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Thread: A modest proposal

  1. #26
    sunofmysoul
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiGi View Post
    Thought provoking.
    I favor birth control, first trimester abortion on demand, and science that keeps us healthy and extends our life expectency.
    I object to having children we can't afford to care for, forcing people to have children they don't want, and witholding life saving treatment from the elderly, if they want it.
    If we can say, 'don't play god' by using birth control, or providing abortion services, it stands to reason that we should not 'play god' by taking extraordinary steps to save premmies, or resuscitating heart attack victims, vaccinating the population against disease, or giving antibotics to cure grandma's pnuemonia.
    i would be in agreement with ya...
    on abortion it is still a tough topic for me...
    the question of where life truly begins...
    I rather wish we could focus more on the prevention of unwanted pregnancy in the beginning...
    but i too have problems with those who have children they cannot afford to care for, and others who mistreat and or/ have killed their children.
    I wish their was a way to have to "qualify" to be a parent...
    with the knowledge we have scientifically already this seems a logical step...

  2. #27
    GiGi
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofmysoul View Post
    i would be in agreement with ya...
    on abortion it is still a tough topic for me...
    the question of where life truly begins...
    I rather wish we could focus more on the prevention of unwanted pregnancy in the beginning...
    but i too have problems with those who have children they cannot afford to care for, and others who mistreat and or/ have killed their children.
    I wish their was a way to have to "qualify" to be a parent...
    with the knowledge we have scientifically already this seems a logical step...
    Even affordable, accessible, effective birth control is controversial in religious circles. Just another way mere mortals 'play god'.
    While I am pro-choice, I am also anti-abortion. Its not a question of life, that much is pretty obvious.
    Abortion screams failure! Failure to teach, failure to learn, failure to protect, failure to meet needs, failure to take responsibility, and so much more.
    I don't think any reasonable person can make a list of circumstances in which (a) god will allow people to interfere with 'the plan', and when he won't. Yet, that's exactly what they do.

  3. #28
    sunofmysoul
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiGi View Post
    Even affordable, accessible, effective birth control is controversial in religious circles. Just another way mere mortals 'play god'.
    While I am pro-choice, I am also anti-abortion. Its not a question of life, that much is pretty obvious.
    Abortion screams failure! Failure to teach, failure to learn, failure to protect, failure to meet needs, failure to take responsibility, and so much more.
    I don't think any reasonable person can make a list of circumstances in which (a) god will allow people to interfere with 'the plan', and when he won't. Yet, that's exactly what they do.
    reminds me of a book that had a tremendous effect on me....
    have you happened to read THE Giver?

  4. #29
    GiGi
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofmysoul View Post
    reminds me of a book that had a tremendous effect on me....
    have you happened to read THE Giver?
    I did, ages ago! Now I'm going to have to find it again.

  5. #30
    Bat-Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    In other words, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"?
    Yes, and by that I mean that I believe our focus should be placed on who and what we are and can and will become, as individuals, rather than on WHERE we will live.

  6. #31
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    For those who believe that:

    1. 100% of embryos, blastocysts, fetuses, babies, and children (up to an 'age of accountability' go to paradise if they die; and
    2. The vast majority of people over the age of accountability will be eternally tormented after they die

    Would not the most logical and moral stance be to terminate as many pregnancies (and indeed, kill newborns and children!) as possible? By all probability, would it not be 'rescuing' people, from an eternal perspective?

    What am I missing here?
    "Thou shall not murder"

  7. #32
    asdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    "Thou shall not murder"
    So you're going with, "Following the rules is more important than saving people from unending torture".

    Thanks.

  8. #33
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    So you're going with, "Following the rules is more important than saving people from unending torture".

    Thanks.
    well....what do I call being ripper apart piece by piece?

    What do i call being put to a painful death while people around you say nothing, and not even admit you have a right to complain?


    What do I call being robbed of the gift of life due to no fault of your own, and being sentenced to death with out trial, without being found guilty of any crime?

    I call it "torture"

    Thus the pro-Life position is the ONLY truly Christian position to take.


    Everything else is just a cop-out

  9. #34
    asdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    well....what do I call being ripper apart piece by piece?
    A quick death. Even accepting your premise, we're talking maybe half an hour of "torture" followed by an eternity of paradise. How does that compare to an eternity of ceaseless suffering?

  10. #35
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    A quick death. Even accepting your premise, we're talking maybe half an hour of "torture" followed by an eternity of paradise. How does that compare to an eternity of ceaseless suffering?
    I bit tasteless there I think....

    I can not turn my back on the suffering of they who are the most innocent.....

    I can deem it "unimportant" just because they lack the voice I can hear...

    God hears...

    God remembers.



    Remember, we are not sent into the world to save the rich and the well comforted....

    We are sent to the lost...the overlooked..
    The rejected.

    They are ours because they are forgotten by the world that considers them not worth the time to worry about.

    But each child is special to the Lord......
    each child....

    The gift of life is a gift....
    The giver is the Lord.
    It is his judgement that is our guide.

    So...what did Jesus say about the people that cause one of the "little ones" to stumble?

  11. #36
    asdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I bit tasteless there I think....
    Yes of course it comes across as tasteless. You still don't seem to understand me—or rather to want to understand me.

    I do not agree with your premises. But I am accepting your premises for the sake of argument, and maintaining that your conclusions do not follow from them.

    Your responses make clear that you are either not reading, or not comprehending, my posts.

    I think we're done here.

  12. #37
    alanmolstad
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    we are judged not by how fast we came to the aid of the rich,,,,the well spoken....the powerful.

    Rather the merit of a person is truly learned when that person runs to defend they who are without any money....

    who have no voice to defend themselves with...


    Who are innocent and defenseless.

  13. #38
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    For those who believe that:

    1. 100% of embryos, blastocysts, fetuses, babies, and children (up to an 'age of accountability') go to paradise if they die; and
    2. The vast majority of people over the age of accountability will be eternally tormented after they die

    Would not the most logical and moral stance be to terminate as many pregnancies (and indeed, kill newborns and children!) as possible? By all probability, would it not be 'rescuing' people, from an eternal perspective?

    What am I missing here?
    You are missing any understanding of the Commandment against murder...

  14. #39
    Rickypon
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    Yes abortion is as like as murder. The innocent child who did not know any thing about their life and the child is not born yet and their parents decide to kill him this is totally wrong thing. There must be some thing to stop such kind of killing.

  15. #40
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    You are missing any understanding of the Commandment against murder...
    the logic that we send people to heaven by abortion and so it would be better if all died in abortion is sorta like saying that because over 80% of black children are born into single-parent poor families that we should force abortions on to all black mothers to save their children from being poor.

    The right to life is to all, regardless of their religion or fate in the afterlife, or their parents, or the pile of money in their parents bank account.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-13-2014 at 09:56 AM.

  16. #41
    alanmolstad
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    the unborn have a right to life.....its a right.....its the right thing to do.

    Life is painfull, there is suffering, pain....wars...
    yet life is worth it.

    If God had wanted to, he could have skipped the "Being born" stuff and just had us all appear in heaven with him.

    But there is something about this valley of tears that we walk that is worth the effort.

    there is a merit, a value to being alive that we may never understand, but our creator did....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-13-2014 at 08:25 PM.

  17. #42
    brisbenea
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    the unborn have a right to life.....its a right.....its the right thing to do.

    Life is painfull, there is suffering, pain....wars...
    yet life is worth it.

    If God had wanted to, he could have skipped the "Being born" stuff and just had us all appear in heaven with him.

    But there is something about this valley of tears that we walk that is worth the effort.

    there is a merit, a value to being alive that we may never understand, but our creator did....
    This my friends, i could not explain it any better. This is exactly why there should not be abortions.

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