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Thread: Need help responding to a friend.

  1. #1
    JR
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    Default Need help responding to a friend.

    I have a friend who is a professed Christian but refuses to be baptised.

    He says he is "spiritually baptised" and that the act of immersion into water itself is just a silly formality.

    What should I tell him?
    Last edited by JR; 07-01-2009 at 08:19 PM.

  2. #2
    AllyManderson
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    I would ask him to study the scripture more thoroughly - and remember that it is possible for us ALL to err in matters of faith and morals. If he sits down for increasingly dutiful study of the Bible. I am sure he will reach the same conclusion that you have.

  3. #3
    tealblue
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    Well Jesus himself said that unless one is born again of the water and the spirirt he will not be saved. He was directly refering to water baptism.

  4. #4
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealblue View Post
    Well Jesus himself said that unless one is born again of the water and the spirirt he will not be saved. He was directly refering to water baptism.
    Teal,

    I think that Jesus had a different interpretation when He expounded further by saying: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again."

    JR, I still think that it is a matter of obedience and imitation of Christ simply because individuals in Acts were baptized in the Spirit before getting water baptized. I do not know any unsaved people that were baptized in the Spirit.

    Blessings,

    MacG

  5. #5
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealblue View Post
    Well Jesus himself said that unless one is born again of the water and the spirirt he will not be saved. He was directly refering to water baptism.
    being born of water simply means to be human. It can be taken literally by the ambient fluid we gestate in or by biblical reference to "waters"

    Revelation 17:15
    15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and mul***udes, and nations, and tongues.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  6. #6
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    And John the Baptizer (if ever there was one who'd plug water baptism) played it down. In all four Gospels he said to the effect:

    Matthew 3:11
    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Acts 19:4
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    John 7:37-39
    37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    John 4:1-14
    1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
    2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
    3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
    4 And he must needs go through Samaria.
    5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
    6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
    7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
    8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
    9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
    10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
    11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
    12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
    13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  7. #7
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    There is a ceremonial / testimonial water baptism (an ordinance in some denominations) which is at best only an outward expression of an inward transformation.

    FYI I have been baptized in the Church of Christ and in the Southern Baptist Church. Some Baptist Churches will not accept transfer memberships without rebaptism.

    But there is only one baptism that counts (is necessary for salvation).

    Ephesians 4:5
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    And according to John the water baptizer that baptism is the baptism of the Holy Ghost... namely our faith and his indwelling.

    Ephesians 1:13
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    1 Corinthians 3:16
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  8. #8
    GraftedIn73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR View Post
    I have a friend who is a professed Christian but refuses to be baptised.

    He says he is "spiritually baptised" and that the act of immersion into water itself is just a silly formality.

    What should I tell him?
    Hi JR, Tell him that any bond-servant of the Lord of Life who scoffs at His commands is in danger of being found to be a pretender and to be counted among the wicked who will be cast into outer darkness.

    "13And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
    14Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean." 2 Kings 5:13-14

    Jesus Christ hung on a tree and suffered the scorn and mocking of men as He was paying the penalty for our debts. How can we, who have been given such a rich gift, question the clear commands of the One who freely gave us that gift.

    In the p***age above, Naaman came to his senses and received the gift of the Lord with gratefulness. Let's pray that your friend does the same.

    GI73
    Last edited by GraftedIn73; 07-19-2009 at 11:13 PM. Reason: changed word to commands

  9. #9
    tealblue
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    Teal,

    I think that Jesus had a different interpretation when He expounded further by saying: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again."

    JR, I still think that it is a matter of obedience and imitation of Christ simply because individuals in Acts were baptized in the Spirit before getting water baptized. I do not know any unsaved people that were baptized in the Spirit.

    Blessings,

    MacG
    "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).

    When it is said to baptize with the holy spirit it means just as it does in acts. Simply that the holy sprit is accomapanied along side baptism. In fact the rest of the chapter after jesus says ye must be born again talks about water baptism.

    Every early christian writer related born agian to water baptism. Not one described born agian as modern protetsant do. This idea is only a few hundred years old if that.

  10. #10
    ActRaiser
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    Every early christian writer related born agian to water baptism. Not one described born agian as modern protetsant do. This idea is only a few hundred years old if that.

    Water baptism being related to being saved is true. What isn't true is that Salvation IS water baptism.

    If you fail to be baptised because of ignorance, somewhere in the Bible it mentions that Jesus was baptised for the sake of those who could not be baptised. Now... Also, God smiles in the times of Ignorance(Old Testament)

    Me, for example, I have personal reasons why I am afraid to get baptised. If it is a sin not to get baptised, either I'll lose something important such as a reward in Heaven or I'll be overlooked, according to what I have read.
    I've been Saved for so long, I had years p*** me by without knowing Baptism was essential.

    While I agree Baptism is essential for the Christian walk, the Christian walk is not salvation. Judas could cast out devils and perform miracles, but he was exceptionaly ****ed. He was undoubtedly blessed by the Holy Spirit. That's probably why he was in such trouble with God; because he had been given so much, but he didn't give ANYTHING to Jesus Christ.

  11. #11
    kentuckypreacher
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    Dear friend:

    You have some terrible misconceptions, according to what you posted. If you would like, we could correspond concerning those. But you are making statements that are very wrong a potentially spiritually fatal. Let's talk.

  12. #12
    ActRaiser
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    So what would you think those misconceptions are?

  13. #13
    kentuckypreacher
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActRaiser View Post
    Every early christian writer related born agian to water baptism. Not one described born agian as modern protetsant do. This idea is only a few hundred years old if that.

    Water baptism being related to being saved is true. What isn't true is that Salvation IS water baptism.

    If you fail to be baptised because of ignorance, somewhere in the Bible it mentions that Jesus was baptised for the sake of those who could not be baptised. Now... Also, God smiles in the times of Ignorance(Old Testament)

    Me, for example, I have personal reasons why I am afraid to get baptised. If it is a sin not to get baptised, either I'll lose something important such as a reward in Heaven or I'll be overlooked, according to what I have read.
    I've been Saved for so long, I had years p*** me by without knowing Baptism was essential.

    While I agree Baptism is essential for the Christian walk, the Christian walk is not salvation. Judas could cast out devils and perform miracles, but he was exceptionaly ****ed. He was undoubtedly blessed by the Holy Spirit. That's probably why he was in such trouble with God; because he had been given so much, but he didn't give ANYTHING to Jesus Christ.
    Where does the Bible say anything about Jesus being baptized for those "who could not be"?

    The Bible plainly teaches baptism is immersion in water for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; 8:36-38). One cannot separate baptism from salvation (Mark 16:16). It is at that point one becomes a child of God by faith (Galatians 3:26-27).

    Please read and consider these Scriptures, and let us talk more.

  14. #14
    ActRaiser
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    This Bible says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. The verse in Mark you referenced seems to refer only to the fact that you are condemned if you do not believe. Do what Walter Martin does and refer to the verse before 16:16. 16:15 refers to the Gospel, not getting wet.

    As to where it says that Jesus was baptized for those who can't be. . . I 'm not so sure. Except for the verse in the Bible where it points out the thief on the Cross got to go to Heaven despite not really being in any position to be baptized.

  15. #15
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Belief is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Eternal ****ation is the baptism of fire for unbelief.

    John 3:16-18
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Matthew 3:111
    1 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: BUT he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  16. #16
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActRaiser View Post
    This Bible says that he who believes (and therefore is baptized) will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. The verse in Mark you referenced seems to refer only to the fact that you are condemned if you do not believe. Do what Walter Martin does and refer to the verse before 16:16. 16:15 refers to the Gospel, not getting wet.

    As to where it says that Jesus was baptized for those who can't be. . . I 'm not so sure. Except for the verse in the Bible where it points out the thief on the Cross got to go to Heaven despite not really being in any position to be baptized.
    Makes more sense in light of all of scripture...
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  17. #17
    alanmolstad
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    There are some people who just are not interested in being baptized...


    I believe we should not get in their face about this question, but allow god to lead them...

  18. #18
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR View Post
    I have a friend who is a professed Christian but refuses to be baptised.

    He says he is "spiritually baptised" and that the act of immersion into water itself is just a silly formality.

    What should I tell him?
    tell him, "To each his own I guess then"...

    A person who is getting dunked should want to be, not just debated into the act...

    people should want to seek baptism, not be argued into the thing...

  19. #19
    reinart
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    He has not had his sins remitted according to scriptures, he is denying Water and Spirit baptism which is being born again of water and Spirit (and Water is not Spirit baptism, that would make the verse say then you must be born agin of Spirit and Spirit , utterly not what it says.
    Jesus was baptized in water, I guess that was a silly formality for the Son of God the Christ, who didn't need it, but did it as a example for us.
    Jesus said "whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, whosever sins ye retain, they are retained to them (JOHN 20:23), so remission along with Repentance is needed and JESUS THAT TO IN lUKE 24:47...oops and now I see this was posted back in 2009, OK, next and here is my sign.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR View Post
    I have a friend who is a professed Christian but refuses to be baptised.

    He says he is "spiritually baptised" and that the act of immersion into water itself is just a silly formality.

    What should I tell him?


    Baptism does not save anyone. For by grace are you saved. (See Ephesians 2:8 to 10) The scriptures clearly state that it is grace, through faith, that saves, not anything we do (works). After we are “in Christ” saved, we do works not to get saved, but because we are saved.

    In Acts 16:29 to 31 the question of what is necessary for salvation is plainly asked and equally plainly answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”. There is nothing more to be said about what must I do to be saved.

    Philip was asked by the eunuch what stopped him from being baptized? Phillip said that the condition for baptism was that he believed. Believing is the condition for salvation so Philip was alluding to the fact that baptism was only for those that are already saved.

    Tell your friend that getting baptized is an act of obedience to the Lord and that it is also a public identification with Jesus Christ in his death burial and resurrection. If your friend doesn’t see that there is a reason to be baptized let him be in peace and pray that he sees the fact that water baptism naturally follows salvation. Baptism neither makes or breaks salvation.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

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