Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 38 of 38

Thread: To Be or Not to Be a ****sexual

  1. #26
    Austin Canes
    Guest

    Default Many will disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    When discussing something as convoluted, politicized, misunderstood, and misrepresented as ****sexuallity, it is best to return to the holy word of
    God for our understanding....
    I can respect your view, still... many only imagine that a biblical view of these things (in reality) is all that they need. I try not to badger anyone about it, but I would disagree that the Bible offers ALL that needs to be understood about human sexuality.

    (Can't argue it too much, because people will always have differing views about it.)

    Most importantly (in my view), no one should be imposing their views upon others; certain things should be left to God's providence, not our own.

  2. #27
    Austin Canes
    Guest

    Default Considering the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthSeeker View Post
    ****sexuality continues to be a hot topic in many forms of media.
    Indeed.

    How is it viewed in the Christian sect?
    There are MANY Christian 'sects' (in my view); and surely not all who are "Christian" view ****sexuality in the exact same ways, nor do that 'handle' it as such.

    Some people say that they are born as a ****sexual.
    They say that most times, because they have valid reasons to claim the same. It is fair to say, that those of various religious doctrines or mindsets, may not necessarily agree with such claims. Still, that should not ultimately diminish the human rights of those who happen to be ****sexual.

    Do you agree with this view?
    I would agree that some people may be able to "choose" their sexual-orientation, but generally think that many and most do not have any conscious opportunity to do so.

    Or, is it a choice?
    What many decide to do as a course of living may indeed be "choice" but I cannot see how most ****sexual people could choose their sexual-orientation.

    Many churches are welcoming and accepting ****sexuals.
    I believe that is reasonable; I see no evidence that Jesus rejected ****sexual people, as many churches do even today. Not to say that He would agree that ****sexual expressions were 'correct', but that Jesus is not evidenced to be against all ****sexual PEOPLE as many (not all) Christian clearly are today.

    According to the Bible, ****sexuals will not enter into heaven.
    Really, that depends upon various translations and interpretations. I ultimately think that it (being in Heaven) is between The Lord and the individual human being. That determined by the interpretation to others; I don't believe it is.

    It seems God is casting judgment on them, even though they cannot help it. Do you agree or disagree?
    I personally cannot think that I would understand "God". I also believe that many who think they understand God, likely do not; it is a human limitation. Even so, I think that the BEST things are those tools Jesus encouraged in all who would consider Him.

    Nevertheless, I don't see any cookie-cutter-cut, perfected answers in "words" we can offer humanity; but that the essence of Christ's love remain the primary and positively-affective component of what many would refer to as "Christianity". Beyond that, I think we can and should share our opinions, views and beliefs... in that same love.

  3. #28
    oatmeal
    Guest

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Canes View Post
    I can respect your view, still... many only imagine that a biblical view of these things (in reality) is all that they need. I try not to badger anyone about it, but I would disagree that the Bible offers ALL that needs to be understood about human sexuality.


    Human sexuality was created by God: what would you say is missing from his instruction manual in regards to same?






    Most importantly (in my view), no one should be imposing their views upon others; certain things should be left to God's providence, not our own.



    God's providence towards us and in fact towards this earth is compiled in the very book you discount as being less than what is needed for our understanding of our behavior......



    Whether a man is born with a preponderance for ****sexual expression,
    or he is born, as was Cain, with murder in his heart, is well illustrated
    in this p***age from Ps. 51-"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

    We have no problem condemning murder and sentencing a convicted murderer to receive punishment......
    However, ****sexuallity has gained immense lat***ude and has been embraced pollitically; but the word of God does not change, God almighty calls ****sexuallity sin and forecasts the reserved punishment for those
    that commit it.

