Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 50 of 50

Thread: The three Jewish Temples.

  1. #26
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Let me say this again to be very clear...


    All who do "Bible math" fail....

    Oh they think they have the secret to understanding the 666 number, of the 70 weeks verse...but in the end, they FAIL



    Mostly what you find is that the guy doing all the Bible math has a thing against the Jews, or the Catholics, or Obama, or Henry Kissinger and he works the numbers so that end up pointing to the Jews or Catholics as being the beast, or the false Christ predicted by the Bible.
    Again...

    {sigh}

    The Bible math is not a failure. the wisdom is to clue us in on Solomon builder of the first temple destroyed on Tisha b'Av 586 BCE and the second destroyed on Tisha b'Av 70CE on the Hebrew calendar 666 years apart to the day.

    How is that a failure?

    And about setting dates... I have not set one. I am showing how the Bible will in studies about Daniel 12:11-12 but that it will not be clear to humanity until the 70th Week of Daniel is half over when the rebuilt temple sacrifices will be abated.

    Jesus said we are to understand the times and the seasons even if we cannot know the dates.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  2. #27
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Vincent (Starry Starry Night) Lyrics
    Starry starry night, paint your palette blue and grey
    Look out on a summer's day with eyes that know the darkness in my soul
    Shadows on the hills, sketch the trees and the daffodils
    Catch the breeze and the winter chills, in colors on the snowy linen land

    Now I understand what you tried to say to me
    How you suffered for you sanity How you tried to set them free
    They would not listen they did not know how, perhaps they'll listen now

    Starry starry night, flaming flowers that brightly blaze
    Swirling clouds in violet haze reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue
    Colors changing hue, morning fields of amber grain
    Weathered faces lined in pain are soothed beneath the artist's loving hand

    Now I understand what you tried to say to me
    How you suffered for you sanity How you tried to set them free
    They would not listen they did not know how, perhaps they'll listen now

    For they could not love you, but still your love was true
    And when no hope was left in sight, on that starry starry night
    You took your life as lovers often do,
    But I could have told you, Vincent,
    This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you

    Starry, starry night, portraits hung in empty halls
    Frameless heads on nameless walls with eyes that watch the world and can't forget.
    Like the stranger that you've met, the ragged man in ragged clothes
    The silver thorn of bloody rose, lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow

    Now I think I know what you tried to say to me
    How you suffered for you sanity How you tried to set them free
    They would not listen they're not listening still
    Perhaps they never will.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  3. #28
    asdf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    Further down the rabbit hole we go...

    Are you now positing yet a third type of year needed to make your calculations work—a Hebrew year, a 'Gentile' year, and a 'prophetic' year?

    It's a pretty interesting hypothesis, I must say—but I'm still holding out judgment until I see the evidence laid out.
    This is a bump.

  4. #29
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Let me say this again to be very clear...


    All who do "Bible math" fail....

    Oh they think they have the secret to understanding the 666 number, of the 70 weeks verse...but in the end, they FAIL



    Mostly what you find is that the guy doing all the Bible math has a thing against the Jews, or the Catholics, or Obama, or Henry Kissinger and he works the numbers so that end up pointing to the Jews or Catholics as being the beast, or the false Christ predicted by the Bible.
    Again I state that seeking the solution to the conditions set forth in Revelation 13:18 internally (in the Bible itself) is the only way to interpret the verse.

    If we seek 666 the way we sought the Messiah in scripture we'd find all the signs point to a Jewish Temple builder in the last time who will renege on his promise to affirm the Mosaic covenant to the many and in the middle of the 70th Week put an end to the sacrifices there. Then and only then will we even know how far into the 70th Week man has come or when it began. The first two temples were destroyed 666 Hebrew / Prophetic years apart. There's your calculation, the wisdom (Solomon whose 666 talents of gold wage is two of the only four mentions of 666 in scripture).
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  5. #30
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Again...

    {sigh}

    The Bible math is not a failure.
    All people that attempt to do "Bible math" will fail!

