gives it very little attention.

    This is because it was outside his expertise.

    Scientology is Existential in virtually everything. This is the very core of what drives them. They have gone beyond Kirkengaard to a complex mind control cult of philosophy.

    Respectfully,

    Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

  10. #10
    alanmolstad
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    In many ways, the Mormons and the Scientology stuff have a lot in common, in that both are off-shoots of a guy dreaming something up .
    sci-fI .....stuff told by a great story teller....

  11. #11
    e v e
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Shuler View Post
    Where I live there aren't any false religions except for Scientology. I almost never see or hear from any of them who aren't Scientologists. They're at the the festivals, at the Wal-Marts, they mail stuff to people all over here, you here about them on the news, you find there books at garaged sales all the time, there must be some HQ around here somewhere. What exactly is the best way to start a conversation with them and what are the best questions to ask them? I know a bit about the theology from the latest Kingdom of the Cults and a few sermons on the Info net. I know most all worldviews have a few questions that make the adherents question the whole system. What are the Scientology questions?
    I was in Scientology decades ago. It's a sad cult.

  12. #12
    e v e
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Chauvin View Post
    Scientology is essential a cult of philosohpy. In Walter Martin's Kingdom of Cults books he gives it very little attention.

    This is because it was outside his expertise.

    Scientology is Existential in virtually everything. This is the very core of what drives them. They have gone beyond Kirkengaard to a complex mind control cult of philosophy.

    Respectfully,

    Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
    I don't see any comparison of Scn and kierkegaard other than they are both centered on the I of consciousness and have zero concept of His Souls.

  13. #13
    e v e
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Chauvin View Post
    Hello,

    There's really not a lot of Christian witnessing or understanding regarding Scientology.

    I am currently working on a booklet regarding this very issue. It's a little more complex then most "cults," since it is in the area of philosophy.

    Feel free to email me if you are still kickin, and still have questions. If Scientology has gotten a hold of you and you are now stuck in their mud pit of hell, well, I guess I'm a little late.

    Respectfully,

    Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
    ins***utio@gmail.com
    I reached the highest levels in it and I understand it deeply. But I've no interest in saving anyone from it. I know lots of former Scn. And so few are open to Christianity. If anything, some don't talk to me much precisely because I'm christian.

  14. #14
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by e v e View Post
    I reached the highest levels in it and I understand it deeply. But I've no interest in saving anyone from it.
    Some interesting points you touched on, I’ve only known maybe a handful.

    But really, how can a Christian say such a thing? I’m hoping you would reconsider if God were to place you in the path of a Scientologists for a rather obvious reason?

    Btw, welcome to the WM nest.

    Mike.

  15. #15
    e v e
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Some interesting points you touched on, I’ve only known maybe a handful.

    But really, how can a Christian say such a thing? I’m hoping you would reconsider if God were to place you in the path of a Scientologists for a rather obvious reason?

    Btw, welcome to the WM nest.

    Mike.
    Mike

    I was involved with that long ago. But, I still know many, many ex-scientologists. What I have done for years is try to be kind, to talk to them, to help them leave that delusion gently.

    The problem is that scientology includes a technology to ENHANCE and BOLSTER the fallen mind. I find that those who left are still so tied to the mindset and its impossible to convince them of any point. I'm not even talking about getting to a point of offering the Christian alternative....many of them know I'm Christian and simply avoid talking to me on that topic. I'm talking about even the simple effort to take up one 'belief' of Scientology and show someone how messed up it is.

    I've got 250+ FB ex-scn friends. For two years I've tried to see if I can find even one soul of his. The exes run like this: have turned new age and love the concept of I am a god and I can visualize spiritual realities and all that nonsense including believing in Osiris etc; or, I am an ex but I still like the technology and think the ideas are fine and please never mention myths to me like scripture or I'll never talk to you again; or, make fun of me for believing what I believe and point out to me how not-logical christianity is and how apathetic i am. And a bunch of other reactions.

    The 3-4 Christians among them are very mixed, very hard-headed and are 'inaccessible' on the topic. One of them is a gnostic type "christian," another is a Catholic, the other ones are christian combined with new age here and there.

    For me, to help someone they have to be willing and open to that conversation, I'm not a bulldozer. I don't try anymore because all my 'friends' of that type know what I think, have heard me before on the topic, and know where I am if they want to understand. I went through phases of writing long articles explaining what was wrong with Scientology also...and that was not met well at all.