    Does that mean that God cannot, nor will not save ****sexuals?
    No, it does not mean that at all. He does tell us, however, Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Rom.6:12

    ****sexual behavior is driven by our lusts; it is thus acted upon by our lusts.
    Lusts are very powerful; but through Christ Jesus we have victory over our lusts

  4. #29
    Austin Canes
    Guest

    Default Let's Be Realistic For A Bit

    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    God's providence towards us and in fact towards this earth is compiled in the very book you discount as being less than what is needed for our understanding of our behavior......
    With all due respect, I know and believe there is more what I'll embrace as a human being, than merely what someone pulls/interprets from the Bible, and demands or insists I must believe or embrace. I don't rule-out what I've gotten from Scripture myself, I just don't believe that book has all the answers, nor do ANY of us likely have a perfect interpretation or understanding of what that book contains.

    Whether a man is born with a preponderance for ****sexual expression, or he is born, as was Cain, with murder in his heart, is well illustrated in this p***age from Ps. 51-"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."
    Yep; we all have a LOT of 'humanness' to let God work on and work on ourselves.

    We have no problem condemning murder and sentencing a convicted murderer to receive punishment......
    As is proper; and really in this society we don't really see many seeking to dehumanize even those who have committed 'murder'; I've heard worse things said about ****sexual people from Christians, than I've heard about murderers (almost consistently); to me, that is somewhat amazing.

    However, ****sexuallity has gained immense lat***ude and has been embraced pollitically; but the word of God does not change, God almighty calls ****sexuallity sin and forecasts the reserved punishment for those
    that commit it.
    At the very least, the "interpretation" of and "religion" about the Bible changes from place-to-place, and era-to-era; that need not be argued very much, to know it is true. (We do not put disobedient children to death, and divorce is no longer illegal; but there are MANY MORE examples.)

    Does that mean that God cannot, nor will not save ****sexuals?
    Of course, Jesus surely hung on the Cross for ****sexual people as well; anyone who says otherwise is talking about a different "Christianity" than I was taught (which is VERY possible in this world).

    No, it does not mean that at all. He does tell us, however, Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Rom.6:12
    Wise and prudent, indeed; but that isn't for YOU and every other joe-christian to enforce upon other human beings. Mind your own life/behavior, be a living example of what you believe; that is how you should likely witness in the vast majority of cases in this reality.

    ****sexual behavior is driven by our lusts; it is thus acted upon by our lusts.
    Perhaps; but not every person who is ****sexual, is that way because of some 'sin' they are committing. And just as many heterosexuals, many ****sexuals learn to control themselves and their p***ions.

    Lusts are very powerful; but through Christ Jesus we have victory over our lusts
    If you are saying that Christians and religious people don't have to deal with being HORNY... then all I will do is chuckle and say:

    Most human beings with healthy bodies (Christians included), have a sex-drive. The degree to which that is controlled is a matter of many factors; and specific sexual-appe***es are not necessarily chosen by an individual. That is, what turns YOU on as opposed to any other person, may certainly not be the same thing(s).

  5. #30
    BrotherBrian
    Guest

    Default Thanks anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherBrian View Post
    Thanks for your thoughts. Can I ask, then what if the person is celibate and Christian and attracted exclusively to members of the opposite gender? Would you be opposed to calling them heterosexual? If not, then why do you oppose calling someone who is celibate and Christian and yet attracted exclusively to members of the same gender ****sexual? It seems to be a disconnect in the Church that somehow even identifying oneself as ****sexual is just as grave an error as someone engaged in ****sexual expressions. Yet we don't see that dicotomy when it comes to one who is heterosexual, even those who engage in heterosexual expressions.

    It seems to be a double standard. In other words, the Church seems to treat all sin equally, but to even identify as a sinner in need of grace is only permissable when that person is heterosexual, because to be ****sexual and Christian is viewed as doctrinally impossible, even though the church recognizes there are indeed people in the world who do identify exclusively as ****sexual, not in an effort to identify with a sinful behavior, but to be honest about the nature of their particular nature.

    It seems that the Church would rather ****sexuals be dishonest with members of the ***embly and say they are heterosexual or celibate, and actually inadvertently teach it is better to lie, which is as grievous a sin as any. One of the 10 Commandments is thou shall not lie, but there are no commandments saying, thou shall not be ****sexual, and if you are then thou shall lie about it.

