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  1. #1
    James Banta
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    Default Quick question

    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? IHS jim

    Come on I need an answer.. I promise not to comment of your answers.. I just want to get some idea of what friends and "enemies" think on this subject.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 05-11-2014 at 10:37 AM.

  2. #2
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? IHS jim
    How can any person accept JS as a prophet but ignore his messages? If JS was chosen by God to restore the church, then all people should believe what JS said. Now, I am speaking of the LDS since JS was their founder and to be considered a TBM and have a temple recommend, you must agree that you accept JS. How odd that the LDS are not asked if they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. We now know who the LDS really follow, which makes Mormonism another gospel and another cult.

  3. #3
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post

    How can any person accept JS as a prophet but ignore his messages? If JS was chosen by God to restore the church, then all people should believe what JS said. Now, I am speaking of the LDS since JS was their founder and to be considered a TBM and have a temple recommend, you must agree that you accept JS. How odd that the LDS are not asked if they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. We now know who the LDS really follow, which makes Mormonism another gospel and another cult.
    That is it an answer from NE? How about Julie, or Billy or anyone? IHS jim

  4. #4
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? IHS jim

    Come on I need an answer.. I promise not to comment of your answers.. I just want to get some idea of what friends and "enemies" think on this subject.. IHS jim
    As an ex-Mormon, I would say that one can believe that Joseph is a prophet and still not believe "all" of his message. I was taught that not everything from the mouth of a prophet is from God. Sometimes they speak their own opinions and it is not binding for the "whole church". It is simply their opinion.

  5. #5
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    As an ex-Mormon, I would say that one can believe that Joseph is a prophet and still not believe "all" of his message. I was taught that not everything from the mouth of a prophet is from God. Sometimes they speak their own opinions and it is not binding for the "whole church". It is simply their opinion.
    The first thing a mormon should do is not be a mormon and the second thing a mormon should do is, Oops there is no second thing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? IHS jim

    Come on I need an answer.. I promise not to comment of your answers.. I just want to get some idea of what friends and "enemies" think on this subject.. IHS jim
    I once spoke to a Reorganized Mormon about that very issue - she agreed that some in her group believe that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet - they totally reject D&C 132 for instance. Smith said so many crazy things, that I think they generally have the standard cop out ready: "That's not part of the standard works."
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  7. #7
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages?
    Jim I understand the heart of your question and I think I know what you are getting at but I would have worded it slightly different as I will explain below.

    If Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God would his teachings/revelations be true? Yes.

    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? Yes.

    Mormons can believe whatever they want and a lot of lds believe that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were prophets of God yet they don't believe many of the things that these guys taught--particularly Brigham Young's messages (Adam God, Blood Atonement. . .). On the one hand they claim that these guys speak for God yet on the other hand they don't believe many of the things that these guys say. They try and justify this conflict by telling us that: 1. "He was speaking as a man". 2. "It is not official lds doctrine" etc. But this is a conflict in their beliefs and it should be a red flag for them.

  8. #8
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    As an ex-Mormon, I would say that one can believe that Joseph is a prophet and still not believe "all" of his message. I was taught that not everything from the mouth of a prophet is from God. Sometimes they speak their own opinions and it is not binding for the "whole church". It is simply their opinion.
    Again here you are posting to me... I knew you wouldn't keep your promises!!!! Because of that your opinion is worthless on this thread.. You could remove it.. Will you? That would be an act of keeping your will I don't see you doing that..

  9. #9
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Jim I understand the heart of your question and I think I know what you are getting at but I would have worded it slightly different as I will explain below.

    If Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God would his teachings/revelations be true? Yes.

    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? Yes.

    Mormons can believe whatever they want and a lot of lds believe that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were prophets of God yet they don't believe many of the things that these guys taught--particularly Brigham Young's messages (Adam God, Blood Atonement. . .). On the one hand they claim that these guys speak for God yet on the other hand they don't believe many of the things that these guys say. They try and justify this conflict by telling us that: 1. "He was speaking as a man". 2. "It is not official lds doctrine" etc. But this is a conflict in their beliefs and it should be a red flag for them.
    I promised not to leave comments so all I will say is thanks for the input.. IHS jim

  10. #10
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Again here you are posting to me... I knew you wouldn't keep your promises!!!! Because of that your opinion is worthless on this thread.. You could remove it.. Will you? That would be an act of keeping your will I don't see you doing that..
    Where in the world did I ever say I wouldn't post or comment on any thread you made? I never said that, James. I said, I would not make personal comments about you on the board. Again, with your misunderstandings. Also, you are the one who is breaking a promise by not taking personal problems to email first. Good grief.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    As an ex-Mormon, I would say that one can believe that Joseph is a prophet and still not believe "all" of his message. I was taught that not everything from the mouth of a prophet is from God. Sometimes they speak their own opinions and it is not binding for the "whole church". It is simply their opinion.
    Do you still believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God? Especially in light of his teaching that the Holy Trinity is a Three-headed Monster?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Where in the world did I ever say I wouldn't post or comment on any thread you made? I never said that, James. I said, I would not make personal comments about you on the board. Again, with your misunderstandings. Also, you are the one who is breaking a promise by not taking personal problems to email first. Good grief.
    You know what you do Libby - you very subtly defend Mormonism. You need to repent of your ***ociation with Mormonism (and the other cult you were part of), and ask the Lord to cleanse you in His Precious Blood. Unless you do, you will always have the lingering after effects of cultic involvement. You cannot holey give your life to serving Christ until you've renounced (and should do publicly by the way) the doctrines of demons.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  13. #13
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Do you still believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God? Especially in light of his teaching that the Holy Trinity is a Three-headed Monster?
    I've made it very clear (on another thread) that I do not believe JS was a prophet.

  14. #14
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    You know what you do Libby - you very subtly defend Mormonism. You need to repent of your ***ociation with Mormonism (and the other cult you were part of), and ask the Lord to cleanse you in His Precious Blood. Unless you do, you will always have the lingering after effects of cultic involvement. You cannot holey give your life to serving Christ until you've renounced (and should do publicly by the way) the doctrines of demons.
    Telling the truth about what was taught in the church is not "defending", Apologette. James asked a simple question and asked that "anyone" respond. I gave him my answer. It doesn't mean I believe JS was actually a prophet. I don't and haven't for a very long time.

  15. #15
    Libby
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    So, CAN someone believe that JS was a prophet and, yet, not believe everything he taught? Yes, absolutely, in part, because of what is taught about "every word out of a prophet's mouth".

    That's an honest answer to James' question. I also thought Billy gave a very good response.

  16. #16
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    So, CAN someone believe that JS was a prophet and, yet, not believe everything he taught? Yes, absolutely, in part, because of what is taught about "every word out of a prophet's mouth".

    That's an honest answer to James' question. I also thought Billy gave a very good response.
    I told you should have quit while you were ahead. lol

  17. #17
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I told you should have quit while you were ahead. lol
    No kidding.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Telling the truth about what was taught in the church is not "defending", Apologette. James asked a simple question and asked that "anyone" respond. I gave him my answer. It doesn't mean I believe JS was actually a prophet. I don't and haven't for a very long time.
    Have you ever repented of Mormonism?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    So, CAN someone believe that JS was a prophet and, yet, not believe everything he taught? Yes, absolutely, in part, because of what is taught about "every word out of a prophet's mouth".

    That's an honest answer to James' question. I also thought Billy gave a very good response.
    The only way someone could believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, would be if they believed he was a FALSE PROPHET. Otherwise if they believe Smith is a true prophet, they are deceived.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  20. #20
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Can a person believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and not believe his messages? IHS jim

    Come on I need an answer.. I promise not to comment of your answers.. I just want to get some idea of what friends and "enemies" think on this subject.. IHS jim
    Yes some things.

  21. #21
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pheonix View Post
    Yes some things.
    If you believe Joseph was a true prophet of God wouldn't it be reasonable to believe what he teaches?

    What parts of Joseph's message are mandatory to believe and which parts are optional in your opinion?

  22. #22
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Have you ever repented of Mormonism?
    How does one repent. She left the Church...is their so set prayer that must be said. Besides she is not a Calvinist, so she cannot repent and join beliefs with that devil and murderer Calvin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pheonix View Post
    How does one repent. She left the Church...is their so set prayer that must be said. Besides she is not a Calvinist, so she cannot repent and join beliefs with that devil and murderer Calvin.
    Who are we talking about here? And by the way, I take exception to your evil words about John Calvin - have you ever called Joe Smith a "devil and and sexual pervert," for such he was? Your curses upon Christians will rebound upon you, and I would advise you to remember that.
    Last edited by Apologette; 05-29-2014 at 07:42 AM.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  24. #24
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pheonix View Post
    How does one repent. She left the Church...is their so set prayer that must be said. Besides she is not a Calvinist, so she cannot repent and join beliefs with that devil and murderer Calvin.
    You call Calvin a murderer and devil and turn a blind eye to your love of your life Joseph Smith jr.? I tell you that is pitiful!
    Last edited by RealFakeHair; 05-29-2014 at 08:33 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    You call Calvin a murderer and devil and turn a blind eye to your love of your life Joseph Smith jr.? I tell you that is pitiful!
    Was there a more evil religious charlatan on this continent than Joseph Smith? Millions who followed his evil ways now find themselves cut off from eternal life.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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