Begging for response.

[GiGi]

Originally Posted by Columcille

1. Do not feel it necessary to expound, as it will lead to an unproductive ***-for-tat.
2. I had to run your quote through Google. I thought Mr. Bush was the last one, but it seems you mean President Bush Senior. One term president who let the UN keep Saddam in power after his invading the soveriegn country of Kuwait. Weak kneed, not a true Reagan conservative, even though he was his VP. President Bush Senior is not my bishop, and typically I find athiesm to rather a hopeless religious system. Not sure what sort of "sacrifices or contributions atheist have made for America" except in advancing their own freedoms and limiting the rest of everyone elses. I find the statement there are no such things as athiests in foxholes rather a trueful statement. While I see athiests in the military, and they may be in Iraq with me sacrificing their time, I have heard their remarks when in a smalls arms fire or just following an IED blast when they are not preferencing their remarks... God is ever on their mind, they just don't like him.
3. You know how the Vatican became its own soveriegn state? It was because Italy's government in the 1870s thought that if they controled the Catholic Church that they can force the Church to help their own cause.
Secular politics in America has within its cons***ution certain rights of its citizens to practice their religion. If it could be possible, I have no doubt that many of the ****sexual caucus in the secular government would love to dictate to the Christian ministries and churches by strong arming them into submission to become tolerant of ****sexual lifestyles. This strong arming may be done in various ways, from attempts to take away tax-free exemption, from even electing Harry Knox as head of the faith based initiatives, and many other means. That fact that you are even talking about it shows that even you want to attempt this sort of change in the religious arena. If you get the highest court in the land to rule in favor of ****sexual marriages, the civil rights movement will undoubtably take this to the churches that deny marriage and press charges for discrimination. Hey, it worked with the Mormons twice... they even had to have two official declarations that God changes his mind to allow blacks into ministry and Mormons could no longer have more than one wife. At any rate, it already seems that some once conservative denominations in America have already folded, the ECUSA was once more high Anglican than it is today. Luther is probably already rolling in his grave over the ELCA.

This entire discussion has deteriorated into an unproductive *** for tat.
I hoped we could do better.
I'm perfectly capable of addressing each point you've made, predictible cliche's, deliberate misrepresentations, government conspiracies, but I feel it would be a waste of time.
If I were you, I wouldn't whine about any mistreatment of the Vatican in Rome in 1870. Someone might come along and ask you what catholicism was up to in Ireland that same decade.
I realize I'm being rather abrupt. I'm tired of finding a christian that might explain their world-view, only to be disappointed yet again.