    What's a gay Christian to do when approaching the church for guidance in this manner? Yes, I am gay, and yes I am Christian, and yes I am celibate.

    Not trying to set you up with a trick question here, just really confused as to how a gay person is to navigate Christianity if we cannot even be honest about who we are. Thanks in advance for your time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Columcille View Post
    Brother Brian, it should be enough to state one's gender and leave it at that. Genesis 1.27c "Male and female he created them." I find it rather annoying to have to tell people I am white, male, or something rather obvious. There is really no need for people to parade around saying I am a heterosexual or a ****sexual. It serves no purpose except to agitate, or even more annoying still as a means of a frank pick-up line. Anyone have to say "I am a heterosexual" in a normal conversation, I find it a little awkward.
    Thanks for the response....I find your explanation did not actually answer my questions though.

  6. #31
    BrotherBrian
    Guest

    Default Romans Reconsidered

    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    When discussing something as convoluted, politicized, misunderstood, and misrepresented as ****sexuallity, it is best to return to the holy word of
    God for our understanding....

    The bible makes no excuse for sins of the flesh, but in fact declares that all sin and unrighteouness will be destroyed; that includes ****sexuals,
    fornicators, ****sexuallity, and the like...

    The only hope any of us have is through God incarnate, who died that we may live.

    The holy writ is clear: The just shall live by faith.
    Hi, While I agree we must turn to God's Word, do you think that perhaps Romans 1 is being used as a blanket condemnation of gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender people without considering the following interpretations? Thanks for your time!

    26 For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading p***ions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one,

    NOTE: Female GLBT people do not "exchange the natural function" for an unnatural and abnormal one. For a GLBT female, same gender expression is both natural and normal, therefore, this does not apply to GLBT people.

    It applies to heterosexual women. For heterosexual women, relations with a woman is not natural, and so for the women listed in these Scriptures who "exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one" the women had to have been heterosexual at first or there would have been no "exchange of function", therefore, this does not apply to GLBT Christians. Nor does it apply to heterosexual female Christians (true Christians striving to live holy lives. Obviously some are tempted from time to time)


    27 And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.


    NOTE: Male GLBT people do not turn from natural relations with women because it is not in our nature to have relations with women. For a male GLBT person, same gender expression is both natural and normal, therefore, this portion of the Scripture does not apply to GLBT Christians.

    It applies to heterosexual men. For heterosexual men, relations with a woman is natural, and so to "turn from natural relations with women and to be set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another", or to be "going astray" these men would have had to be heterosexual at first in order to have "turned from natural relations with women", therefore, this does not apply to GLBT Christians. Nor does it apply to male heterosexual Christians (true Christians striving to live holy lives. Obviously some are tempted from time to time)


    But what does the term "for this reason" relate to in verse 26? It relates back to verses 21-25. But most Christians p**** down Romans 1 until all we see are details about how these heterosexual people came to be engaging in same gender expressions. I believe that most Christians get this backwards. They don't acknowledge or share what "for this reason" means in verse 26. They interpret it to say that people were gay first, therefore, they reject God and therefore God turned them over. But that's not the order we see at all.


    It also fails to study out what Paul was talking about who these people were worshiping instead of God. They were ancient pagan idols, and Paul said they were represented by images of mortal men, birds, four footed beasts and reptiles. Sure enough, if one were to cross reference the ancient Roman and Greek gods, we see that indeed they were represented exactly as Paul said they were:

    Zeus: His attribute is the lightning bolt and his symbol the eagle, who is also his messenger (BIRD)

    Hermes: The symbols of Mercury are the caduceus (a staff with two intertwined snakes) (REPTILE)

    Hestia Goddess of the Fire (both sacred and domestic) and the Hearth. Daughter of Saturn and Ops. Her sacred animal was the a ss. Patroness of bakers. Her chief festival was the Vestalia on June 7. One of the most worshipped of the Roman deities.
    (FOUR FOOTED BEAST)

    Poseidon: Horse and bull (FOUR FOOTED BEAST)

    Aprhodite: dove (BIRD)

