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Thread: Does God respond to Man?

  1. #126
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I think this is a great question.....




    I need to think of a more ways to address this question....
    Think about it as you reread Eph 2:8-9.. re we not taught in that passage that salvation is 100% of God and has nothing to do with our actions? Does it not say clearly that we are saved by God's Grace through Faith that is NOT OF OURSELVES but is a gift of God and NOT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast? Does that not disprove the works based thought here presented by Fig? IHS jim

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I think this is a great question.....




    I need to think of a more ways to address this question....
    God is Sovereign. This is something Mormons do not understand. They also do not understand that man is fallen, dead in his spirit, and needs to be brought to life by God's grace. Mormonism is a dangerous cult, since it robs God of His Sovereignty, and tells men they will be equal to God. The initiative is God's, not man's. God calls, God elects, God foreknows. Once we recognize that God really is truly Sovereign, we come to realize how blessed we have been to hear His call. In short, God grants us eternal life because He has enabled us to repent, falling on our knees and calling out for mercy.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  3. #128
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    This is a question regarding the gift of Grace, and Faith.

    What proof can JD and others provide that prove that the gift of Grace and Faith is NOT a RESPONSE from God to Man for the choices Mankind makes, and actions he undertakes.

    Thanks.
    as we ...or I seek to answer this fine question, I have to always keep in mind that "God does not learn anything"

    God does not 'respond" to new things happening ....God does not 'react'

    God does not do things from His point of view "after" something happens.

  4. #129
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    after a bit of listening to others...and checking the text...and my own limited ability to reason....I have come to this answer...

    1st - Galatians 4:6......Romans 8:15.........Mark 14:36 all teach us about how to address and think of God.

    The term we are to use is "Abba"



    yes, an odd little word, that really is never used in real life.

    So I very much doubt that God wants me to call him a name I dont got a clue about and is meaningless to me unless I google it.


    so......lets google it -
    "Abbá – "Father," also used as the term of tender endearment by a beloved child – i.e. in an affectionate, dependent relationship with their father; "daddy," "papa."


    So its clear the idea that Jesus was talking about and the Disciples to for that matter, is a term that gets actross the word a child calls their dad.

    I dont know about you but I never called my dad, "father"
    I dont remember calling him "daddy"...but then I think back to my younger brother and siste, and they did call my dad, "Daddy"...so I guess I must have too when I was a little kid.

    and....truth be told, I think that term of "Daddy" is the most correct and was what Jesus was talking about.

    The word for a father that a very young child uses.


    The term "Dad" is what i called my father when I was a teenager and it was what i called him until he
    died.
    But "Daddy" is what I must have called him when I needed his guidance the most.




    what does this mean to my topic about God "Responding" to men?

    I think now that the use of the term "Daddy" lends itself to the understanding that God is so far above us, and is so wise, and so much ahead of us, that we cant ever dream of say, "God responded to me"
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-18-2017 at 07:38 PM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    as we ...or I seek to answer this fine question, I have to always keep in mind that "God does not learn anything"

    God does not 'respond" to new things happening ....God does not 'react'

    God does not do things from His point of view "after" something happens.
    So--after these repented and were water baptized--are you claiming God did not respond with the forgiveness of sins?

    Acts 2:38--King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Do you believe the forgiveness of sins is God's grace?

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    This is a question regarding the gift of Grace, and Faith.

    What proof can JD and others provide that prove that the gift of Grace and Faith is NOT a RESPONSE from God to Man for the choices Mankind makes, and actions he undertakes.

    Thanks.
    Read the first chapter of Ephesians..............oops, I guess you can't anymore.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    So--after these repented and were water baptized--are you claiming God did not respond with the forgiveness of sins?

    Acts 2:38--King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Do you believe the forgiveness of sins is God's grace?
    the word "for" in that verse means "as pertaining to."
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    the word "for" in that verse means "as pertaining to."
    where does the bible say it means that?
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    after a bit of listening to others...and checking the text...and my own limited ability to reason....I have come to this answer...

    1st - Galatians 4:6......Romans 8:15.........Mark 14:36 all teach us about how to address and think of God.

    The term we are to use is "Abba"



    yes, an odd little word, that really is never used in real life.

    So I very much doubt that God wants me to call him a name I dont got a clue about and is meaningless to me unless I google it.


    so......lets google it -
    "Abbá – "Father," also used as the term of tender endearment by a beloved child – i.e. in an affectionate, dependent relationship with their father; "daddy," "papa."