    Basically, He saves souls, not me. I'm there is anyone wants my help. But I don't have that as a ministry. That was 30 years ago and I'm over it. At most now I talk to any of those who want to and hold my nose while they spout the new age blather and tell them that is all off, and not what God wants.

    Believe me, its not a secret how I feel about Scientology. And I know some of the top exes who left, the more well-known ones. They like me but don't want to be closer to me because I'm Christian.

    Oh well.

  16. #16
    e v e
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Some interesting points you touched on, Iíve only known maybe a handful.

    But really, how can a Christian say such a thing? Iím hoping you would reconsider if God were to place you in the path of a Scientologists for a rather obvious reason?

    Btw, welcome to the WM nest.

    Mike.
    Mike

    I was involved with that long ago. But, I still know many, many ex-scientologists. What I have done for years is try to be kind, to talk to them, to help them leave that delusion gently.

    The problem is that scientology includes a technology to ENHANCE and BOLSTER the fallen mind. I find that those who left are still so tied to the mindset that it's impossible to tell them otherwise, ever. I'm not even talking about getting to a point of offering His context to them....many of them know I'm Christian and simply avoid talking to me on that topic. I'm talking about even the simple effort to take up one 'belief' of Scientology and show someone how messed up it is.

    I've got 250+ FB ex-scn friends. For two years I've tried to see if I can find even one soul of His. If one is here, boy is it blocked. The exes run like this: have turned new age and love the concept of I am a god and I can visualize spiritual realities and all that nonsense including believing in Osiris etc; or, I am an ex but I still like the technology and think the ideas are fine and please never mention myths to me like scripture or I'll never talk to you again; or, make fun of me for believing what I believe and point out to me how not-logical christianity is and how apathetic i am; I'm scientific now and atheist and I've recovered from Scientology but also means they are not just sort of atheist now but rabidly so. And a bunch of other reactions.

    The 3-4 Christians among them are very mixed, very hard-headed and are 'inaccessible' on the topic. One of them is a gnostic type "christian," another is a Catholic, the other ones are christian combined with new age here and there.

    For me, to help someone they have to be willing and open to that conversation, I'm not a bulldozer. I don't try anymore because all my 'friends' of that type know what I think, have heard me before on the topic, and know where I am if they want to understand. I went through phases of writing long articles explaining what was wrong with Scientology also...and that was not met well at all.

    Basically, He saves souls, not me. I'm there is anyone wants my help. But I don't have that as a ministry. That was 30 years ago and I'm over it. At most now I talk to any of those who want to and hold my nose while they spout the new age blather and tell them that is all off, and not what God wants.

    Believe me, its not a secret how I feel about Scientology. And I know some of the top exes who left, the more well-known ones. Exes like me well enough as long as we stay off the Christian topic.

    Oh well.
    Last edited by e v e; 06-02-2016 at 09:35 AM.

  17. #17
    e v e
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    When I say I have FB friends, I don't mean that they are only just acquaintances. I've actually talked to many of them, personally, and discussed things like belief, over the years. One on one, in a kind way, relating to people.

    Almost 250 of them. I used to have 700 but unfriended many since I had no idea who they were except that they were exes, keeping only those who I had at least spoken to a few times and responded to their posts.

    And I have posted Washer videos and pretty Christian songs on my own status. And the result of that is that I'm basically treated like, poor thing, she's deluded.

    You see, Scientology believes in a thing called implants...and they are taught that Christianity is a sci-fi implant into the 'thetan' or an en***y that needs removing. What is the thetan? The thetan is a fake soul, made of impersonal energy, that undergoes 'past lives' etc. It is none other than the fallen self, the I, which is to be made into a super being.

    Scientology is heavily tied into Crowley, Freud's conception of the 'mind, and past life regression...so that when someone leaves its easy for that person to go the Satanic route (gnosticism, Crowley), or the psychology route (freud), or the past life route (new age gods and methods and continuation of past lives, astrology etc.)

  18. #18
    e v e
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    When I say I have FB friends, I don't mean that they are only just acquaintances. I've actually talked to many of them, personally, and discussed things like belief, over the years. One on one, in a kind way, relating to people.

