Does God respond to Man?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

You interpret Romans NOT CONTEXTUALLY, but through the alien foreign lens of Mormon doctrine. Romans is teaching something radically different than what you think.

Christ's atonement negated spiritual , yes. Because Christ lives, we shall live too, hence He is the "firstfruit of resurrection".

What you're not understanding is that from a CAUSAL standpoint, God the Father is more than able to resurrect anyone at anytime.

God chose that Christ should overcome physical on our behalf, but I'm speaking from a different viewpoint regarding God's own OMNIPOTENCE.

Got it now?

So, if I am understanding you correctly, Christ's atonement was not needed to overcome physical death even though God chose Christ to overcome physical death. It could have been, according to you, someone else if God chose it, and therefore, when I read Romans, according to you, the fact that it was Christ that God chose to overcome physical death, I should not in any way use this information to understand Romans because it is an insignificant tidbit of information that really doesn't matter when understanding scripture. In otherwords, even though Christ was chosen to overcome physical death, because it could have been anybody, I should not to any degree use this as part of my understsanding (that it was Christ who overcame physical death) when interpretting scripture and strickly think of Christ overcoming spiritual death only as the other part is insignificant as it could have been anybody? (God being omnipotent, so Christ's role in this is insignificant.) Is this what you are saying?

[Father_JD]

No, you didn't understand correctly. It's NOT a case of "somebody else overcoming physical ", but that God SOVEREIGNLY CHOSE CHRIST to do this. What I'm saying, is based upon the doctrine of God's OMNIPOTENCE, He could resurrect anybody BY HIS SOVEREIGN DECREE.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

No, you didn't understand correctly. It's NOT a case of "somebody else overcoming physical ", but that God SOVEREIGNLY CHOSE CHRIST to do this. What I'm saying, is based upon the doctrine of God's OMNIPOTENCE, He could resurrect anybody BY HIS SOVEREIGN DECREE.

Sorry, I am still not understanding. You seem to be saying that it was not Christ that overcame death (physical) by the power of his atonement, but God the Father whose power overcame death relying nothing on Christ. Is this right?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Sorry, I am still not understanding. You seem to be saying that it was not Christ that overcame (physical) by the power of his atonement, but God the Father whose power overcame relying nothing on Christ. Is this right?

Nope. Didn't say that. Yes, Christ overcame . What I AM merely proposing is that based upon God's OMNIPOTENCE (got it NOW????)

He's more than able to resurrect ANYONE based upon his OMNIPOTENT POWER ALONE.

Got it...Finally??

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Nope. Didn't say that. Yes, Christ overcame . What I AM merely proposing is that based upon God's OMNIPOTENCE (got it NOW????)

He's more than able to resurrect ANYONE based upon his OMNIPOTENT POWER ALONE.

Got it...Finally??

No, I really don't. Who's omnipotent power are we discussing? Christ's?

Okay, so Christ dies on the cross....he goes down to the pit, to unlock the gates of hell....he overcomes death...but chooses another fellow to start the process? Is this what you are inferring, that it didn't have to be him to open the graves? I mean, it could of been him, but he could have started with someone else's body and then followed them? Wouldn't it still be then, Christ, who overcame physical death allowing us all to be resurrected?

Can you give me a case scenario in which you are envisioning, maybe that would help?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, I really don't. Who's omnipotent power are we discussing? Christ's?

Okay, so Christ dies on the cross....he goes down to the pit, to unlock the gates of hell....he overcomes ...but chooses another fellow to start the process? Is this what you are inferring, that it didn't have to be him to open the graves? I mean, it could of been him, but he could have started with someone else's body and then followed them? Wouldn't it still be then, Christ, who overcame physical allowing us all to be resurrected?

Can you give me a case scenario in which you are envisioning, maybe that would help?

Thanks for your honesty that you still don't understand. I don't know who else to express it:

God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has OMNIPOTENT POWER AND CAN RESURRECT ANYONE BASED UPON THIS ALONE.

It isn't a case of "somebody else".

Please try to think outside of the Mormon BOX.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Thanks for your honesty that you still don't understand. I don't know who else to express it:

God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) has OMNIPOTENT POWER AND CAN RESURRECT ANYONE BASED UPON THIS ALONE.