    Hera: was goddess of marriage and the queen of Olympus. She was Zeus's wife and sister; many myths tell of how she sought revenge when Zeus betrayed her with his lovers. Her symbols include the pea**** and the cow. (BIRD) (FOUR FOOTED BEAST)

    Ares: was the god of war. He was both cruel and a coward. Ares was the son of Zeus and Hera, but neither of his parents liked him. His symbols include the vulture and the dog, and he often carried a bloody spear. (BIRD) (FOUR FOOTED BEAST)

    Athena was the goddess of wisdom. She was also skilled in the art of war, and helped heroes such as Odysseus and Hercules. Athena sprang full-grown from the forehead of Zeus, and became his favorite child. Her symbols include the owl and the olive tree. (BIRD)

    Dionysus was the god of wine, which he invented. In ancient Greece Dionysus was honored with springtime festivals that centered on theater. Dionysus was the son of Zeus and Semele, a mortal. His symbols include ivy, the snake, and grapes. (REPTILE)


    These are the gods to whom Paul refers that the Romans were worshiping and returned to worshiping them even after hearing the Word of God, and again, as Paul said, these gods were represented by images of mortal men, birds, reptiles and four footed beasts.

    These are the "creatures" they worshiped instead of the Creator, just as Paul describes in Romans 1:21-23, saying:


    21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and ****** speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.

    22Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].

    23And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles. Romans 1:21-23



    But if we start off quoting Romans 1 beginning at verse 26, as most Christians do, we miss the entire context in which these Scriptures are set. Also, many Christians fail to realize that idol worship was nothing new, but that in fact, Romans 1 is a repeat and fulfillment of the prophecies contained in Amos 5:25-27.

    We even see that some of the Israelites worshiped these same gods, which is why they built the golden calf, and God even prophesies through Amos that not only were they guilty of worshiping these pagan gods while in the wilderness, but "would do so again." Paul's words in Romans is a description of this original event where God says:

    25 Did you bring to Me sacrifices and cereal offerings during those forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel?

    26 [No] but [instead of bringing Me the appointed sacrifices] you carried about the tent of your king Sakkuth and Kaiwan [names for the gods of the planet Saturn], your images of your star-god which you made for yourselves [and you will do so again].

    27Therefore I will cause you to go into exile beyond Damascus, says the Lord, whose name is the God of hosts.
    Amos 5:25-27

    Romans 1 is fulfillment of this prophecy from God. And guess what lies "beyond Damascus" from Egypt?? ROME!


    Finally, we see that even Paul and Barnabas encountered idol worshipers before even arriving in Rome as we review the Book of Acts:


    8 Now at Lystra a man sat who found it impossible to use his feet, for he was a cripple from birth and had never walked.

    9 He was listening to Paul as he talked, and [Paul] gazing intently at him and observing that he had faith to be healed,

    10 Shouted at him, saying, Stand erect on your feet! And he leaped up and walked.

    11 And the crowds, when they saw what Paul had done, lifted up their voices, shouting in the Lycaonian language, The gods have come down to us in human form!

    12 They called Barnabas Zeus, and they called Paul, because he led in the discourse, Hermes [god of speech].

    13 And the priest of Zeus, whose [temple] was at the entrance of the town, brought bulls and garlands to the [city's] gates and wanted to join the people in offering sacrifice. Acts 14:8-13

    Now, note again the first 2 gods I listed above:

    Zeus: His attribute is the lightning bolt and his symbol the eagle, who is also his messenger (BIRD)

    Hermes: The symbols of Mercury are the caduceus (a staff with two intertwined snakes) (REPTILE)

  7. #32
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthSeeker View Post
    Some people say that they are born as a ****sexual. Do you agree with this view? Or, is it a choice?
    a moot point.

    it does not matter what you were born with a predisposition toward, the bible is clear in teaching that ****sexual acts are a sin, and therefore you are to avoid them....case closed.

  8. #33
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    I think I will tell a story that opened my eyes on this topic...

  9. #34
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    in our church we have speakers come in and give talks about different issues of the day.
    one time a person came to talk to us about the local "Home for Boys", run by the catholic monastery.

    One of the Brothers of the monastery come to talk to us about the Home.
    After the talk, (intended to build support for the Home within the community ) there was a time set aside for Q&A.

    A question was asked about the type of boys at the Home?
    And the answer was surprising...

    I had ***umed that most of the young boys where there because that had lost their parents and had no place else to go, but I was wrong.

    It turns out that the vast majority of boys at this home where there because that had committed many sexual crimes and were listed as repeat sexual offenders.

    We then learned what they did at this Home to help the boys .
    and that is what i wanted to tell you guys here now.

    the Brother was asked if "counseling" actually helped any of the boys that were sexual offenders?
    The Brother's answer was not what I expected....


    The Brother asked me if i was a confirmed Heterosexual ?
    I answered that i was.

    Then the Brother asked me if I thought that any "counseling" would ever be able to change that and change me into being a guy who was sexually attracted to boys?

    My answer was a definite "NO!"

    The Brother then pointed out to me , that although I'm never going to be other than a strictly Heterosexual , yet because I also am married I have found that I have been able to "control" my more wild Heterosexual proclivities and thus am not subject to the more base animal sexual nature inside me.

    This is what is the hope for the staff there also at the Home for boys.



    From this i came away with the following conclusion-
    I came away with the idea that when i hear people debating over the question of "Born Gay Or Not?" I have a different answer than most Christians...

    My answer is..."Its a moot point"....."It does not matter"...""The bible is clearly speaking to the evils of ****sexual acts, and so even if you are born gay it does not mean you are doomed to be forever in sin"

    For i believe that regardless we have the ability to limit our actions to conform to accepted behaviors.

  10. #35
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    and....I think the AZ law would have been a bad idea.

    I think it was a bad idea for a law from the start, and would have only served to bring out the darker side of our human nature.

  11. #36
    aaronpaul
    Guest

    Default

    being gay is a choice, sorry. I have my beliefs and if you don't like it tough, deal with it

  12. #37
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    in our church we have speakers come in and give talks about different issues of the day.
    one time a person came to talk to us about the local "Home for Boys", run by the catholic monastery.

    One of the Brothers of the monastery come to talk to us about the Home.
    After the talk, (intended to build support for the Home within the community ) there was a time set aside for Q&A.

    A question was asked about the type of boys at the Home?
    And the answer was surprising...

    I had ***umed that most of the young boys where there because that had lost their parents and had no place else to go, but I was wrong.

    It turns out that the vast majority of boys at this home where there because that had committed many sexual crimes and were listed as repeat sexual offenders.

    We then learned what they did at this Home to help the boys .
    and that is what i wanted to tell you guys here now.

    the Brother was asked if "counseling" actually helped any of the boys that were sexual offenders?
    The Brother's answer was not what I expected....


    The Brother asked me if i was a confirmed Heterosexual ?
    I answered that i was.

    Then the Brother asked me if I thought that any "counseling" would ever be able to change that and change me into being a guy who was sexually attracted to boys?

    My answer was a definite "NO!"

    The Brother then pointed out to me , that although I'm never going to be other than a strictly Heterosexual , yet because I also am married I have found that I have been able to "control" my more wild Heterosexual proclivities and thus am not subject to the more base animal sexual nature inside me.

    This is what is the hope for the staff there also at the Home for boys.



    From this i came away with the following conclusion-
    I came away with the idea that when i hear people debating over the question of "Born Gay Or Not?" I have a different answer than most Christians...

    My answer is..."Its a moot point"....."It does not matter"...""The bible is clearly speaking to the evils of ****sexual acts, and so even if you are born gay it does not mean you are doomed to be forever in sin"

    For i believe that regardless we have the ability to limit our actions to conform to accepted behaviors.
    another of one of my better posts!

  13. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    477

    Default

    I was reading Tony Compolo's book red Letter Christians recently and in it he state that ****sexuals have been ****sexuals for so long that they do not remember it being a choice. ****sexuality is a choice and it is a deception, like transgenderism is, from evil. It is part of its plan to ruin and destroy God's creation
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •