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Thread: Does God respond to Man?

  1. #76
    Bat-Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I believe God is omnipotent too...that is not the question and you are not answering it by explaining something to me I already know. It is like asking you why you believe 1+1=5 and you keep answering over and over, "numbers are real." I know numbers are real, I am trying to understand your logic of how that applies.
    BigJulie,
    Father_JD believes God's omnipotence means God has the power to make 1+1=5, whether or not you can believe it or understand how God would do it.

    That's the kind of "logic" you are up against, here.

    It's basically like listening to a child who says "My Dad can do ANYTHING!"

    ... which is kinda cute, but not really based on reality.

  2. #77
    nrajeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    The bible does NOT teach that Jesus' resurrection is CAUSAL for other resurrections. God the Father is more than capable of stating, "Arise" and it's a done deal...with or without Jesus. The great promise for believers is that we will be resurrected just as Jesus Himself was.
    ---I must not be well, because I find myself agreeing with FJD here.
    The above is essentially correct according to my understanding. God was able to resurrect us all, independently of Jesus. The only thing I would add is that LDS believe that once God had resurrected Jesus, He gave to Jesus that power to resurrect us. So when we get resurrected, it will be Jesus who will be doing it. God has conferred or will confer ALL His powers upon Jesus. So in that sense, it IS through Jesus that we will be resurrected, not to mention it is through Him (because of His atonement) that we will be saved from separation from God.

  3. #78
    Bat-Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    ---I must not be well, because I find myself agreeing with FJD here.
    The above is essentially correct according to my understanding. God was able to resurrect us all, independently of Jesus. The only thing I would add is that LDS believe that once God had resurrected Jesus, He gave to Jesus that power to resurrect us. So when we get resurrected, it will be Jesus who will be doing it. God has conferred or will confer ALL His powers upon Jesus. So in that sense, it IS through Jesus that we will be resurrected, not to mention it is through Him (because of His atonement) that we will be saved from separation from God.
    You say well when you say that God (our Father) conferred or will confer upon Jesus the power to resurrect others, but in like manner, Jesus conferred or will confer upon others the power to resurrect others and nobody without that power will be able to be resurrected.

    Perhaps instead of asking if God could resurrect anyone if God wanted to, it would be better to ask if anyone can resurrect himself (or herself) without God's help, or Help, or Helper, aka our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    You don't believe God is "omnipotent"...you Mos merely pay lip-service to this. You don't believe He could call things into existence "ex nihilo" but can only shape "eternal, pre-existent" muck in his cosmic hands...
    Wow, JD, you have gone from not just judging me, but to now knowing better than I do what I believe in. What next?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeff View Post
    ---I must not be well, because I find myself agreeing with FJD here.
    The above is essentially correct according to my understanding. God was able to resurrect us all, independently of Jesus. The only thing I would add is that LDS believe that once God had resurrected Jesus, He gave to Jesus that power to resurrect us. So when we get resurrected, it will be Jesus who will be doing it. God has conferred or will confer ALL His powers upon Jesus. So in that sense, it IS through Jesus that we will be resurrected, not to mention it is through Him (because of His atonement) that we will be saved from separation from God.
    Only He had the power to lay down His life and take it up again. From His mortal mother, Mary, He inherited the ability to die. From His immortal Father, He inherited the power to overcome death. He declared, "As the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself" (John 5:26).

    http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...004d82620a____

    The original discussion I was having with JD is whether because of Christ, we have overcome physical death (a favor given to all men) and the opportunity to overcome spiritual death (a favor given to those who accept Christ). He states that the atonement only allows us the ability to overcome spiritual death and has nothing to do with overcoming our physical death as God is omnipotent and the atonement was not necessary in this regard. Is this your thought as well?
    Last edited by BigJulie; 06-04-2009 at 03:36 PM.

  6. #81
    nrajeff
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    Valid point, Bat Man.

  7. #82
    Bat-Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Wow, JD, you have gone from not just judging me, but to now knowing better than I do what I believe in. What next?
    What's next, you ask ?

    Next will be Father_JD telling you that you should believe in whatever Father_JD believes in, with Father_JD being the one who will tell you what is right and wrong, and good and evil, and true and false, etc.

    Stay tuned.

    And btw, I've already seen this, before. It's a re-run.

  8. #83
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Wow, JD, you have gone from not just judging me, but to now knowing better than I do what I believe in. What next?
    You've more than amply demonstrated your CORRUPT Mormon doctrine which has NO support from the Bible, so YES, I know WHAT you believe, BJ.

    And it ain't "Biblical" that's for sure!!

  9. #84
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Man View Post
    What's next, you ask ?

    Next will be Father_JD telling you that you should believe in whatever Father_JD believes in, with Father_JD being the one who will tell you what is right and wrong, and good and evil, and true and false, etc.

    Stay tuned.

    And btw, I've already seen this, before. It's a re-run.
    LOL. Such a coward that you won't address me directly will you, BM??