It isn't a case of "somebody else".

Please try to think outside of the Mormon BOX.

So, the according to you, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)---did not need to start the process via God? They could chosen anyone and started there because it did not require God himself start the process with himself. Is this what you are saying? In other words, it was not Jesus Christ that overcame physical death, it was God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) who overcame physical death and the broader "God" didn't need to start with the incarnated God to do this, right?

[Father_JD]

Forget "process". Forget "anyone else".

GOD IS OMNIPOTENT. He (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is MORE THAN capable of resurrecting ANYONE AT ANY TIME.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

You interpret Romans NOT CONTEXTUALLY, but through the alien foreign lens of Mormon doctrine. Romans is teaching something radically different than what you think.

Christ's atonement negated spiritual , yes. Because Christ lives, we shall live too, hence He is the "firstfruit of resurrection".

What you're not understanding is that from a CAUSAL standpoint, God the Father is more than able to resurrect anyone at anytime.

God chose that Christ should overcome physical on our behalf, but I'm speaking from a different viewpoint regarding God's own OMNIPOTENCE.

Got it now?

I suppose God, being omnipotent, could also break his own laws of justice and mercy, but wouldn't that make Him NO LONGER GOD?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I suppose God, being omnipotent, could also break his own laws of justice and mercy, but wouldn't that make Him NO LONGER GOD?

You do not understand the nature of God's "omnipotence", figgie that you could pose this kind of question. His own laws of justice, mercy, etc. are inviolable...and accord with the very nature of His being.

God can NOT LIE. It's against His own nature.

Now before you run off on a tangent that that means God isn't really "omnipotent", and embarr*** yourself, I suggest you understand what His "omnipotence" MEANS from the Biblical/Christian standpoint and NOT what Mormons IMAGINE it means.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

The bible does NOT teach that Jesus' resurrection is CAUSAL for other resurrections. God the Father is more than capable of stating, "Arise" and it's a done deal...with or without Jesus. The great promise for believers is that we will be resurrected just as Jesus Himself was.

---I must not be well, because I find myself agreeing with FJD here.
The above is essentially correct according to my understanding. God was able to resurrect us all, independently of Jesus. The only thing I would add is that LDS believe that once God had resurrected Jesus, He gave to Jesus that power to resurrect us. So when we get resurrected, it will be Jesus who will be doing it. God has conferred or will confer ALL His powers upon Jesus. So in that sense, it IS through Jesus that we will be resurrected, not to mention it is through Him (because of His atonement) that we will be saved from separation from God.

[Bat-Man]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---I must not be well, because I find myself agreeing with FJD here.
The above is essentially correct according to my understanding. God was able to resurrect us all, independently of Jesus. The only thing I would add is that LDS believe that once God had resurrected Jesus, He gave to Jesus that power to resurrect us. So when we get resurrected, it will be Jesus who will be doing it. God has conferred or will confer ALL His powers upon Jesus. So in that sense, it IS through Jesus that we will be resurrected, not to mention it is through Him (because of His atonement) that we will be saved from separation from God.

You say well when you say that God (our Father) conferred or will confer upon Jesus the power to resurrect others, but in like manner, Jesus conferred or will confer upon others the power to resurrect others and nobody without that power will be able to be resurrected.

Perhaps instead of asking if God could resurrect anyone if God wanted to, it would be better to ask if anyone can resurrect himself (or herself) without God's help, or Help, or Helper, aka our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[nrajeff]

Valid point, Bat Man.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---I must not be well, because I find myself agreeing with FJD here.
The above is essentially correct according to my understanding. God was able to resurrect us all, independently of Jesus. The only thing I would add is that LDS believe that once God had resurrected Jesus, He gave to Jesus that power to resurrect us. So when we get resurrected, it will be Jesus who will be doing it. God has conferred or will confer ALL His powers upon Jesus. So in that sense, it IS through Jesus that we will be resurrected, not to mention it is through Him (because of His atonement) that we will be saved from separation from God.

