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Thread: Christian?

  1. #1
    Administrator Kevin's Avatar
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    Default Christian?

    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin

  2. #2
    Trinity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    What is a good christian? And what is a good FreeMason?

    The questions should be: What are the rapport between christianity with secrecy or elitism? Can we say that their comprehension of the deity opposes the definition of the orthodoxy or the doctrine of the Church?

    The denomination with the longest history of objection to Freemasonry is the Catholic Church. The objections raised by the Catholic Church are based on the allegation that Masonry teaches a naturalistic deistic religion which is in conflict with Church doctrine. A number of Papal pronouncements have been issued against Freemasonry. The first was Pope Clement XII's In Eminenti, 28 April 1738; the most recent was Pope Leo XIII's Ab Apostolici, 15 October 1890. The 1917 Code of Canon Law explicitly declared that joining Freemasonry entailed automatic excommunication. The 1917 Code of Canon Law also forbade books friendly to Freemasonry.

    In 1983, the Church issued a new Code of Canon Law. Unlike its predecessor, it did not explicitly name Masonic orders among the secret societies it condemns. It states in part: "A person who joins an ***ociation which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an ***ociation is to be punished with an interdict." This omission caused both Catholics and Freemasons to believe that the ban on Catholics becoming Freemasons may have been lifted, especially after the perceived liberalisation of Vatican II. However, the matter was clarified when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI), as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued Quaesitum est, which states: "...the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic ***ociation remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic ***ociations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion." Thus, from a Catholic perspective, there is still a ban on Catholics joining Masonic Lodges. For its part, Freemasonry has never objected to Catholics joining their fraternity. Those Grand Lodges in amity with UGLE deny the Church's claims and state that they explicitly adhere to the principle that "Freemasonry is not a religion, nor a subs***ute for religion."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemas...p_and_religion

    Trinity

  3. #3
    bhuvana-mohan dasa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    i believe it is possible- and yet unlikely ,due to the large array of lodge-related duties that necessitate choices,causing chiefly time-related conlicts between one's personal cultivation of spiritual culture vs. duties pertaining to the lodge.

    ys,
    bmd.
    PM
    32' A.A.S.R., (inactive in Masonry nearly 30 years)

  4. #4
    exegete.writ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhuvana-mohan dasa View Post
    i believe it is possible- and yet unlikely ,due to the large array of lodge-related duties that necessitate choices,causing chiefly time-related conlicts between one's personal cultivation of spiritual culture vs. duties pertaining to the lodge.

    ys,
    bmd.
    PM
    32' A.A.S.R., (inactive in Masonry nearly 30 years)
    How? Please explain.

  5. #5
    bhuvana-mohan dasa
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    Quote Originally Posted by exegete.writ View Post
    How? Please explain.
    The required memorization of esoteric ritualistic "work", attending lodge meetings several times during the month, preparing/participating in special programs lodges are inclined to hold (e.g., periodic visitation of Grand Lodge officers), Masonic funerals, planning/preparation of meals/snacks accompanying monthly meetings, etc., all tend to draw one's time and attention away from fulfilling family responsibilities. Additionally, there is the significant expense of lodge membership, which puts a further burden on the family budget.

    ys,
    bmd.

  6. #6
    seebok
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    Default How 'bout that

    Just checking to see if you wore your Phillies cap today?

    best

    p.

  7. #7
    exegete.writ
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    So I understand you to mean Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible?

  8. #8
    bhuvana-mohan dasa
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    Quote Originally Posted by exegete.writ View Post
    So I understand you to mean Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible?
    Compatible (but mildly antagonistic). i suspect some aspects of the ritual to be reminiscent of roots in eighteenth century Deism, but this was hardly a problem until so identified by nineteenth century evangelicalism.

    ys,
    bmd.
    Last edited by bhuvana-mohan dasa; 10-31-2008 at 06:00 PM.

  9. #9
    bhuvana-mohan dasa
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebok View Post
    Just checking to see if you wore your Phillies cap today?

    best

    p.
    No, actually i wore my Tilly Hat. (Trinity can fill you in on Tilly Hats- they're a Canadian kind of thing.......the only hat in the world to come with an "Owners' Manual" ).

    ys,
    bmd.

  10. #10
    seebok
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhuvana-mohan dasa View Post
    No, actually i wore my Tilly Hat. (Trinity can fill you in on Tilly Hats- they're a Canadian kind of thing.......the only hat in the world to come with an "Owners' Manual" ).

    ys,
    bmd.
    I got mine last year in Glaciers'. Hemp.

    s.

  11. #11
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    One of the nicest men I ever met or probably ever will meet was my great uncle on my mother's mother's side. A Scottish Rite Mason who proudly displayed his necklace whenever he went to any function of import or dressy affair.

    He was a good man. A family man. But just a man. And his regard towards the cross and God and religion (from what I gather) is that it was just another club or fraternity or lodge to belong to. Sadly.

    My answer to the OP is no. Ignorant Christians who wander into the Lodge at the lower levels (where the deep doo doo beliefs are generally not known).

    The same is true about the order of the Eastern Star (women of the lodge).

    But, no, any knowing member of the Lodge that swears ultimate allegiance to Yabulon (unholy convoluted trinity consisting of YHVH, Baal, and Osiris) cannot at the same time be a Christian.

    In my Uncle Earl's case, it was because he didn't believe in anything... much less the Lord or the afterlife. He was (in his mind) just as much a member of the Presbyterian Church as he was the Lodge.
    Last edited by johnd; 11-10-2008 at 02:57 PM.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  12. #12
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  13. #13
    Columcille
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    Default No, God must be praised and not human organizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    I am not sure who it was here or even if it was here... but the boy scouts and the Knights of Columbus. These are also fraternities that have some secrecy to it, but I think it has been pointed out that these fraternities are uniquely different to the Freemasonry. 1) Firstly, there is oversite and accountability. 2) Secondly, the goals are clearly manifest. For the Boy Scout organization, parents make decisions whether or not the Boy Scouts is good for their boys. I do not think there are any major religious overtones in the Boy Scouts. Parents who are of any religious background can approve of the organization because it has a secular goal and not a religious society. For the Knights of Columbus, it is an individual who decides but requires the members to be Catholic. The oversight is by priestly authority. So they cannot be teaching things against the Church, which the Church's authority maintains. Their publications demonstrate their goals of maintaining Catholic orthodoxy. And it is clear that the fraternity is clearly Catholic and not some quasi-universalism or gnostic belief system.

    So if Freemasonry was a secular organization like the boy scouts, having a secular goal of humanitarianism... it would still be a bad thing for Christians to join. The problem is that humanism offers a different gospel. It is an ideal that is Godless and relys on Mankind as the ultimate source of eliminating bad things in the world. Do they affect good things, of course they do. But who is getting the credit for their good will and good deeds? God is not, unless they are really teaching some religious overtones in their ceremonies... then it is not the same God of Christianity. Either way, Christians should be enacting good will and good deeds apart from these types of organizations so that God receives the praise as Matthew 5.16 tells us "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."

  14. #14
    jade84116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    Our nation's founders were Freemasons! What're the implications of such?

  15. #15
    PostTribber
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    Default 'no other ins***ution, but this!'

    "And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou He that should come? or look we for another?" (Luke 7:19)

    "Then said Jesus unto His disciples, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." (Matthew 16:24)

    "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." (Colossians 2:8-10)

  16. #16
    AllyManderson
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    I would say you can't be a good Christian and a good Mason. But you can make a good Christian and worst ever mason.

    Many of my fellow Church of Scotland flock are members of the Scottish Rite - but they are in the Lodge solely to get a shot of the snooker table and so on.

    I would say you cannot believe in what the Church and Lodge teach. But I do not object to any Christian joining the Lodge, I would never say they are not Christian - But that they are of weak faith if they think the Lodge of all places can strengthen them.

  17. #17
    SarahC
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllyManderson View Post
    I would say you cannot believe in what the Church and Lodge teach. But I do not object to any Christian joining the Lodge, I would never say they are not Christian - But that they are of weak faith if they think the Lodge of all places can strengthen them.
    I agree, although if a fellow Christian friend asked my pov I would advise them not to join. I personally do not believe it is compatible with Christianity if this information is correct...

    Masons believe there is a universal spirit which is identified as Great Architect who has a secret name called Jahbulon.

    It may surprise you that this name is a composite of three God Yahweh of the Hebrews, Baal God of the Canaanites, and Osiris God of the Egyptian.
    So here the God of the Bible is equated to the other pagan Gods.
    They have a creed e.g. They believe in the immortality of the soul, say prayers to deity and swear secrecy in the name of the God Jahbulon.

    Freemason do worship a God They erect lodge building to worship and honor Great Architect and have an alter where they kneel and worship. The Bible is placed on the altar.
    The unique thing about Freemason it seem to be offering its members christians or none christians alike some of the same things Jesus has already offered individuals who repent of their sins and accepts him as savior.

    Repentance and baptism makes one a child of God. Jesus is seen as the light that takes one out of spiritual darkness. Man is offered life after death; salvation is received through Jesus, not by works.

    Mason offers all these without the need of Jesus . To the mason Jesus is just a man.
    Doesn't it's adding in a pagan god kinds go directly against the 10 Commandments? Isn't Jesus the very foundation of Christianity? How can something that sees Jesus as just a man, not the resurrected Savior be compatible with Christianity in any way? This isn't just "stuff added in" these change the very foundations of Christianity.