    Oh they pat themselves on the back for being able to screw with the numbers to make things work out for stuff in the past...LOL

    Oh they love to say that added up this number to that number,then subtracted the number of hairs on the 2nd knuckle of their left hand, then added the number of licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll and ended up with the date for the start of WW2.

    It means NOTHING!


    You give me any date and i bet i can find ways to add up different verses in the Bible to come up with any date you want to pick.

    So Bible Math of the past is meaningless.

    The Bible Math that i speak of is where people try to add up numbers and get to some type of date in the future.

    The name "Miller" comes to mind.

    This is why i never get mixed up in End Time conversations.
    The reason is, that one thing leads to another, and before you know it you hear someone make the claim that they have 'unlocked" the meaning of the End Times verses, and by doing some math have come up for the date of the end of the world.

    Sooner or later it always happens, and it always ends in FAIL

  6. #31
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    It means NOTHING!

    ...to you. I respect your ability to choose.

    I am quite frustrated with your lack of respect for others to choose to believe what is in the Bible...

    The 360 day year,
    The Jewish calendar dates the two temples were destroyed
    The use of simple math to come up with this biblical clue.

    I mean, any one can say what you said and offer no proof or evidence to the contrary of what I stated. None. You just yammered on about math and failure.

    Yes men have failed with math they misinterpreted.... that is not proof I did.

    Again... 665.666666666667 is puhretty close to the subject at hand would you not agree?
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  7. #32
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post

    Again... 665.666666666667 is puhretty close to the subject at hand would you not agree?
    no its pointless and meaningless...

    You can find ways to come up with any number you want as long as you know in advance what number you seek to end up at.

    There are books connecting the layout of the Pyramids in Egypt and stars in the sky....or with different craters on the moon....or with , etc, etc, etc...

    The trick is that as long as you know the outcome design (or the final number you seek to end up with) you can look around and find things to add up or point to that can get you the final result you are seeking to prove.

    If you want to prove that the Bible predicts the day the Beatles came out with their WHITE album, Im sure that you can add up some verses, or some statements about this or that made in the Bible, subtract the number of times something else appears, and end up with the final date you were seeking from the start..

    All you have to know a head of time is what day or number you want to end up at (1968) and you will know when you are done doing the Bible math....LOL
    So you keep dreaming up ways to do Bible Math until you get to the magic number you knew in advance as being 1968, and and when your Bible Math gets you to that magic number you STOP!.....

    But lets say you are sincere.

    Lets say that you want to end up with some real "proof" that your Bible math system is correct.

    Lets also say you seek to make a good-faith effort to show you are correct.

    In that case,if you really want to know if your own Bible Math is truly something correctly drawn from the bible?...then try to predict something you dont know the final date for!

    Thats how you put your own Bible Math to the test!

    Predict something in the as-yet unknown future and then you have proved your system.
    You want proof, and there's the way to get it.

    Now, many guys do this too as we have seen over the years.
    Lots of guys add up all kinds of numbers in the bible to come up with the date for the return of Christ, or the date of the Anti-Christ, etc.

    What we always see is the same result of doing such future bible math.
    They all FAIL.

    They always predict a date in the near-future based on their 100% guaranteed Bible Math system, and in the end their predicted date will always Fail.
    They always fail,

    and they always end up with egg on their faces.

    Some learn their lessons (Chuck Smith).

    But a lot of other guys just look at the failure and rather than learn the lesson from it, they turn around and believe that the "Bible Math concept" was correct, but the numbers used were the only error.

    Some guys believe that they have discovered the true way to add up the correct numbers to come up with the correct date...

    Thus, the next Harold Camping is always getting warmed up in the Bible Math on-deck circle.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-03-2012 at 02:40 AM.

  8. #33
    asdf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Again... 665.666666666667 is puhretty close to the subject at hand would you not agree?
    Not even slightly—for all the reasons alanmolstad articulated, as well as your failure to even bother to try to substantiate your calculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    Further down the rabbit hole we go...

    Are you now positing yet a third type of year needed to make your calculations work—a Hebrew year, a 'Gentile' year, and a 'prophetic' year?