Only He had the power to lay down His life and take it up again. From His mortal mother, Mary, He inherited the ability to die. From His immortal Father, He inherited the power to overcome death. He declared, "As the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself" (John 5:26).

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...004d82620a____

The original discussion I was having with JD is whether because of Christ, we have overcome physical death (a favor given to all men) and the opportunity to overcome spiritual death (a favor given to those who accept Christ). He states that the atonement only allows us the ability to overcome spiritual death and has nothing to do with overcoming our physical death as God is omnipotent and the atonement was not necessary in this regard. Is this your thought as well?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

So WHAT?? Yes, it [resurrection] could have happened WITHOUT CHRIST.

I'm at a loss of words on this one.

[Father_JD]

I'm at a loss of words on this one.

God's a really big God, Figgie (the real one, ya know? Not the exalted human schmoe you think is God) and it didn't take Christ's resurrection to be a CAUSAL agent in any kind of resurrection.

All God has to say is, "ARISE!" and it's done.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Berean

The mere act of believing is a gift. In the Bible, it's clear to Christians that mankind is corrupt and sinful in nature. Mankind is born in a sinful state and that has been the case since the fall of man with Adam (Romans 5:12). This is the exact opposite belief in Mormonism (Articles of Faith #2). Mormons think they aren't born with original sin and are therefore "off the hook". That is a lie from Satan and the Mormons have fell for it face-first (Romans 5:12). There is nothing that man can do to please God (Romans 8:8). We are all corrupt in His sight (Romans 3:10, 12, 23). Our works are disgusting in His sight (Isaiah 64:6). Mankind is dead in their sins and unable to please God and it was God who had to "quicken" us FIRST (Ephesians 2:1 & 5). God does not hear the sinner unless that person has done His will (John 9:31) - given the ability to believe (Philippians 1:29). What is His will? Jesus tells us in John 6:40: believe on Jesus.

God isn't subject to the whims and decisions of mankind waiting for man to make the first move. Just the simple act of believing in Christ has to come from the Father (Philippians 1:29). The Father has to "draw" the person to Christ (John 6:44). When the Father "draws" mankind and gives mankind the ability to believe, because mankind is dead in their sins and can't respond on their own, then God will respond with hearing the sinner AFTER that person has believed on the Son (prayer of repentance). Mankind is awarded the gift of eternal life for choosing to believe in Jesus (John 6:47). It's God FIRST - NOT man making a move first requiring God to act. Man deserves nothing on his own or his own merits. It's all about God - not us doing anything worthy enough to get God to give us His attention. We can't...we're garbage in His sight apart from Christ. Those without the real Jesus (God in the flesh) as taugt in the Bible are utterly lost and dead.

Hey, this is great. Another advocate for unbelief has joined the ranks accompanied by hellfire, and ****ation preaching. Welcome Barean.

So, Barean says NO. God does not respond to man because man is like a vile worm in God's eyes.

[Berean]

Ah, Fig, what's the matter, you don't like those "plain and precious truths" from the Bible that state that you are born a sinner, dead in your sins and unable ON YOUR OWN FIRST to please God? That's what happens when you put your eternal destiny in what a 14 year-old farm boy from New York supposedly said when he decided to redefine Bible doctrines.

I didn't say that God doesn't respond to man. You need to pay attention. I'm saying that God gives mankind the ability to believe (Romans 1; Phil 1:29). If one prays to God and they haven't acted on that faith that has been given him bringing conviction, repentance and receiving the Son, then God the Father has no obligation to hear that person. When mankind acts on that belief that God has given him and believes on the Savior, then God gives the gift of eternal life. It's really very simple. God is not asleep somewhere waiting on man to make his move FIRST, then He does something. God has already moved - FIRST. You've been given the ability to believe and have decided to follow the "jesus" and god of Joseph Smith's imagination instead of the Christ and God of the Bible. You've also been made accountable for your heresy by being here on this forum where faithful Christians witness to you out of gra***ude for what the Savior has done for them (that's called "works" - Christians believe in works and do it too - not because they have to, but because they want to...big difference) and if you continue to put your faith in the fictional "jesus" of Mormonism and your god that is an exalted man living near a star called Kolob, then you will be judged for that too. You have no excuse (Romans 1:20).