    (link for quotes)
    Last edited by SarahC; 05-22-2010 at 04:50 PM.

  18. #18
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    I personally don't understand how.. These people have rehung the veil after God ripped it down.. That is to hold that there are things we can do as men whereby we can gain entrance into God's presence.. Totally opposite from Biblical Christianity to the point that you can't be one and the other at the same time.. IHS jim

  19. #19
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    Default Curious doctrines

    Masons' source of illumination is the Kabbalah. Albert Pike, reformer of the Scottish Rite, in "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" in 1871
    (repub. in 1966 by House of the Temple, Masons' U.S. Headquarters in Washington, D.C.),
    wrote,
    ``The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most i_g_n_o_r_a_n_t of the true meaning of that which they teach (p. 105) *.

    ``All truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabalah and return to it: everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the illuminati, Jacob Boehme, Swedenborg, Saint-Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah; all the Masonic ***ociations owe to it its Secrets and its Symbols.
    _ _ ``The Kabalah alone consecrates the alliance of the Universal Reason and the Divine Word; ... it [i.e, Kabalah] alone reconciles Reason with Faith, Power with Liberty, Science with Mystery; it has the keys of the Present, the Past and the Future" (p. 744).

    ``The Bible, with all the allegories it contains, expresses, in an incomplete and veiled manner only, the religious science of the Hebrews. The doctrine of Moses and the Prophets, identical at bottom with that of the ancient Egyptians, also had its outward meaning and its veils" (p. 744).
    ``... Thus was a second Bible born, unknown to, or rather uncomprehended by, the Christians; a collection they say, of monstrous absurdities; a monument, the adept says, wherein is everything that the genius of philosophy and that of religion have ever formed or imagined of the sublime; a treasure surrounded by thorns; a diamond concealed in a
    rough dark stone" (pp. 744 - '5).

    Prohibited prayers:
    ``To offer prayer in the name of Christ, is contrary to the universality of Masonry" (-Jud[icial] Dec[ision of the] Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania) *.

    The earliest members of Freemasonry were all Rosicrucians
    (said W.R. Martin or his "best student," R.A. Morey),
    whose doctrine W.R. Martin discusses in The Kingdom of the Cults.
    ~ ~
    -° °-
    ¨c¨
    ¨~¨
    ____________________________________
    * -- cited by Gary H. Kah [ www.GaryKah.org ] in "En Route to Global Occupation," which Huntington House published in 1992 in Lafayette, Louisiana, p. 123.
    John Ankerberg offers a primer about Masonry -- confer www.JAshow.org , or the Daystar Channel.
    Last edited by Tee Ar @ FB; 08-07-2010 at 09:13 AM. Reason: spelling; last paragraph

  20. #20
    jeanmarie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    Kevin,
    Some churches do not allow Lodge membership.

    jeanm

  21. #21
    ChrisLaRock
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    No.

    Former occultist John Todd testified to the fact that the highest level members of Freemasons worship Lucifer as their God and denounce Jesus as the god of evil. He went on to state that the Illuminati started the Masons, and that Joseph Smith created the Mormon Church in order to bring people into Masonry. The lower level Masons are seen as 'sheep to be sheared' by the higher-ups.

    Ed Decker exposed the Luciferian initiation that takes place in the Mormon Temple ceremony, complete with a man representing Lucifer bearing the symbols of both the Illuminati and Freemasonry on his apron. Blood oaths, and all that.

  22. #22
    Jean Chauvin
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    Default John Todd?

    I did not think I'd hear his name around here. You do know Todd (Collins) went back into the occult.

    I'm not sure if he was a trustworthy person. I believe he died a few years back.

    Respectfully,

    Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

  23. #23
    James Banta
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    It's a good thing you quoted all that you quoted here or many of us would question your place in Christ as much as they do a Manson's.. IHS jim

  24. #24
    ejones
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    Default Yes it is possible.

    My eye caught this thread as I perused these forums. I recognize that it is somewhat dated, but I also see that most replies are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Is it possible to be a good practicing member of the lodge and a good Christian?

    Kevin
    In fact, a non-Christian who is a freemason will miss much of the significance of the imagery used. I have to say that this thread show serious ignorance on the part of those who claim to know freemasonry, yet make false claims with wild abandon. It speaks as to to why so many see Christians as hypocrites.

  25. #25
    Tom Boots
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    No, they are against each other!
    One is the true religion, the other says it is not a religion and is and rejects one truth and salvation.
    Sad fact, all Masons will suffer hell fire and must recant and leave such as it is sin against God.

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