    It's a pretty interesting hypothesis, I must say—but I'm still holding out judgment until I see the evidence laid out.

  9. #34
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Predict something in the as-yet unknown future and then you have proved your system.


    You want proof, and there's the way to get it.

    .....
    What I am talking about in the above quote is that there is a very real way to put your numbering systems to the test.
    It is a way that has worked over and over for a long-long time.

    What we do is take whatever numbering system you are promoting, be it a way to add up numbers that appear in the Bible, or add up Text locations, or use a dart board and a blind dart-tossing monkey, and see if under that system you can predict a single future date?

    My point is that anyone can take a known date in history and find ways to end up at that date by doing Bible math.

    As long as you know the answer at the start you can find many easy means to arrive at that answer.

    But finding a result where you dont already know the answer?....Ahh that's different!


    This is why we know that many religious prophets of the past are now believed to be "False Prophets", because their predictions did not come to p***.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses have a False Prophet in their founder based on the past that things he predicted did not come to p***.

    The Mormons too.

    Even Newton!

    In fact, any person that teaches their Bible Math can come up with a date for a future events needs to be put to the test like this so that we all can see if they know what they are talking about, or are just pulling dates out of their backside?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-04-2012 at 05:16 AM.

  10. #35
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    365.25 days = 1 year Gentile
    360 days = 1 year Jewish

    365.25 X 656 ÷ 360 = 665.666666 (solved as precisely 666 because the dates are exact).

    This is one of the reasons I never do Bible Math....the simple fact is that you can work the numbers in such a manner as to end up with any date you want....

  11. #36
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    You use circular reasoning and cynicism to validate your argument. Again, believe what you jolly well want to. But the fact remains that the ancient Hebrew calendar was based on the lunar cycle and the prophecies of the 70 Weeks of Daniel and this dating when the two temples were destroyed are based on 360 day years. The time between Tisha b'Av 586 BCE and Tisha b'Av 70 CE was 656 Solar years. 656 X 365.25 = 239604 days. Divide that number of days by the 360 day year Hebrew (prophetic) calendar year and you get the number 665.5666666666666.

    Don't believe it, for all I care.

    Defy your own calculator or anything else you wish.

    But it doesn't change the facts that are facts.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  12. #37
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    What people do is that they start with the final answer they want to come to....in this case it's 666 or whatever...but as 666 is a well known fancy number, so that is what a lot of guys start with.

    Once you know the final answer you want to end up at, the rest is easy....

    All you have to do then is start to add up the numbers, and using a 'base 10" way of thinking, (or whatever base will get you the answer 666), just keep doing math until the sum total gets you to the answer you knew from the start...

    and then?...

    and then stop doing any more math...


    QUESTION:
    What would be a way to prove you actually are doing correct Bible math?

    ANSWER:
    That's easy, come up with an answer you don't know from the start.
    predict a date that comes true and you have proved your math is correct.

    But attempting to prove that you know how to do Bible math by simply adding numbers until you get to a final answer you knew from the start just is silly....proves nothing...and tends to be a self-delusion

  13. #38
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Now, really all this is harmless untill a guy starts to think that they have "unlocked" the key to understanding the bible's numbers.
    At that point it can start to become a little too tempting to think that not only can you find the correct numbers to show how dates in the past had to happen when they did, but based on this same type of Bible Math you can also make predictions about future events.

    It can happen to even a very serious Bible student that has no intention of being a person that gets known for predictions, but what happens is that they become so sure that they know how the Bible is arriving at it's dates that the same system leads them down the road to making future predictions.

    Their Bible Math is not just becoming an interesting 'guess" to them, but to them it soon becomes seen as "FACT"... they look at the conclusions they come to about their system of adding up numbers and say "You cant argue with it" and that there is - "No way around it" ...

    The Jehovah's Witnesses were started out by a guy who worked the Bible's numbers into predicting an upcoming date where Christ would return.

    The Mormons also have a history where their founder made predictions.

    But it's not only non-Christians that are known for getting swept up in the idea that their success at doing Bible Math to support the dates things happened in the past can be turned into a way to seek the dates for future events , for Christians also fall into this trap.