    Almost 250 of them. I used to have 700 but unfriended many since I had no idea who they were except that they were exes, keeping only those who I had at least spoken to a few times and responded to their posts.

    And I have posted Washer videos and pretty Christian songs on my own status. And the result of that is that I'm basically treated like, poor thing, she's deluded.

    You see, Scientology believes in a thing called implants...and they are taught that Christianity is a sci-fi implant into the 'thetan' or an en***y that needs removing. What is the thetan? The thetan is a fake soul, made of impersonal energy, that undergoes 'past lives' etc. It is none other than the fallen self, the I, which they believe can be made into a super being.

    Scientology is heavily tied into Crowley, Freud's conception of the 'mind, and past life regression...so that when someone leaves its easy for that person to go the Satanic route (gnosticism, Crowley), or the psychology route (freud), or the past life route (new age gods and methods and continuation of past lives, plus other things like astrology etc.)

  19. #19
    e v e
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    Those inside of Scientology are almost impossible to reach, because they are kept isolated. Those who left are almost impossible to reach for all the reasons I gave. I'd written a longer explanation of why those inside are almost unreachable, how that works....but it got wiped and the page refreshed. Sigh. Feel free to ask me anything though and I can try to answer it. It's literally a huge topic and more complicated than would seem. And its no mystery why there's almost no traffic here on the forum for it. Exes, who have family still in, are generally not interested in help from a Christian, so they'd never come here. Usually they go to http://www.forum.exscn.net/.

    I used to post there quite a bit but got tired of the hatred and back-biting environment. The exes are divided among the atheist scientific types (very religiously that way) and those friendlier to the scientology free zone (comparable to a scientology 'reformation' movement), and then everyone else in between. The site is heavily infiltrated by Church of Scientology operatives who are quite brutal and nasty.

  20. #20
    e v e
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    A big problem of scientology is that ALL members learn how to do the techniques. The techniques appear benign but are basically sorcery. Well..remember what scripture says about that topic? Sorcerers are reprobate.

    So there you have it concerning scientologists...they aren't merely followers of a belief...but actively practice a form of sorcery. Their delusion is a truly deep ugly festering abomination.

    It's pointless to talk to the reprobate. Even He rejects them and lets them be even more reprobate. So that explains why I am not trying to help them anymore. I saw them as reprobate and now I leave them alone to their delusion. I'm kind. If asked I would tell them what's true. But I don't actively try to do more.

    I think the ones to help who are affected by scientology are those who seek it out here and on other forums....one on one.

    Even in the last 3 months I've spent dozens of hours, talking to specific persons explaining about scientology and why it's satanic. That went absolutely no place.

  21. #21
    e v e
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    The OP asked first: how to talk to these people?

    I answered, above, it's very hard if not impossible to talk to them. See my ANSWER: post #19.

    OP also asked, second: what are the scientology questions?

    I tried to answer that, misunderstood what the question was and thought you meant questions about their cosmology...which first of all you'd need to sort of even understand yourself to ask them questions about....but since it is a huge topic [their cosmology], ANSWER: I doubt that avenue would be fruitful....I did give a small summary of some of their views (see above posts) and tried to show how those might impact why scientologists are very hard if not impossible to reach.

    What OP actually asked that I did not answer: what are the best questions to ask them so that they will question their beliefs?

    First of all, they do not view their 'beliefs' as beliefs, but as being cough, scientific. ANSWER: I suppose asking them about things they like to do in their spare time when not doing scientology, are they able to enjoy and spend time with their children, and how their non-scientology family members react to their 'religion' (asking in a kind way of course), etc. A scientologist asked these things will probably not answer you since the questions are verboten to them to think about...however, that is ok, since such a question definitely can still trigger or strike a chord in that person...for later when they are alone. Why those types of questions and not questions about their theology? Because scientologists are never allowed to do anything they like to do and are often forced to disconnect from their families and get to spend practically no time with their own children. Trust me that questions about their 'tech' will go no place fast.

    I'll not be posting much more unless there is interest but I doubt it would serve any purpose to post anything else at this point.
    Last edited by e v e; 06-02-2016 at 02:21 PM.

  22. #22
    e v e
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    To speak His Word True is always what His Souls do night and day and hope someone sweetly comes to Him....

    All I've expressed is how tough a nut Scientology is.....and my own frustrations.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
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    what happened to the other 3 threads?
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

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