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Thread: The three Jewish Temples.

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Default The three Jewish Temples.

    There were actually three in the past and a fourth will be built.

    Solomon's Temple destroyed in 586 BC.
    Zerubbabel's Temple / Herod's Temple destroyed in 70 AD.
    Tribulation Temple / Millennial Temple.

    The tribulation Temple, surprisingly to most, will not be destroyed. Passages thought to indicate it will refer rather to Zerubbabel's /Herod's Temple.

    Luke 19:41-44
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it
    42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes.
    43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side.
    44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

    And so on.

    The Temple will be cleansed and used during the Millennium as a ceremonial thanksgiving worship center when Edenic conditions are restored to the Earth and people will live to be about a 1000 years old.

    Isaiah 65:20
    20 “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.


    Isaiah 2
    1 This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
    2 In the last days the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.
    3 Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
    4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
    5 Come, O house of Jacob, let us walk in the light of the LORD.
    6 You have abandoned your people, the house of Jacob. They are full of superstitions from the East; they practice divination like the Philistines and clasp hands with pagans.
    7 Their land is full of silver and gold; there is no end to their treasures. Their land is full of horses; there is no end to their chariots.
    8 Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.
    9 So man will be brought low and mankind humbled— do not forgive them.
    10 Go into the rocks, hide in the ground from dread of the LORD and the splendor of his majesty!
    11 The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.
    12 The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled),
    13 for all the cedars of Lebanon, tall and lofty, and all the oaks of Bashan,
    14 for all the towering mountains and all the high hills,
    15 for every lofty tower and every fortified wall,
    16 for every trading ship and every stately vessel.
    17 The arrogance of man will be brought low and the pride of men humbled; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day,
    18 and the idols will totally disappear.
    19 Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from dread of the LORD and the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to shake the earth.
    20 In that day men will throw away to the rodents and bats their idols of silver and idols of gold, which they made to worship.
    21 They will flee to caverns in the rocks and to the overhanging crags from dread of the LORD and the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to shake the earth.
    22 Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Default Messianic Prophecy and False Messianic Prophecy

    Don't let the title mislead you. This is not about true Messianic Prophecy versus false prophecies about the Messiah. This is about two types of prophecy:

    • The True Messiah
    • The False Messiah

    There aren't as many prophecies about the ultimate false messiah as there are about the true Messiah, Jesus. But there are many prophecies about the false messiah. And as the prophecies about the true Messiah are authenticators and identifiers of him, so are the prophecies about the false messiah about him.

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-11
    1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
    2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
    3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
    4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
    6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
    7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
    8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
    9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
    10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

    John 17:12
    12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

    Acts 1:17-25
    17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
    18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
    19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
    20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’
    21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
    23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
    25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

    Revelation 20:1-3
    1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
    3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

    Revelation 20:7-10
    7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
    8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
    9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
    10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    Remember Satan personally entered (possessed) Judas:

    Luke 22:3
    3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

    John 13:26-27
    26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
    27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

    It was go for broke defeat the Son of God moment ensuring his defeat on the cross, so the devil pulled out all the plugs to personally enter a human being (which apparently is what imprisons fallen angels Jude 6 to the fate of that human host)


    Isaiah 14
    7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet; They break forth into singing.
    8 Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you, And the cedars of Lebanon, Saying, ‘Since you were cut down, No woodsman has come up against us.’
    9 “Hell from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.
    10 They all shall speak and say to you: ‘Have you also become as weak as we? Have you become like us?
    11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.’
    12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
    13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’
    15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
    16 “Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
    17 Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
    18 “All the kings of the nations, All of them, sleep in glory, Everyone in his own house;
    19 But you are cast out of your grave Like an abominable branch, Like the garment of those who are slain, Thrust through with a sword, Who go down to the stones of the pit, Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
    20 You will not be joined with them in burial, Because you have destroyed your land And slain your people. The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Revelation 13
    1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
    2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
    4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
    5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
    6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
    7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
    8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
    10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.
    12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
    14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth— by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.
    15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
    16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
    17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

    Then I stood on the sand of the sea.


    Genesis 22:17
    17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

    Abraham has two lineages, physical heirs (sand by the sea) and spiritual heirs (stars of the heavens). Incidentally, it is these stars that Lucifer claimed he would raise himself above. And for a time, times, and half a time he is given the power to do so (see Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:5-10). Since believers in Jesus Christ will not take the mark of the beast... and no one can buy nor sell without it (food, shelter, clothing etc), then 666 is actually a tracking device to find those who refuse to take it.