    Take the case of respected Christian radio preacher Chuck Smith.
    I was a daily listener to Chuck Smith on the radio when working out of town alone and on the road.
    He had a very easy to listen to voice, and his teachings were always very much bible-backed.

    Then one day Im digging in the backyard of my house listening to Chuck on the radio when he is talking about how the date for this or that past event ( think it was the date of the birth of Christ) was based on this or that way of adding up the numbers, and then he went and started to talk about the return of Christ in 4 years.

    I was stunned....

    "Did he just say what I think he did?" I asked myself....

    Chuck Smith went on to say in that show that, based on the Bible's numbers that predicted the correct date for the birth of christ that these same means of adding numbers also can be seen to just as correctly predict that Christ had to return in 4 years.

    And if Christ did not return then then Chuck said that he did not see how any of the Bible's numbers could be used in any future ways to arrive at any conclusions.....

    for the record that was about 20+ years ago and Christ did not return as Chuck's math predicted.


    others swept up in their own clever Bible math are:

    Hippolytus of Rome, Sextus Julius Afric****, Irenaeus all predicted Jesus would return in the year 500. One prediction was based on the dimensions of Noah's ark.

    Gregory of Tours Calculated the End occurring between 799 and 806.

    Pope Innocent III predicted that the world would end 666 years after the rise of Islam.

    Martin Luther predicted the end of the world would occur no later than 1600.

    Christopher Columbus claimed that the world was created in 5343 BCE, and would last 7000 years. ***uming no year zero, that means the end would come in 1658.

    John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, wrote that Revelation 12:14 referred to the years 1058–1836, "when Christ should come".

    The Adventists , After Christ did not return on March 21, 1844, the Millerites then revised William Miller's prediction to October 22, 1844, claiming to have miscalculated Scripture. The realization that the predictions were incorrect resulted in the Great Disappointment.

    Herbert W. Armstrong, the founder of the Worldwide Church of God told members of his church that the Rapture was to take place in 1936, and that only they would saved. After the prophecy failed, he changed the date three more times.

    and....

    Charles Manson used Bible Math in his predicted that an apocalyptic race war would occur in 1969 and ordered the Tate-*****nca murders in an attempt to bring it about.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 02-24-2013 at 09:47 AM.

  14. #39
    gabby
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnd View Post
    Don't let the ***le mislead you. This is not about true Messianic Prophecy versus false prophecies about the Messiah. This is about two types of prophecy:

    • The True Messiah
    • The False Messiah

    There aren't as many prophecies about the ultimate false messiah as there are about the true Messiah, Jesus. But there are many prophecies about the false messiah. And as the prophecies about the true Messiah are authenticators and identifiers of him, so are the prophecies about the false messiah about him.

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-11
    1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
    2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
    3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
    4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
    6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
    7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
    8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
    9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
    10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

    John 17:12
    12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

    Acts 1:17-25
    17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
    18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
    19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
    20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’
    21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
    23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
    25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

    Revelation 20:1-3
    1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
    3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

    Revelation 20:7-10
    7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
    8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
    9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
    10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    Remember Satan personally entered (possessed) Judas:

    Luke 22:3
    3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

    John 13:26-27
    26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
    27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

    It was go for broke defeat the Son of God moment ensuring his defeat on the cross, so the devil pulled out all the plugs to personally enter a human being (which apparently is what imprisons fallen angels Jude 6 to the fate of that human host)


    Isaiah 14
    7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet; They break forth into singing.
    8 Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you, And the cedars of Lebanon, Saying, ‘Since you were cut down, No woodsman has come up against us.’
    9 “Hell from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.
    10 They all shall speak and say to you: ‘Have you also become as weak as we? Have you become like us?
    11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.’
    12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
    13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’
    15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
    16 “Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
    17 Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
    18 “All the kings of the nations, All of them, sleep in glory, Everyone in his own house;
    19 But you are cast out of your grave Like an abominable branch, Like the garment of those who are slain, Thrust through with a sword, Who go down to the stones of the pit, Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
    20 You will not be joined with them in burial, Because you have destroyed your land And slain your people. The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
    Who's do say that "the temple of God" spoken of in 2nd Thess. 2 is not a reference to the Church?