    It's NOT a case of "believing what I believe", but it IS a case of BELIEVING THE BIBLE AND NOT YOUR LYING PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH!!!

  10. #85
    Father_JD
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    BigJulie,
    Father_JD believes God's omnipotence means God has the power to make 1+1=5, whether or not you can believe it or understand how God would do it.
    Nonsense. That's what MORMONS BELIEVE as EVIDENT when objective proof demonstrates the FALSITY of JS writings, teachings, and when confronted with the evidence, Mormons retreat into a fideistic pose of "God told me it's true, therefore it must be even if it CONTRADICTS LOGIC AND REASON."

    It's Mormons who are capable of believing "1+1 = 5", NOT Christians!

    That's the kind of "logic" you are up against, here.

    It's basically like listening to a child who says "My Dad can do ANYTHING!"

    ... which is kinda cute, but not really based on reality.

    Well, now, BM let's see what YOU mean by "omnipotence", 'k?

    One thing's certain, it will demonstrable that your understanding of the term is NOT BIBLICAL.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    You've more than amply demonstrated your CORRUPT Mormon doctrine which has NO support from the Bible, so YES, I know WHAT you believe, BJ.

    And it ain't "Biblical" that's for sure!!
    Jill, I am wondering if you would be willing to jump in here. You see, when I try to explain what I believe to JD, he accuses me that I believe something different because he knows better. Now, you explain that we cannot use the term anti-Mormon because it is an attack. But I don't know what else to call JD's behavior. You see, I am a Mormon and he isn't just making a claim about what he thinks my church stance is, he is making a claim about me. He claims he knows what I believe better than I do. I am not sure how he justifies this as he has not walked in my shoes.
    Last edited by BigJulie; 06-05-2009 at 02:30 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    It's Mormons who are capable of believing "1+1 = 5", NOT Christians!
    Thank you, Father_JD.

    If I had been the one to say God could NOT make 1+1=5, I think YOU would have jumped in saying that I was DENYING God's OMNIPOTENCE.

    You played right into my hands.

    Thanks for playing.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    You see, when I try to explain what I believe to JD, he accuses me that I believe something different because he knows better. Now, you explain that we cannot use the term anti-Mormon because it is an attack. But I don't know what else to call JD's behavior. You see, I am a Mormon and he isn't just making a claim about what he thinks my church stance is, he is making a claim about me. He claims he knows what I believe better than I do. I am not sure how he justifies this as he has not walked in my shoes.
    BigJulie,

    Just call Father_JD Father_JD. That is who he really is.

    There's no need to call him anti... whatever, or even pro-whatever.

    Just acknowledge his beliefs as his beliefs, and his works as his works, and his name as his name, with his name being Father_JD.

    ... and if you haven't caught on yet, Father_JD likes to deny whatever any LDS says about anything. That's just what he does.

    ... and, of course, he will deny that what I have said is true.

    He'll deny whatever I say whenever I say anything, or say that I have the wrong idea, or say that I am WRONG or DECEIVED or... whatever... as long as it's not anything good.

  14. #89
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Jill, I am wondering if you would be willing to jump in here. You see, when I try to explain what I believe to JD, he accuses me that I believe something different because he knows better. Now, you explain that we cannot use the term anti-Mormon because it is an attack. But I don't know what else to call JD's behavior. You see, I am a Mormon and he isn't just making a claim about what he thinks my church stance is, he is making a claim about me. He claims he knows what I believe better than I do. I am not sure how he justifies this as he has not walked in my shoes.

    Let's get some things straight, ok?

    First of all, I am anti-MORMONISM.

    I only know what you believe because you have consistently posted status-quo Mormon doctrines and beliefs. I'm not guessing here, I'm merely pointing out to you that your Mormon beliefs are not scriptural.

    FYI, I was born into an LDS family in SLC, Utah...so I HAVE walked in your shoes and I know those shoes are taking you anywhere but Heaven.

  15. #90
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Man View Post
    BigJulie,

    Just call Father_JD Father_JD. That is who he really is.

    There's no need to call him anti... whatever, or even pro-whatever.

    Just acknowledge his beliefs as his beliefs, and his works as his works, and his name as his name, with his name being Father_JD.

    ... and if you haven't caught on yet, Father_JD likes to deny whatever any LDS says about anything. That's just what he does.

    ... and, of course, he will deny that what I have said is true.

    He'll deny whatever I say whenever I say anything, or say that I have the wrong idea, or say that I am WRONG or DECEIVED or... whatever... as long as it's not anything good.
    LOL. I have demonstrated from scripture WHY your beliefs are NOT "Biblical", BM. Do you think I simply oppose them for the sake of opposition?

    Hardly.

  16. #91
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Man View Post
    Thank you, Father_JD.

    If I had been the one to say God could NOT make 1+1=5, I think YOU would have jumped in saying that I was DENYING God's OMNIPOTENCE.

    You played right into my hands.

    Thanks for playing.
    Uh, it's Mormons who attempt to make "1+1=5" by denying OBJECTIVE evidence in favor of SUBJECTIVE FEELINGS when the evidence is CONTRARY to both LOGIC AND REASON, BM.

    That's when the fideistic "God told me so..." kicks in...and it's kicked in plenty in your own case!!!

    And typically "Mormon" you evade the issue, in this case, God's OMNIPOTENCE.

    Only Mos think they're clever with such posers as:

    "Can God make a rock so heaven that even He can't lift it?"


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Father_JD; 06-06-2009 at 10:57 AM.

  17. #92
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    Because God DEIGNED it to be so. Christ's resurrection signaled the efficacy of His atonement.
    So, according to Father JD, the one who first broke the bands of death to become the first fruits of them that slept did not need to be sinless. God could have made a sinful person the first fruits of the resurrection just as easily.

    Something just doesn't sound right with that train of thought that says an omnipotent God would do such a thing.

  18. #93
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    So, according to Father JD, the one who first broke the bands of death to become the first fruits of them that slept did not need to be sinless. God could have made a sinful person the first fruits of the resurrection just as easily.

    Something just doesn't sound right with that train of thought that says an omnipotent God would do such a thing.
    The Bible is clear that a sinless, perfect sacrifice was NECESSARY to appease God's wrath against mankind. I don't see a clear teaching that resurrection was necessarily brought about by Jesus' atonement.

    If you've got Biblical proof that's the case, then by all means show me and I'll happily change my position, Fig.

    (Remember, however, I was speaking from the perspective of God's ATTRIBUTE of omnipotence...He clearly deigned to bring resurrection to us via Jesus...I'm NOT arguing against that)

  19. #94
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    The Bible is clear that a sinless, perfect sacrifice was NECESSARY to appease God's wrath against mankind. I don't see a clear teaching that resurrection was necessarily brought about by Jesus' atonement.

    If you've got Biblical proof that's the case, then by all means show me and I'll happily change my position, Fig.

    (Remember, however, I was speaking from the perspective of God's ATTRIBUTE of omnipotence...He clearly deigned to bring resurrection to us via Jesus...I'm NOT arguing against that)
    First, define omnipotence. For example, do you think that God's omnipotence means that he can violate his own laws of justice? Does God's omnipotence mean that he can save people by means other than through Jesus Christ?

    I think the Bible can be used to show that Jesus had the power to take up his own life, but the ordinary man did not.

  20. #95
    PostTribber
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    Default you bet'cha God responds!

    "I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." (Genesis 7:4)

  21. #96
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    First, define omnipotence.
    "All powerful"...that's what the word MEANS.

    For example, do you think that God's omnipotence means that he can violate his own laws of justice?

    Nope.


    Does God's omnipotence mean that he can save people by means other than through Jesus Christ?
    Nope.


    I think the Bible can be used to show that Jesus had the power to take up his own life, but the ordinary man did not.
    Who said anything about an "ordinary man" who COULD, Fig???

    Jesus had the "power" because he is GOD INCARNATE. You are NOT...despite your fervid hopes of being your own godlet someday.

    So where's the scriptural evidence for your view??

  22. #97
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    Jesus had the "power" because he is GOD INCARNATE. You are NOT...despite your fervid hopes of being your own godlet someday.
    And with this admission of yours, I ask why you would think that the bands of death could have been broken by any person other than Jesus Christ?

  23. #98
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    And with this admission of yours, I ask why you would think that the bands of death could have been broken by any person other than Jesus Christ?
    They couldn't. Only the TRIUNE God is capable of that:

    The Father is.
    The Son is.
    The Holy Spirit is.


    And if you knew the Bible (as Mormons always claim to know but really don't) you would be aware of the scriptures that declare:

    The Father raised the Son.
    The Son raised Himself.
    The Holy Spirit raised the Son.

    Think on that.

  24. #99
    Fig-bearing Thistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father_JD View Post
    They couldn't. Only the TRIUNE God is capable of that:

    The Father is.
    The Son is.
    The Holy Spirit is.


    And if you knew the Bible (as Mormons always claim to know but really don't) you would be aware of the scriptures that declare:

    The Father raised the Son.
    The Son raised Himself.
    The Holy Spirit raised the Son.

    Think on that.
    What about Mary. Didn't she also raise the Son?

    Then it seems we are in agreement that only Jesus could have broken the bands of death. And our only point of contention is whether the resurrection has anything to do with the atonement or not.

  25. #100
    Father_JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle View Post
    What about Mary. Didn't she also raise the Son?
    Good one, Fig!

    Then it seems we are in agreement that only Jesus could have broken the bands of death. And our only point of contention is whether the resurrection has anything to do with the atonement or not.
    That's what I've been saying all along, Fig.

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