    And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,

    The sea in scripture is the depiction of deep darkness, the unknown (Genesis 1:2, Isaiah 29:15, Daniel 2:22), and of the masses of peoples of the nations (Revelation 17:14). This is where the tendency to Gentilize the antichrist comes from. Rather, the warnings of the Lord himself and other prophecies suggest the beast will be Jewish (Daniel 11:37, Matthew 24:15-20) but will have influence over the Gentiles. See Revelation 13:4-8.

    having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.

    See Revelation 17 & 18 which describe the Sanhedrin / court of the beast

    Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.

    Many have undertaken this passage to determine where he comes from. it may just be describing the kings / kingdoms that will give their power to the beast (Revelation 17 & 18). That being the case, I find the fickle-mindedness of mankind prevents much certainty in these kinds of prophetic studies. Many nations used the symbols (some to purposely align with prophecy).

    The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

    This is one of the most convincing verses in the Bible (to me) that Judas is the antichrist. What human being would the devil give his power and throne and great authority to except the one man he personally possessed?

    And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded,

    Judas hanged himself. His body burst open on the rocks below (interestingly in the Hinnom valley where Gehenna or hell was a depiction of early on in Hebrew theology).

    and his deadly wound was healed.

    Revelation 20 clearly states the devil will be loosed again from the abyss for a short season. We call that season Daniel's 70th Week. Half of which is the believer's tribulation which the devil imposes on them. Half is the great tribulation where God's wrath is poured out on the world and the devil.

    And all the world marveled and followed the beast.

    This would have to be the most convincing evidence of all time to fool skeptics, atheists, and other religions to follow this guy. Think of it. If Judas Iscariot came back from the grave and was able to prove he is who he says he is. DNA or blood content common to 2000 years ago. The world would hang on his every word.

    So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

    When one comes back from the dead... who can make war with them by physical means?

    And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

    42 months is half the 7 year period known as the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27).

    Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.


    It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

    All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    If anyone has an ear, let him hear.


    He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    Revelation 3:10
    10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.

    And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

    And he deceives those who dwell on the earth— by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

    This is a tandem prophecy about one and the same person whose previous life had nothing at all to do with the messianic office. But Judas will blaspheme against God yet somehow still convince the Jews (John 5:43). It will be Jesus he blasphemes claiming he was not Christ. And this "other" beast" will be Judas portrayal of himself as the messiah (note the messianic symbolism of two horns like a lamb...)

    He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.


    It amazes me the 2000 year old prophecies about modern technology like this apparent prophecy of computerized robotics. Like the satellite television capabilities in Revelation 11:9-10, or the nuclear blast (Zechariah 14:12).

    He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
    and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
    Last edited by johnd; 10-24-2009 at 08:40 PM.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Here is wisdom.

    1 Kings 10:14
    14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,

    Let him who has understanding

    2 Chronicles 9:1313 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred and threescore and six talents of gold;

    calculate the number of the beast,

    for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.


    Ezra 2:13
    13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.
    Nehemiah 7:1717 The children of Azgad, two thousand three hundred twenty and two.

    Nehemiah 7:18
    18 The children of Adonikam, six hundred threescore and seven.

    Adoni qum means "risen lord" hailing back to Revelation 13:3. And as we see in the second census there was an addition to the tribe of Adonikam signifying that the tribe itself is not in the false messianic line or prophecy.

    So Solomon... the man with the most understanding and wisdom... who lead Israel into idolatry and paganism (worship of foreign gods). Builder of the first Temple...

    The false messiah / antichrist will also be a builder of the Jewish temple.

    In fact, the calculation of the number of the beast is about the two Jewish temples which were destroyed on the same Hebrew calendar date 666 years apart.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Default Trivia

    Incidentally...

    The first and second Jewish temples read like this...