  15. #40
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    The failed math comes from adding to or taking away from scriptures.

    The Bible warns in all three major divisions (Law, Prophets, Writings) not to do so... but outside the Bible people go especially with 666.

    The Bible also says test with scripture all things.

    Do a search yourself in the Bible for 666.

    And as far as Jew bashing or Catholic bashing I have only ever stated the truth.

    Tell me, who else but a Jew would the Jewish people follow as the messiah?
    John 5:39-40 (NIV)
    39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
    40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.


    John 5:43 (NIV)
    43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
    "if" ean in the Greek is better translated "though". The scripture prophesied the true Messiah would come in the name of his father (which Jesus did). Though he comes in his own name him (the false messiah) they (the Jews) would accept.

    Tell me why would Jesus warn of a time of flight that one would even consider sabbath law?


    Matthew 24:20 (NIV)
    20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.


    Sabbath law has never taken precedent over fight or flight in all Jewish history. Consider the campaign at Jericho. 7 days they marched, on the sabbath day they marched 7 times the wall fell and the battle ensued,

    So why would Jesus even say such a thing?

    Winter is obvious enough (just ask those stranded in airports and shelters in the recent cold storms). But the sabbath?

    It is because the things that Jesus warns believers about the Jews who reject him but accept the false messiah will have no problem with that false messiah ascending to the temple claiming to be God.

    And they will enforce sabbath law in the Holy Land.

    So, who but a Jew will the Jewish people accept ascending to their venerated temple and even remotely consider the claim to be God incarnate? A Pope? A Protestant? A Muslim? Justin Bieber? Who???

    I await your response oh naysayer with no scriptural backing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by johnd; 02-03-2014 at 12:34 AM.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  16. #41
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gabby View Post
    Who's to say that "the temple of God" spoken of in 2nd Thess. 2 is not a reference to the Church?
    God.

    If it is truly referring to the Temple of God meaning the Church mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:16, then God has a real problem sharing his temple with the devil incarnate.

    Me thinks thou doth bamboozle thyself with preterist doctrine.

    You are so convinced by preterism that the Jewish temple will never be rebuilt that every reference to a temple must be symbolic.

    Proof that is what the Apostle Paul is referring to then becomes your problem. And as I said, God does not share his Church temple with anyone.

    1 John 4:4 (NIV)
    4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

    Except when the devil is visiting...

    Come on!
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  17. #42
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    What people do is that they start with the final answer they want to come to....in this case it's 666 or whatever...but as 666 is a well known fancy number, so that is what a lot of guys start with.

    Once you know the final answer you want to end up at, the rest is easy....

    All you have to do then is start to add up the numbers, and using a 'base 10" way of thinking, (or whatever base will get you the answer 666), just keep doing math until the sum total gets you to the answer you knew from the start...

    and then?...

    and then stop doing any more math...


    QUESTION:
    What would be a way to prove you actually are doing correct Bible math?

    ANSWER:
    That's easy, come up with an answer you don't know from the start.
    predict a date that comes true and you have proved your math is correct.

    But attempting to prove that you know how to do Bible math by simply adding numbers until you get to a final answer you knew from the start just is silly....proves nothing...and tends to be a self-delusion
    I am rusty on this one but Chuck Missler used the 2520 year differences (to the day as I recall) for the waves of occupation for the Jews in the Old Testament (by Nebuchadnezzar) and the date the Jewish nation was reestablished and the date that temple mount was captured by Moshe Dayan in 1967...

    Seems that alone would put a plug in your argument.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  18. #43
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    Here's a date setting the Bible way:

    Daniel 12:11-12 (NIV)
    11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
    12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

    1290 days from the end of time the temple sacrifice will be abated. Meaning there will be Jewish temple sacrifices up to 1290 days from the end. Meaning there will be a Jewish temple yet to be built in the future.

    The rapture will happen 1335 days into the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27).


