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Thread: Does obedience to the commandments carry any eternal consequences?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The creator of the universe knows how to judge his own creation.
    So Ananias and Sapphira, and Uzzah, and Mormons, and everyone else who you think rejected Jesus before they died, could still end up in heaven.

    That is interesting. Thank you.
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  2. #102
    alanmolstad
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    If a person responds to the light God sends them. ..

    By talking to a Christian and being informed that Smith was a false prophet the Mormon has received light...thus if the Mormon responds correctly and believes this light then God will draw them closer to brighter light.
    And thus the Mormon is pulled out of the sin of mormonisom.

    However should the Mormon turn away from the light given them via the Christian them the Mormon dies in sin and is sent to eternal hell.

  3. #103
    alanmolstad
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    Oh and by the way, Smith was a false prophet.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    If a person responds to the light God sends them. ..
    By talking to a Christian and being informed that Smith was a false prophet the Mormon has received light...thus if the Mormon responds correctly and believes this light then God will draw them closer to brighter light.
    And thus the Mormon is pulled out of the sin of mormonisom
    Is it necessary that they be pulled out of their sins before they die?

    However should the Mormon turn away from the light given them via the Christian them the Mormon dies in sin and is sent to eternal hell.
    Did Ananias and Sapphira turn away from the light given them? Didn't they die in their sin? So, according to your soteriology, haven't they been in eternal hell for over 1970 years, and aren't they in eternal hell right now?
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Is it necessary that they be pulled out of their sins before they die?

    It is...

    We all are saved by grace through faith.
    If you have no faith...

    That is the reason we are sent into the world to teach the lost...

    It's because they are lost.

    Lost means you are doomed to eternal hell.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post


    Did Ananias and Sapphira turn away from the light given them? Didn't they die in their sin? So, according to your soteriology, haven't they been in eternal hell for over 1970 years, and aren't they in eternal hell right now?
    Walter Martin once said that they might be an example of God judging a Christian. ..where the body is lost yet the soul is saved through it.

    Or they were not Christian and died in their sins and thus burn in hell today.

  7. #107
    alanmolstad
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    As for it being 1970 years?

    I have no idea of how many years it's been so far. ..

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    It is...We all are saved by grace through faith.
    Is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

    Matthew 25:31-46--King James Version (KJV)
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Alan--could you explain to us why those who did not do God's works--were cast into "everlasting punishment"?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

    Matthew 25:31-46--King James Version (KJV)
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Alan--could you explain to us why those who did not do God's works--were cast into "everlasting punishment"?
    Faith is never without works....



    This is why it says we are saved to do good works.

    And that is in agreement with the Bible where it teaches the doctrine that all are saved by God's grace though faith and not by works.



    For while we are not saved by our works, we do find that works always come with faith....its just a natural part of the christian life

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The part where you don't say that to lie to or sin against the Holy Spirit is said by the Bible to be unpardonable.
    The Bible does talk about a sin against the Holy Spirit, but in the example we see that talks about that in the Bible it seems to address the people that admitted that Jesus could heal people, but claimed this healing power came from Satan.

    That is the clearest example of what is called the sin against the Holy Spirit.



    Im not sure where the act of telling a known "lie" is considered to sin against the Holy Spirit?



    Walter martin used to always tell people that Christians can NEVER be guilty of that sin.




    as for the story where the husband and his wife die and are said to lie to the Holy Spirit?....the answer we have from Walter Martin is that they may have been the types of Christians that will suffer in the body, (destruction of the body) yet their souls are not in danger.


    see 1 Corinthians 5:5 for where that is from.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Faith is never without works....
    IOW--when you state we are saved by grace through faith--that is a reference to a faith with works?

    This is why it says we are saved to do good works.
    So--are you claiming we obtain salvation through a faith without works--and then we do the works? I thought you testified faith is never without works?

    Was there a faith with works in obtaining salvation by grace through faith?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The Bible does talk about a sin against the Holy Spirit, but in the exampole we see that talks about that in the Bible it seems to address the people that admitted that Jesus could heal people, but claimed this healing power came from Satan.

    That is the clearest example of what is the sin against the Holy Spirit.

    Im not sure where the act of telling a known "lie" is considered to sin against the Holy Spirit?

    Walter martin used to always tell people that Christians can NEVER be guilty of that sin.
    But they can be guilty of these sins?

    Galatians 5:19-21--King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    IOW--when you state we are saved by grace through faith--that is a reference to a faith with works?


    I dont know how else to write this????


    Once again, we are saved by Grace ALONE though faith ALONE!.......no works!




    Zero works are needed to be added.....zip, zero,,,squat!





    So to sum it all up?
    We are saved by grace though faith and not by works, and yet faith is never without works.




    any questions?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    But they can be guilty of these sins?

    Galatians 5:19-21--King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    The point of that list is that its aimed at everyone....all people.....all of us humans.
    The list is aimed at showing us that regardless of the sins in your life, the blood of the cross can clean you of the stain of sin.



    This is to help people that might feel great shame at the very darkest sins in their life that they dont have to run away and try to hide their past from God,,,for the message of hope we bring to the lost world is that of a cross, where a man took the full punishment for your sins in his own body.
    And that if you turn to him and believe you are given the full credit of his sinless life as your own.



    Thats why in judgement when we go before the Lord, he will look at us and only see the sinless life of christ credited to us, and declares us righteous in his sight!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The point of that list is that its aimed at everyone....all people.....all of us humans.
    The list is aimed at showing us that regardless of the sins in your life, the blood of the cross can clean you of the stain of sin.



    This is to help people that might feel great shame at the very darkest sins in their life that they dont have to run away and try to hide their past from God,,,for the message of hope we bring to the lost world is that of a cross, where a man took the full punishment for your sins in his own body.
    And that if you turn to him and believe you are given the full credit of his sinless life as your own.



    Thats why in judgement when we go before the Lord, he will look at us and only see the sinless life of christ credited to us, and declares us righteous in his sight!
    I like this answer!


    One of my better efforts!,,,

  16. #116
    alanmolstad
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    for more information - see 1 Corinthians 6:11

    "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform ****sexual acts, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God
    ."




    The list is actually aimed at all of us.
    The list could be page after page I would guess in length and even that would not give a full accounting of the flaws seen in men's hearts.

    and yet, the answer to all this is the very same, for we are saved by Grace though faith and not by works.

    So to turn to the Lord and believe frees a person from his past sins, and you rise and walk in new life.

  17. #117
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post But they can be guilty of these sins?

    Galatians 5:19-21--King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The point of that list is that its aimed at everyone....all people.....all of us humans.
    The list is aimed at showing us that regardless of the sins in your life, the blood of the cross can clean you of the stain of sin.
    That is only for those who repent of those sins--and move away from them, by walking in the Light:

    1 John 1:7--King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    The Blood is conditional upon walking in the light--as He is in the light.

    The claim by the faith alone that God cleanseth us from all sins while we repeat those sins over and over--is a false claim.

    The Biblical text testifies only those who obey the gospel receive of God's grace unto life--as a personal reception:

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    Last edited by dberrie2000; 06-02-2017 at 04:52 AM.

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