    Temple one destroyed in 586 BCE laid in ruins 70 years then it was rebuilt (temple two) stood 586 years and was destroyed in 70 CE.
    Last edited by johnd; 02-09-2013 at 10:45 PM.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Temple one was destroyed on Tisha b'AV 586 BCE
    Temple two was destroyed on Tisha b'Av 70 CE

    the same calendar date on the Hebrew calendars 666 Hebrew years apart to the day.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member asdf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Temple one was destroyed on Tisha b'AV 586 BCE
    Temple two was destroyed on Tisha b'Av 70 CE

    the same calendar date on the Hebrew calendars 666 Hebrew years apart to the day.
    586+70=656

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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    586+70=656

    What am I missing?
    365.25 days = 1 year Gentile
    360 days = 1 year Jewish

    365.25 X 656 ÷ 360 = 665.666666 (solved as precisely 666 because the dates are exact).
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    365.25 days = 1 year Gentile
    360 days = 1 year Jewish

    365.25 X 656 ÷ 360 = 665.666666 (solved as precisely 666 because the dates are exact).
    Okay, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    365.25 days = 1 year Gentile
    360 days = 1 year Jewish

    365.25 X 656 ÷ 360 = 665.666666 (solved as precisely 666 because the dates are exact).
    But wait a second. According to the all-knowing Wikipedia (), the Hebrew calendar is lunisolar, not strictly lunar.

    Tisha B'Av always falls in July or August. . .so how can you gain an extra 10 years in there?

    EDITED TO ADD: not to mention that the calendar—and thus the feast days—are tied to the schedule of harvest.
    Because of the roughly eleven-day difference between twelve lunar months and one solar year, the year lengths of the Hebrew calendar vary in a repeating 19-year Metonic cycle of 235 lunar months, with an intercalary lunar month added according to defined rules every two or three years, for a total of 7 times per 19 years. Seasonal references in the Hebrew calendar reflect its development in the region east of the Mediterranean and the times and climate of the Northern Hemisphere. The Hebrew calendar's year is longer by about 6 minutes and 25+25/57 seconds than the present-day mean solar year, so that every 224 years, the Hebrew calendar will fall a full day behind the modern fixed solar year, and about every 231 years it will fall a full day behind the Gregorian calendar year.
    (wiki)
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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    So... the renown infallible author of wiki takes a clearly biblical 360 day year and reckons it to the contemporary (extra-biblical) solar 365.25 day year?

    Is that what you are saying?

    And are you implying precision in the keeping of the solar years calendar since lest say the more recent 1000 years?

    As opposed to the ancient reckoning of the Jews who dogmatically marked off each and every calendar week (shomer shabbos)...

    To be clear...

    Is that what you are saying?
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    So... the renown infallible author of wiki takes a clearly biblical 360 day year and reckons it to the contemporary (extra-biblical) solar 365.25 day year?

    Is that what you are saying?

    And are you implying precision in the keeping of the solar years calendar since lest say the more recent 1000 years?

    As opposed to the ancient reckoning of the Jews who dogmatically marked off each and every calendar week (shomer shabbos)...

    To be clear...

    Is that what you are saying?
    No, I'm not saying any such thing. I'm simply asking you for more information about your claim, since I've never heard it before, it seems odd to me, and I can't make sense of it based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the Bible and of ancient Jewish culture.

    I'm sorry if this is common knowledge, but could you walk me through it? Could you demonstrate to me how you came up with a "clearly biblical 360 day year"?
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    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Prophetic years (360 day years) do not necessarily line up with solar years (which as can be pointed out as recently as the 1700's CE have been inaccurately kept and maintained).
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Prophetic years (360 day years) do not necessarily line up with solar years (which as can be pointed out as recently as the 1700's CE have been inaccurately kept and maintained).
    Further down the rabbit hole we go...

    Are you now positing yet a third type of year needed to make your calculations work—a Hebrew year, a 'Gentile' year, and a 'prophetic' year?

    It's a pretty interesting hypothesis, I must say—but I'm still holding out judgment until I see the evidence laid out.
    God’s seal is truth.
    – Talmud

  15. #15
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    The Bible establishes many time tables.

    Those who would only be skeptical will never understand or apply them.

    The seven day week, for example. Folks like you tried to make it a 10 day week at one time which obviously did not work or did not take. So why 7 days?

    God set some of these time tables into universal motion while others not so universal (the years of Jubilee or the Heptade versus the standards decade).

    No matter. And your snide comment about rabbit trails reminds me why I flushed you down the ignore hole to begin with... so down you go again to stay swirling ever downward out of my precious time.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

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    Senior Member asdf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    The Bible establishes many time tables.

    Those who would only be skeptical will never understand or apply them.

    The seven day week, for example. Folks like you tried to make it a 10 day week at one time which obviously did not work or did not take. So why 7 days?

    God set some of these time tables into universal motion while others not so universal (the years of Jubilee or the Heptade versus the standards decade).

    No matter. And your snide comment about rabbit trails reminds me why I flushed you down the ignore hole to begin with... so down you go again to stay swirling ever downward out of my precious time.
    Indeed — wouldn't want to waste your precious time having to actually think about or provide evidence for your unsubstantiated assertions. It's so much easier to just cast me out as mentally deficient or reprobate for daring to question your infallibility.

    You have fun with that.
    God’s seal is truth.
    – Talmud

  17. #17
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    The mark of the beast is often thought of as some elaborate code identifying each individual it marks. But there is not indication in scripture it will be anything other than a universal symbol like the swastika was under the Nazi regime. It has only to identify the bearer as one who has the mark.

    Revelation 13:11-18 (NASB95)
    11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.
    12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.
    13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.
    14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
    15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
    16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
    17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.


    Ever give a good look at the so-called Star of David? It is a 666 symbol. Six points, six triangles, with a six sided center.

    By the way it predates David, though it was not a symbol of David, but rather the seal of his son Solomon. This seal of Solomon was used by the first king of Israel to lead the nation into idolatry and paganism.

    The symbol was only recently adopted to represent the people of Israel. Jews were branded with this occult symbol by Hitler in the 1930's. And as an act of defiance the Jews adopted it. Similar to the Americans adopting the disparaging by the British during the Revolutionary War "Yanks" or "Yankees."

    The occult symbol goes back to the Sumerian era.





    And were not the symbol for Israel before the 1930's. The seven candle menorah was.


    Last edited by johnd; 02-03-2014 at 12:33 AM.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  18. #18
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Didn't the 666 get revised to 616 recently?

    MacG
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  19. #19
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    .....nope.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  20. #20
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    .....nope.
    Have you seen this:
    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1113...evalued-to-616

    What's your take on it? Should this move to another thread?

    MacG
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  21. #21
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    According to the complete Jewish Bible:

    This is where wisdom is needed; those who understand should count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person, and its number is 666
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  22. #22
    Senior Member alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    This is where wisdom is needed; ......
    I have yet to find an End Times teacher that fulfilled this requirement of the needed "wisdom"...


    All who do Bible Math always end up picking a date, or naming a person that they think the Bible predicts, only to always see their predictions fail...

  23. #23
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I have yet to find an End Times teacher that fulfilled this requirement of the needed "wisdom"...


    All who do Bible Math always end up picking a date, or naming a person that they think the Bible predicts, only to always see their predictions fail...
    Solomon was the wisest man to live, with understanding greater than anyone.

    Revelation 13:18 (KJV)
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


    2 of the 4 scriptures that have 666 in it refer to Solomon... builder of the first temple. The Jews today are looking for a messiah who will build the third (actually fourth) temple and establish peace....


    Jeremiah 6:14 (KJV)
    14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.



    Solomon (shlomo) is derived from the word for peace Shalom.


    Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    That covenant is what we would call the old covenant / old testament and claim to be the promised messiah and claiming Jesus is not the true Messiah.


    Another way of arriving at the beast having something to do with the rebuilt temple is in calculating the dates between the destruction of the first two temples in Hebrew years (666).



    During this time Christians who refuse to take the mark (who are in fact the real Christians) will be hunted down to near extinction.



    That pretty much sums up the criteria of the verse.


    Here is wisdom.

    Let him that hath understanding

    count the number of the beast:

    for it is the number of a man;

    and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  24. #24
    Senior Member asdf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Solomon (shlomo) is derived from the word for peace Shalom.
    Indeed. But for one to tie it to a particular scripture on the basis of the Shlomo/shalom tie is rather tenuous, IMO.

    Another way of arriving at the beast having something to do with the rebuilt temple is in calculating the dates between the destruction of the first two temples in Hebrew years (666).
    Which, of course, you have not established, beyond a bit of bluster on three different calendars, for which you have not provided substantiation.
    God’s seal is truth.
    – Talmud

  25. #25
    Senior Member alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Let me say this again to be very clear...


    All who do "Bible math" fail....

    Oh they think they have the secret to understanding the 666 number, of the 70 weeks verse...but in the end, they FAIL



    Mostly what you find is that the guy doing all the Bible math has a thing against the Jews, or the Catholics, or Obama, or Henry Kissinger and he works the numbers so that end up pointing to the Jews or Catholics as being the beast, or the false Christ predicted by the Bible.

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