    So its clear the idea that Jesus was talking about and the Disciples to for that matter, is a term that gets actross the word a child calls their dad.

    I dont know about you but I never called my dad, "father"
    I dont remember calling him "daddy"...but then I think back to my younger brother and siste, and they did call my dad, "Daddy"...so I guess I must have too when I was a little kid.

    and....truth be told, I think that term of "Daddy" is the most correct and was what Jesus was talking about.

    The word for a father that a very young child uses.


    The term "Dad" is what i called my father when I was a teenager and it was what i called him until he
    died.
    But "Daddy" is what I must have called him when I needed his guidance the most.




    what does this mean to my topic about God "Responding" to men?

    I think now that the use of the term "Daddy" lends itself to the understanding that God is so far above us, and is so wise, and so much ahead of us, that we cant ever dream of say, "God responded to me"
    How did you go from understanding that the term "daddy" is used when we need guidance most to "that God is so far above us, and is so wise, and so much ahead of us, that we cant ever dream of say, "God responded to me"??

    You take the very meaning you understand and say it must not be so.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    the word "for" in that verse means "as pertaining to."
    If repentance and water baptism pertains to the forgiveness of sins--then how do you fit that into faith alone theology?

  11. #136
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I think this is a great question.....




    I need to think of a more ways to address this question....




    When it comes to God's plan for our salvation, what seems clear is that within God's plan and he preordained salvation for Chrostians, there is man's ability to respond to him that is also taken into account.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post So--after these repented and were water baptized--are you claiming God did not respond with the forgiveness of sins?

    Acts 2:38--King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Do you believe the forgiveness of sins is God's grace?
    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    the word "for" in that verse means "as pertaining to."
    Perhaps you could explain for us how that changes the fact Acts2:38 has God extending His salvational grace to them which do His work?

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ..... within God's plan and he preordained salvation for Christians, there is man's ability to respond to him that is also taken into account.

    This is the answer to all such questions as to the relationship of the terms "works" and 'faith"
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    This is the answer to all such questions as to the relationship of the terms "works" and 'faith"
    This is the answer the LDS rely upon:

    James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    This is the answer the LDS rely upon:

    James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    just let me know if you have any questions about what I have taught on the salvation issue.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    just let me know if you have any questions about what I have taught on the salvation issue.
    Alan--I have brought the question up numerous times--which has not been addressed directly, IMO.

    IOW--how is it the Bible testifies all men will be judged according to their works--after death--and that for life or damnation--and the faith alone preach one obtains salvation excluding all works?

    John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Where do we find the term "faith alone" in the Biblical text--other than the one instance here?

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Alan--I have brought the question up numerous times--which has not been addressed directly, IMO.

    IOW--how is it the Bible testifies all men will be judged according to their works--after death-]

    There is no "condemnation" for Christians like myself.
    But there is a judgement.


    The Lost, (non-Christians) are judged onto their condemnation, and are sent to burn forever in hell.

    The saved, (we Christians like myself) are judged onto our rewards.



    Now as to what "works" should a person be doing that count?....This is the answer we learn from the lips of Jesus-

    For Jesus was asked directly what are the works of God?
    The context of this is that we also know of the story of the guy who asked what to do to be saved?..and Jesus lists a bunch of the Law.
    The man answers that he had always kept the full law.
    Jesus does not disagree with the man abut this.
    The fact is that the man was correct, he had kept the law all his life.


    But the ending of the story is that even if you had kept the law you still are judged as lacking.....and to be lacking is to be lost.


    So then let us return to the question of "What are the works of God?"


    and Jesus gives us the answer - for Jesus teaches us that the work of God is to believe in the Son of God.






    Thats it.

    Thats the only "work" that matters with God.




    Notice that while we might ask, what "works" are important, that Jesus answers that there is but one single 'work" that counts.

    and thee work is to believe.....to have.....FAITH!
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    There is no "condemnation" for Christians like myself.
    Just a note here, Alan. The judgment, after death--is for all men--which includes Christians and non-Christian.

    John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    The works will determine who is Christian or not--not the "Lord""Lord" claim:

    Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Just a note here, Alan. The judgment, after death--is for all men--....
    There is no condemnation for us who are in Christ Jesus....

    Therefore we need not fear in the slightest way the judgement of God,,,for all my sins have already been forgiven and the slate is clean....it's as if I never sinned even the slightest of sins in my life....Im rightious and free of the stain of sin.


    So while the Lost are judged and sent to Hell's fire, the Christian is judged as to his eternal rewards!

    We are judged onto life everlasting,,,!!!!

    AMEN!
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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