Your "straw man" question in trying to be clever has only worked against you. Also, have you given TOTAL EFFORT for LDS grace? Yeah, I guess not. Where does that leave you? I guess still running the Mormon "hamster wheel" going nowhere. Nope, not everybody is going to make it to the real heaven as taught in the Bible. It's a narrow road and only few will go there. Most are headed for outer darkness (Matthew 7:13-14). You don't like it? Take it up with the Savior at the judgement. It's time to crawl out of your Mormon comfort zone and face the reality of where you stand according to the Bible: LOST.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Berean

Ah, Fig, what's the matter, you don't like those "plain and precious truths" from the Bible that state that you are born a sinner, dead in your sins and unable ON YOUR OWN FIRST to please God? That's what happens when you put your eternal destiny in what a 14 year-old farm boy from New York supposedly said when he decided to redefine Bible doctrines.

I didn't say that God doesn't respond to man. You need to pay attention. I'm saying that God gives mankind the ability to believe (Romans 1; Phil 1:29). If one prays to God and they haven't acted on that faith that has been given him bringing conviction, repentance and receiving the Son, then God the Father has no obligation to hear that person. When mankind acts on that belief that God has given him and believes on the Savior, then God gives the gift of eternal life. It's really very simple. God is not asleep somewhere waiting on man to make his move FIRST, then He does something. God has already moved - FIRST. You've been given the ability to believe and have decided to follow the "jesus" and god of Joseph Smith's imagination instead of the Christ and God of the Bible. You've also been made accountable for your heresy by being here on this forum where faithful Christians witness to you out of gra***ude for what the Savior has done for them (that's called "works" - Christians believe in works and do it too - not because they have to, but because they want to...big difference) and if you continue to put your faith in the fictional "jesus" of Mormonism and your god that is an exalted man living near a star called Kolob, then you will be judged for that too. You have no excuse (Romans 1:20).

Your "straw man" question in trying to be clever has only worked against you. Also, have you given TOTAL EFFORT for LDS grace? Yeah, I guess not. Where does that leave you? I guess still running the Mormon "hamster wheel" going nowhere. Nope, not everybody is going to make it to the real heaven as taught in the Bible. It's a narrow road and only few will go there. Most are headed for outer darkness (Matthew 7:13-14). You don't like it? Take it up with the Savior at the judgement. It's time to crawl out of your Mormon comfort zone and face the reality of where you stand according to the Bible: LOST.

OK. I happen to agree but would add that God gives all mankind the ability to believe, not just some?

So, then what?

Depending on what man does with this ability to believe, does God respond to Man? If you say "yes" then we agree (thus far.)

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

OK. I happen to agree but would add that God gives all mankind the ability to believe, not just some?

So, then what?

Depending on what man does with this ability to believe, does God respond to Man? If you say "yes" then we agree (thus far.)

For the record, I'm not a 5-pointer (Calvinist) and I'm certainly no hyper-Calvinist. That group can't explain to me why they "sit on their hands" when Christ made it clear in the Great Commission of Matthew 28 what believers are to do. You won't see hyper-Calvinists here anyway. They don't bother talking to Mormons - well, they don't bother talking to anyone...pretty lazy and not Scripturally supported.

To answer your question, all I can simply do is point to Romans 1:19-20 and say that God has made it obvious to all of creation who He is and has given people a measure of faith to believe. If not, then what He said in verse 20 "they are without excuse" would not hold up and we know that God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18).

The vast majority of people will not act on that measure of faith given to them. In John 1:9 Christ gives light to every man. This does not mean universal salvation or general revelation or even inner illumination. Instead, it means that Christ as the Light shines on each person either in salvation or in illuminating him with regard to his sin and coming judgement. Matthew 7:13-14 is clear when it says that most people are going to choose the "broad road" and head off to outer darkness. Is this what God wants? Absolutely not! See 2 Peter 3:9 and Ezekial 18:23 & 32.

When man, who is dead in his sins because he is born with a sin nature, acts on the faith and the ability to believe that was given to him by the Father, then YES, God will respond! If not, then why did the Son even come here?God hears the prayer of a repentant sinner who is acting on that measure of faith and putting their trust in His Son. God has already moved FIRST. Mankind has to respond with that faith. Next, God moves again (LAST) and gives man that gift of eternal life for acting on that faith by placing it in the Son. Again, it's all about God the Father and God the Son/Jesus. For us to put ourselves anywhere in the equation for our efforts in any regard is to downplay what God did for us FIRST and LAST (I'm not equating this with Isaiah 44:6).

I hope that makes sense.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Berean

For the record, I'm not a 5-pointer (Calvinist) and I'm certainly no hyper-Calvinist. That group can't explain to me why they "sit on their hands" when Christ made it clear in the Great Commission of Matthew 28 what believers are to do. You won't see hyper-Calvinists here anyway. They don't bother talking to Mormons - well, they don't bother talking to anyone...pretty lazy and not Scripturally supported.

To answer your question, all I can simply do is point to Romans 1:19-20 and say that God has made it obvious to all of creation who He is and has given people a measure of faith to believe. If not, then what He said in verse 20 "they are without excuse" would not hold up and we know that God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18).

The vast majority of people will not act on that measure of faith given to them. In John 1:9 Christ gives light to every man. This does not mean universal salvation or general revelation or even inner illumination. Instead, it means that Christ as the Light shines on each person either in salvation or in illuminating him with regard to his sin and coming judgement. Matthew 7:13-14 is clear when it says that most people are going to choose the "broad road" and head off to outer darkness. Is this what God wants? Absolutely not! See 2 Peter 3:9 and Ezekial 18:23 & 32.

When man, who is dead in his sins because he is born with a sin nature, acts on the faith and the ability to believe that was given to him by the Father, then YES, God will respond! If not, then why did the Son even come here?God hears the prayer of a repentant sinner who is acting on that measure of faith and putting their trust in His Son. God has already moved FIRST. Mankind has to respond with that faith. Next, God moves again (LAST) and gives man that gift of eternal life for acting on that faith by placing it in the Son. Again, it's all about God the Father and God the Son/Jesus. For us to put ourselves anywhere in the equation for our efforts in any regard is to downplay what God did for us FIRST and LAST (I'm not equating this with Isaiah 44:6).

I hope that makes sense.

I think we actually agree on some points. But if, as you say, God has made it obvious to all of creation who He is and has given people a measure of faith to believe. If not, then what He said in verse 20 "they are without excuse" would not hold up and we know that God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18).

If Jesus Christ is obvious to all, including all those who never heard of him, then why the great commission? And why didn't the great commission include the heathen nations that were separated from the Apostles by oceans?

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I think we actually agree on some points. But if, as you say, God has made it obvious to all of creation who He is and has given people a measure of faith to believe. If not, then what He said in verse 20 "they are without excuse" would not hold up and we know that God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18).

If Jesus Christ is obvious to all, including all those who never heard of him, then why the great commission? And why didn't the great commission include the heathen nations that were separated from the Apostles by oceans?

The person, work, earthly ministry, deity and nature of Jesus Christ is not known to all mankind. The gospel message isn't known to all of mankind. Right, that would make the command in the Great Commission pointless and confusing. What is made known to mankind is the inner awareness that there is a God. He created what we see, stand on, etc. We have inner awareness of right and wrong. He has made it known to us. That is one of the points made in Romans chapter 1.

The Great Commission does include the heathen nations of the world. The Apostles went out as far as they could obviously and fulfilled their personal ministry in fulfilling the Great Commission. They were all martyred for it except for John. He died an old man in 101 AD in the city of Ephesus. I know D&C 7 says otherwise, but you can accept the historical record or you can accept Joseph Smith's personal opinion. History says he is wrong. The apostles died and other "picked up the torch" and kept going. The disciples of the original 12 are known in Christianity as the early church Fathers. For example, Jesus discipled John. John discipled Polycarp. Polycarp discipled Irenaeus. It just goes on from there...a successive line.

Christians are in those heathen nations now and have been for many years. I am a supporter and involved in a ministry called Voice of the Martyrs. They've been around for over 40 years. They support the persecuted church all over the world in hostile nations. People have no idea what is going on out there when it comes to modern-day fulfilling of the Great Commission. Christians are still being brutally martyred, abused, tortured and persecuted in many hostile nations. The monthly newsletter and magazine has the color photos to prove it. It's physically nauseating to look at the photos. It's heartbreaking and it's a reality check for American Christians who are here being comfy and cozy. The numbers of Christians who are dying for their faith because of fulfilling the Great Commission today is staggering. Does the LDS Church do this?

Voice of the Martyrs: http://www.persecution.com/

[Berean]

Big Julie said: "I haven't blindly accepted anything. I trust that God does hear and answer my prayers and that his answers will be congruent with what he teaches. You can make fun a seer stone all you want, but other religions can make fun of a talking donkey, animals marching on to a boat, ephods, and animal sacrifices. I do not make fun of any of these things because I understand that the things of God are often laughed at by mankind."

I'm not making fun of it (seer stone). I'm stating a historical LDS fact that most Mormons have no clue about. Seer stone in the hat...so much for the plates, huh? By the way, the "talking donkey, animals marching on to a boat, ephods and animal sacrifices" is in the LDS Standard Works as well. It's in my LDS KJV Bible. If you don't like it or think that shouldn't be in Mormonism because of Julie's opinion, then contact your ward bishop and work your way up to the top and see about having the Standard Works "adjusted" just like they did with the introduction to the Book of Mormon in the latest printing as compared to the 1981 version...nothing new here. The LDS Church has been doing these corrections and modifications since the 1830 version came out. I've read it and I couldn't believe the difference between the 1830 and the 1981 versions.

Anyway, Joseph Smith's seer stone is not in my LDS KJV Bible. That's called divination in Deuteronomy 18:10 and an abomination in verse 12. If you don't have a problem with this blatant misinterpretation of LDS history (your church said that Joseph Smith used the plates when he didn't) and you have swallowed this "bad medicine" down and you don't care and have no problem with it, then any type of discussion on grace and faith is a waste of time.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Berean

I'm not making fun of it (seer stone). I'm stating a historical LDS fact that most Mormons have no clue about. Seer stone in the hat...so much for the plates, huh? By the way, the "talking donkey, animals marching on to a boat, ephods and animal sacrifices" is in the LDS Standard Works as well. It's in my LDS KJV Bible. If you don't like it or think that shouldn't be in Mormonism because of Julie's opinion, then contact your ward bishop and work your way up to the top and see about having the Standard Works "adjusted" just like they did with the introduction to the Book of Mormon in the latest printing as compared to the 1981 version...nothing new here. The LDS Church has been doing these corrections and modifications since the 1830 version came out. I've read it and I couldn't believe the difference between the 1830 and the 1981 versions.

You are all over the place with accusations. Don't worry, I have heard it all before, looked at it, and your claims only show a lacking of how the church works and how God works. I am glad you believe in talking donkeys as well. Good to know that there is plenty to scratch our head about if we are looking for logic.

Anyway, Joseph Smith's seer stone is not in my LDS KJV Bible. That's called divination in Deuteronomy 18:10 and an abomination in verse 12. If you don't have a problem with this blatant misinterpretation of LDS history (your church said that Joseph Smith used the plates when he didn't) and you have swallowed this "bad medicine" down and you don't care and have no problem with it, then any type of discussion on grace and faith is a waste of time.

Do some research on the ephod and the Urim and Thummin and see what you find in the Bible...see what you can piece together.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Berean

The person, work, earthly ministry, deity and nature of Jesus Christ is not known to all mankind. The gospel message isn't known to all of mankind. Right, that would make the command in the Great Commission pointless and confusing. What is made known to mankind is the inner awareness that there is a God. He created what we see, stand on, etc. We have inner awareness of right and wrong. He has made it known to us. That is one of the points made in Romans chapter 1.

But isn't salvation dependent 'specifically' on a knowledge of and belief in the person named "Jesus Christ"? Isn't a knowledge and acceptance of the Gospel essential to salvation?

Or are you (or Paul), saying that for some people in this world, it is just the belief in a Supreme Being that will bring them to salvation, and these folks don't need to have a specific belief in the name and person of Jesus Christ?