    Mark 13:32 (NIV)
    32 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    Still true.

    No one will know when the 70th Week of Daniel began until the day the temple sacrifices are abated (day 1230). And the Church will be so far in hiding to survive the news about the beast ascending to the temple to desecrate it will not reach them with any certainty of dates... but we are all charged to know the seasons of the nearness of these things aren't we!

    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  19. #44
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    predict of future unknown?....
    never happens....

  20. #45
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brave New World
    Posts
    603

    Default

    yuh huh...
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  21. #46
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    predict of future unknown?....
    never happens....
    see what im talking about is that all the Christian end times teachers that think that have "unlocked" the secret Bible math so that they can know a date, never are proved correct later.

    At best all that can happen is like what the 7th day Adventists did, where a predicted date failed to appear, and then rather than admitting their math was all wrong, they came out with a new way to have the failed date look like it was a true date, "Just invisible" to human eyes.

    "God did return, but invisibly"
    or...
    "God moved from one apartment in heaven to another"

    But I just consider all that kind of stuff to be a bit silly...

    The other thing that I see happen when people pick a date in the future and that day comes , is that the false Prophet will then find anything that might have happened on or near the date, and say that "that event" is what was predicted...

    So in other words, it would be to predict that the next Monday something important in God's time table would happen, and then on the next Tuesday they would open up the newspaper and search for any story in the news of the day before that they can then point to and say "There it happened just as I predicted!"


    So that is the type of stuff i see when i study the many false Prophets that have risen up and made predictions based on their own private bible math.



    As I have already listed in a post on this topic, the history of the world is filled with the names of people and churches that fell in love with the idea that there was a secret way to add up numbers to make a prediction for the day of the lord's return.

    And everyone who does their own Bible math and makes a prediction, is later proven to be a false prophet.

    This is the start of a new year as i write this, and Im sure before too long we may yet again hear that some book in the bookstore has a new date for the return...
    There is always a new writer that is convinced that the world needs to hear his version of the "88 Reasons Why Christ Will Return In 1988"

    and then later, they come out with the next version ,,,,,and such books do tend to sell.

    There seems to be this market for this type of stuff....and you would think that by now, after so many people have proven so clearly that you simply cant rely on predictions made with bible math that people would be wise to this foolishness......but i see that is not true...
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 02-03-2014 at 02:01 AM.

  22. #47
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Once again, all who try to do Bible math end up FAIL......

    oh they love to point out to us how other people were able to use the Bible's numbers to come up with a date in the past, and then they try to use this as a justification for their own use of Bible math to come up with their own set of results...
    "

    But they all fail!

    They all fail....
    The most they can do is when they are shown to be wrong to switch things around like the 7th Day'ers did so as to put a better "spin" on their false dates.

    But predict a date in the future?....not a chance.

  23. #48
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Doing Bible Math = the open door to Fail......

  24. #49
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    while talking about the topic of Jewish temples....


    I have been looking and researching the floor plan of the common artwork found in our study bibles about what the Jewish temple area looked like at the time of Christ.

    I have come to the conclusion that most all the artwork that show how buildings were setting, and their location are in error.

    The main trouble I have is the common way the Roman barracks are shoved up into one little corner of the temple mount.

    I dont believe that is correct at all.

    I believe that the Roman guard and all the Roman officials and all the troops would have required a monster size area, that would be far, far greater than the area of the temple.

    This means that almost everything I see displayed about where the temple was and how it was sitting are likely in error.

  25. #50
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    so to sum up my views on the whole "Bible Math" issue.


    I believe that every single person that has ever attempted to use the text of the Bible to add up numbers to arrive at a date for the return of Christ or the ending of the world are in error.

    They all fail.

    The people that try to defend the use of Bible Math always try to point to how a date was predicted in the past, and then slide their own date setting underneath that so that it looks like their own ways to do Bible math are just as true.

    But they all fail.
    They fail because they cant actually do Bible math.

    What they are doing is allowing their imagination to rule their ability to reason correctly.

    They want to believe they have "unlocked" a way to do Bible math so much that they just lose all logic.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •