Watch How Easy This Is

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114336]

Originally Posted by BrianH

Yes Brian---but it is you who then ascertains that we are the one who would kill someone if we THOUGHT God told us to do it, rather than if we knew it was God who told us to do it. And the Israelites give ample evidence that God spoke to them and they did do what you think is illogical given what you know about God.

Please at least TRY to explain how you would even pretend to know anything without thinking it, Julie.

Then GO BACK and try to actually R E A D what I said. It is YOUR pal Mr. "Sir" who straddled you with the lame task of having to defend your willingness to kill people because you THINK God told you to.

Meanwhile those of us who know God and his word could not be fooled by such a transparent lie. YOU, on the other hand, have once again conclusivly proven just how far you are from God AND how easily you can be and ARE fooled.

-BH

.

[Libby]

Meanwhile those of us who know God and his word could not be fooled by such a transparent lie.

Right.....

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE=BrianH;114338
Then GO BACK and try to actually R E A D what I said. It is YOUR pal Mr. "Sir" who straddled you with the lame task of having to defend your willingness to kill people because you THINK God told you to.


.[/QUOTE] Sir never said "THINK"---that is your spin and that is my point.

[BrianH]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Sir never said "THINK"---that is your spin and that is my point.

I don't care WHAT he "said" - the FACT is you cannot "know" something WITHOUT "thinking" it. If you "think" that God told you to kill your husband, it is obvious that you do not KNOW God. You guys are just creepy on this. You would actually KILL your own spouse? You know, the Mountain Meadows M***acre was perpetrated by people just like you who THOUGHT that God told them to kill all those people. After all, the Mormon "prophet" TOLD them to do it, right?

Now please explain why you attributed Mr. "Sir's" bogus statement to ME. Have you even bothered to actually go back and see how you blew it, Julie? Are you paying attention yet?

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

I don't care WHAT he "said" - the FACT is you cannot "know" something WITHOUT "thinking" it.

Oh brother...this is your next spin...you can't know something until you think something?? I guess to you then, it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is. Yeah, keep trying to change this to THINK....

*sigh*

One of the tactics of Mormon critics is to argue against what you want us to be saying rather than what we are actually saying. Another is to argue against what you have been told we believe rather than what we say we believe.

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114351]

Oh brother...this is your next spin...you can't know something until you think something?? I guess to you then, it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is. Yeah, keep trying to change this to THINK....

*sigh*

Fallacy: Straw man. I did not say you can't know something UNTIL you think it; I asked you to explain how you can know something (specifically that God told you to kill your husband) WITHOUT thinking it. If you do not understand the difference between what I said and your misrepresentation of it, it will remain obvious that YOU are the one doing all the spin here, BJ.

One of the tactics of Mormon critics is to argue against what you want us to be saying rather than what we are actually saying. Another is to argue against what you have been told we believe rather than what we say we believe.

Until you can explain how you can even pretend to know that God wants you to kill your spouse WITHOUT that idea existing in your mind as a THOUGHT, your attempt to wiggle out of this will remain as obvious as it is ineffective.

Go ahead and explain how you can even pretend to know the voice of God if you are willing to DISOBEY his word under the pretense of knowing that he told you to kill your husband, Big J.

I can hardly wait ...though I think we both know that you will not answer.

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

Fallacy: Straw man. I did not say you can't know something UNTIL you think it; I asked you to explain how you can know something (specifically that God told you to kill your husband) WITHOUT thinking it.

Yup, keep trying to spin it Brian.

If you do not understand the difference between what I said and your misrepresentation of it, it will remain obvious that YOU are the one doing all the spin here, BJ.

Another tactic you like to use, throw something back to the person who points out your lack of integrity in the discussion. Sir did not ask you what you would do if you THINK God spoke to you...he asked what you would do if you KNOW God spoke to you.

I can hardly wait ...though I think we both know that you will not answer.

-BH

.

Of course I won't because you are asking me to accept your false premise--your spin. How about start with the right premise (the true question that was asked) and we can go from there.

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114360]

Yup, keep trying to spin it Brian.

YOUR fallacious and deliberate misrepresentations do not cons***ue ME spinning anything.

Another tactic you like to use, throw something back to the person who points out your lack of integrity in the discussion. Sir did not ask you what you would do if you THINK God spoke to you...he asked what you would do if you KNOW God spoke to you.

You have yet to point out any such lack of integrity. Sir DID ask if we would kill our wives if we THOUGHT God told us to, insofar as it is IMPOSSIBLE to "know" that WITHOUT thinking it. But the entire premise is transparently lame because those of us who know God and his word, would instantly KNOW that the en***y telling us to kill our wives is obviously NOT God. YOU, on the other hand would not. Nor would you even have any basis to know that because you obviously do NOT know the word of God nor the Spirit of God.

In defending this absurd argument, you have proven that you actually WOULD kill your own husband if you THOUGHT God told you to, since you obviously cannot "know" anything without THINKING it. Don't you think you should just give up on this hopelessly indefensible position? Or are you going to go down with your burning ship?

Of course I won't because you are asking me to accept your false premise--your spin. How about start with the right premise (the true question that was asked) and we can go from there.

What is my premise, Julie? If you cannot even tell me WHAT my premise is, then you obviously have no basis for telling me its false and it remains obvious that you have been caught out in public once again trying to defend the indefensible.

Are you even reading this or are you just running on automatic here?

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

YOUR fallacious and deliberate misrepresentations do not cons***ue ME spinning anything.

Trying to insist that to know something means the same as to think something is spin Brian.

You have yet to point out any such lack of integrity. Sir DID ask if we would kill our wives if we THOUGHT God told us to, insofar as it is IMPOSSIBLE to "know" that WITHOUT thinking it.

If you go to the original post of this thread: Sir states that a critic asked (so your spin number one is that this is Sir's question.)

The question posed by a critic (keeping names anonymous to avoid issues):

"If you knew for sure that God was speaking to you and God asked you to take out your wife into the backyard and sacrifice her would you do it?"

So, it wasn't THINK at all--but even "know for sure."

So, Brian, do you want to address this issue with any kind of honesty or do you want us to keep trying to discuss what you spin the question to be?

What is my premise, Julie? If you cannot even tell me WHAT my premise is, then you obviously have no basis for telling me its false and it remains obvious that you have been caught out in public once again trying to defend the indefensible.

First false premise: The the question was originally Sirs which it is not.

Second false premise: that "know for sure" somehow means "think."

Your spin from this is that Mormons would kill their spouse if they THINK God told them to. *sigh*

Here is the original quote by the original poster:

Originally Posted by Billyray

If you knew for sure that God was speaking to you and God asked you to take out your wife into the backyard and sacrifice her would you do it?

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114372]

Trying to insist that to know something means the same as to think something is spin Brian.

No its a fact ...at least until you can support your claim by actually EXPLAINING HOW you know God wants you to kill your husband without that idea being in your mind as a thought. Your failure to even try to meet that challenge is a functional admission that even you know YOU are the one doing all the spin here.

If you go to the original post of this thread: Sir states that a critic asked (so your spin number one is that this is Sir's question.)

The question posed by a critic (keeping names anonymous to avoid issues):

That is the question, "Sir" asked. HE is the one who posed it here and HE is the one who answered it in the affirmative. And here YOU are sharing and defending his claim that he WOULD kill his spouse if "God" told him to. The problem is, both "Sir" and YOU obviously do not know God, since if you did, you would instantly know that the one telling you to kill your spouse is NOT God.

So, it wasn't THINK at all--but even "know for sure."

Explain how you can even pretend to "know for sure" that God wants you to kill your husband WITHOUT thinking it, Julie.

So, Brian, do you want to address this issue with any kind of honesty or do you want us to keep trying to discuss what you spin the question to be?

You just accused me of being dishonest. I challenge you to either support that accusation or apologize and retract it.

First false premise: The the question was originally Sirs which it is not.

First of all that is not my premise. Secondly, it most certainly was "Sir" who posed that question here in THIS thread and then ANSWERING it.

Second false premise: that "know for sure" somehow means "think."

Okay that is a premise, but you have not provided any reason to think it is false. Just REPEATING your claim when asked to support it is functional admission that you yourself know you cannot support that claim and you are obviously trying to obscure what will remain obvious until you DO support it. All you have to do now, Julie, is to explain how you can even pretend to "know" anything (much less that God wants you to kill your husband) WITHOUT that THOUGHT p***ing through your mind.

I am still waiting for you to do more than just chant your mantra and repeat the claim that I am asking you to explain.

Your spin from this is that Mormons would kill their spouse if they THINK God told them to. *sigh*

That is not "spin" it is a NECESSARY condition. Explain how you can KNOW that God wants you to kill your husband without thinking it, Julie.

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

No its a fact ...at least until you can support your claim by actually EXPLAINING HOW you know God wants you to kill your husband without that idea being in your mind as a thought. Your failure to even try to meet that challenge is a functional admission that even you know YOU are the one doing all the spin here.

The premise of the question is that you know for sure. It is you who keeps trying to now make the question different from what it is. It doesn't matter how you know---the premise is that you "know for sure." This is just your desparate attempt to look like you weren't trying to spin it when you were.

That is the question, "Sir" asked. HE is the one who posed it here and HE is the one who answered it in the affirmative. And here YOU are sharing and defending his claim that he WOULD kill his spouse if "God" told him to. The problem is, both "Sir" and YOU obviously do not know God, since if you did, you would instantly know that the one telling you to kill your spouse is NOT God.

Once again, that is not the premise of the question. The premise isn't whether or not it was God and the premise doesn't discuss how you know. The question is "if you know for sure" it is God. You keep trying to spin the question because you don't want to answer it as it stands. The only point I made is that your logic that God does not tell us to kill is not congruent with the Bible. The Israelites knew it was God and the Isrealites did what He said to do.

Explain how you can even pretend to "know for sure" that God wants you to kill your husband WITHOUT thinking it, Julie.

That wasn't the question Brian. You just keep trying to spin it to what you think it should say.

You just accused me of being dishonest. I challenge you to either support that accusation or apologize and retract it.

You said the Sir asked the question, which in his original post, he said a critic asked the question--he just repeated it.

First of all that is not my premise. Secondly, it most certainly was "Sir" who posed that question here in THIS thread and then ANSWERING it.

This is what you said that Sir asked:

Sir DID ask if we would kill our wives if we THOUGHT God told us to

..as this is not what he asked, your question is dishonest.

Okay that is a premise, but you have not provided any reason to think it is false.

THe premise is false because if Sir meant to say "think" he would have said that rather than saying "know for sure."

I am still waiting for you to do more than just chant your mantra and repeat the claim that I am asking you to explain.

I am still waiting for you to answer the question that Sir reposted from a critic. Repeating your false premise over and over again in hopes of making a point does not answer the question.

That is not "spin" it is a NECESSARY condition. Explain how you can KNOW that God wants you to kill your husband without thinking it, Julie.

The is not the question. How did the Israelites KNOW it was God telling them to kill the Medianites? How did Abraham KNOW it was God who told him to sacrifice Isaac? The question isn't HOW someone knows, but rather what they do when they DO KNOW.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

The question isn't HOW someone knows, but rather what they do when they DO KNOW.

Warren Jeffs "KNOWS" that God is talking to him and giving him revelation. Shouldn't he act on it?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Warren Jeffs "KNOWS" that God is talking to him and giving him revelation. Shouldn't he act on it?

oh brother. Once again, the question wasn't THINKS, but "know for sure"---so the premise is that it is God and the person knows it is God. Then do you listen?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

oh brother. Once again, the question wasn't THINKS, but "know for sure"---so the premise is that it is God and the person knows it is God. Then do you listen?

I am sure that Warren Jeffs KNOWS that it is God who is speaking to him.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Then do you listen?

I know what God has told me and that is in his word. What else is required of me for salvation?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I know what God has told me and that is in his word. What else is required of me for salvation?

What has he told you Billyray? What do you lack?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What has he told you Billyray? What do you lack?

That Mormonism is false and that his teachings for us are in his word specifically the NT.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

That Mormonism is false and that his teachings for us are in his word specifically the NT.

You didn't answer the question regarding what you lack--just another stab at Mormonism.

Well, then, if you go to him in prayer and He tells you nothing regarding Billyray--then I can only ***ume that He is not talking to you.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You didn't answer the question regarding what you lack--just another stab at Mormonism.

Here was your question

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What has he told you Billyray? What do you lack?

And here was my answer

Originally Posted by Billyray

That Mormonism is false and that his teachings for us are in his word specifically the NT.

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114384]

The premise of the question is that you know for sure. It is you who keeps trying to now make the question different from what it is. It doesn't matter how you know---the premise is that you "know for sure." This is just your desparate attempt to look like you weren't trying to spin it when you were.

The premise is itself bogus since, as SHOULD be obvious to anyone who names the name of Christ, that anyone who tells you to murder your spouse is obviously NOT God. And it most certainly DOES matter, since MANY people have murdered their spouses claiming that it was God who told them to do so. Were they right, Julie? DID God tell them to murder their spouses?

Once again, that is not the premise of the question. The premise isn't whether or not it was God and the premise doesn't discuss how you know. The question is "if you know for sure" it is God. You keep trying to spin the question because you don't want to answer it as it stands. The only point I made is that your logic that God does not tell us to kill is not congruent with the Bible. The Israelites knew it was God and the Isrealites did what He said to do.

If the premise is not concerned with whether or not it was God who gives this command ...why does it ask explicitly about God supposedly telling you to kill your spouse???? You are now at that inevitable point where you are not making any sense at all.

That wasn't the question Brian. You just keep trying to spin it to what you think it should say.

It is a NECESSARY condition of the question ...that is until you can meet the challenge of explaining how you can even pretend to "know" that God wants you to kill your husband without "thinking" it.

You said the Sir asked the question, which in his original post, he said a critic asked the question--he just repeated it.

But HE is the one repeating it here as THE question HE answered. The question is not really the problem since it is obviously just a specious canard. The problem you face is your ANSWER. YOU have admitted, by defending and agreeing with "Sir's" ANSWER that HE (and you) would kill your spouses. But if you knew God at all, you would have never fallen for this to begin with. Its a stoopid question. Its your ANSWER that is truly concerning.

This is what you said that Sir asked:


..as this is not what he asked, your question is dishonest.

Pointing out a NECESSARY condition of his question is not "dishonest". It is simple, obvious clear thinking. Until YOU can explain how one can know that God wants you to kill your husband WITHOUT thinking it, it will REMAIN a NECESSARY condition of his question. Your personal accusation of my supposed dishonesty is, as usual, unsupportable and just another desperate deflection on your part. You are only fooling yourself with these lame tactics.

THe premise is false because if Sir meant to say "think" he would have said that rather than saying "know for sure."

Until you can explain how you can know that God wants you to kill your husband without that idea p***ing through your mind as a thought, the obvious will REMAIN obvious: thinking is a NECESSARY condition of knowing such a thing.

I am still waiting for you to answer the question that Sir reposted from a critic. Repeating your false premise over and over again in hopes of making a point does not answer the question.

Your claiming my premise is false is not an argument. Until you can explain how you can "know" that God wants you to kill your husband without " thinking' it, it will remain obvious that my premise is a NECESSARY condition of knowing such a thing.

he is not the question. How did the Israelites KNOW it was God telling them to kill the Medianites? How did Abraham KNOW it was God who told him to sacrifice Isaac? The question isn't HOW someone knows, but rather what they do when they DO KNOW.

Wrong. The question is not about Abraham or the Israelites. Its about ME and YOU and "Sir". etc. We are the ones to whom the question was posed. YOU have made it disturbingly clear that YOU would kill your husband and "Sir" that he would kill his wife, thereby proving that you guys do not know God or his word which explicitly prohibits you from doing what you can only "think" that God wants you to do.

I would not fall for such an obvious fake God. Nor would any Christian who knows God and his word. The sad fact is ...you would fall for it and you have made that unmistakably clear. And THAT is the fundamental difference between Mormonism and Christianity. Christians believe God and his word. Mormons do not. Mormons believe whatever the LDS church tells them to believe IF it makes them feel good at the moment.

BIG difference.

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

The premise is itself bogus since, as SHOULD be obvious to anyone who names the name of Christ, that anyone who tells you to murder your spouse is obviously NOT God.

So, to you, Billyray's question in the first place started with a false premise because God would obviously not tell someone to kill their spouse. (Do you realize that you changed the word from "kill" to "murder"---another attempt at spin. We have examples in the Bible of God telling the Isrealites to kill the Medianites. We have God telling ABraham to sacrifice Isaac and we have God telling the Isrealites to stone the wife if she is an adulteress...well, please explain your logic here.

And it most certainly DOES matter, since MANY people have murdered their spouses claiming that it was God who told them to do so. Were they right, Julie? DID God tell them to murder their spouses?

You are attempting to change the question again--which is that you "know for sure that it is God"--not someone else and not that you "think" it is God.

If the premise is not concerned with whether or not it was God who gives this command ...why does it ask explicitly about God supposedly telling you to kill your spouse???? You are now at that inevitable point where you are not making any sense at all.

Just asking you to address the question as asked, not what you want it to be.

It is a NECESSARY condition of the question ...that is until you can meet the challenge of explaining how you can even pretend to "know" that God wants you to kill your husband without "thinking" it.

Think of it as an Israelite who just found out that their wife has committed adultery..would you stone her?

Pointing out a NECESSARY condition of his question is not "dishonest".

The point I made is that those in the Bible were asked to do things that seemed illogical all of the time...hence, your NECESSARY condition is just a distraction...all you need to know to answer the question is that it is for sure God and he has asked you to do something that seems absurd and illogical.

Until you can explain how you can know that God wants you to kill your husband without that idea p***ing through your mind as a thought, the obvious will REMAIN obvious: thinking is a NECESSARY condition of knowing such a thing.

As noted, for the sake of this argument, put yourself into the position of the Israelite who has just found out his wife has committed adultery. What do you do?

Wrong. The question is not about Abraham or the Israelites. Its about ME and YOU and "Sir". etc. We are the ones to whom the question was posed. YOU have made it disturbingly clear that YOU would kill your husband and "Sir" that he would kill his wife, thereby proving that you guys do not know God or his word which explicitly prohibits you from doing what you can only "think" that God wants you to do.

Please stop trying to spin this Brian and just answer the question as posed.

I would not fall for such an obvious fake God.

Was ABraham falling for a "fake God" or the Israelites?

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114390]

So, to you, Billyray's question in the first place started with a false premise because God would obviously not tell someone to kill their spouse. (Do you realize that you changed the word from "kill" to "murder"---another attempt at spin. We have examples in the Bible of God telling the Isrealites to kill the Medianites. We have God telling ABraham to sacrifice Isaac and we have God telling the Isrealites to stone the wife if she is an adulteress...well, please explain your logic here.

First of all, since the original question failed to provide any conditions, we cannot presume any reason why "kill" and "murder" are not completely interchangeable. Yes God told the Israelites to exterminate the Medianites and Abraham to sacrifice Isaac and even the death penalty. Those are clearly defined situations and we know that it was indeed God in each case where, in each case, the specifics were clearly defined. In "Sir's" question, there are no such conditions or definitions. Under the open rubric of his question, it is impossible to distinguish between justified killing (such as self defense) and outright murder.

You are attempting to change the question again--which is that you "know for sure that it is God"--not someone else and not that you "think" it is God.

No, I am trying to get you to explain HOW one would "know" without "thinking". I can only "know" that God's supposed command to kill my wife is righteous and from God if it conforms to the word of God and the conditions of that killing conform to the parameters of His word.

Just asking you to address the question as asked, not what you want it to be.

The question AS asked makes no sense. It ***UMES that God is a murderer asking me to be the hit man. That is a false premise and requires clarification. Can you show me where the Bible tells me that God wants me to kill my wife? Or ...perhaps is that in the Book of Mormon, or the D&C...?

Think of it as an Israelite who just found out that their wife has committed adultery..would you stone her?

That is not the question that was asked. I was asked if I would kill my wife. I am not an Israelite living under the dispensation of the law. If I was an Israelite living under the dispensation of the law, I would be required to stone her because that is clearly in the Word of God and I am presuming that you mean me to be an observant and pious Jew who believes in the Word of God in your revision of the question, but I am not sure that I would. In any event, your revised question is quite different from the original.

The point I made is that those in the Bible were asked to do things that seemed illogical all of the time...hence, your NECESSARY condition is just a distraction...all you need to know to answer the question is that it is for sure God and he has asked you to do something that seems absurd and illogical.

No, not because it seems absurd and illogical but because the Word of God clearly and explicitly tells me to LOVE my wife and sacrifice myself for her as Christ gave himself for the church. I don't see how killing my wife amounts to loving her. If you can tell me how I can love my wife by killing her, go ahead.

As noted, for the sake of this argument, put yourself into the position of the Israelite who has just found out his wife has committed adultery. What do you do?

Asked and answered.

Please stop trying to spin this Brian and just answer the question as posed.

The question as posed is fallacious. But YOU fell for it. You fell for it because you lack knowledge of God and his word and therefore you have no discernment and are easily fooled by Satan.

Was ABraham falling for a "fake God" or the Israelites?

Nope.

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

That is not the question that was asked. I was asked if I would kill my wife. I am not an Israelite living under the dispensation of the law. If I was an Israelite living under the dispensation of the law, I would be required to stone her because that is clearly in the Word of God and I am presuming that you mean me to be an observant and pious Jew who believes in the Word of God in your revision of the question, but I am not sure that I would. In any event, your revised question is quite different from the original.

Deep in the recesses of all of Brian's argument's, wading through all of the insults and putdowns, you finally find the answer to the original question. If Brian knew that God was speaking to him and he knew it was for sure God (as the Israelites did in the OT) then he would be "required to" kill his wife---BUT HE IS NOT SURE THAT HE WOULD.

I guess the Israelites took God a little more seriously than Brian does.

[BrianH]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;114410]

Deep in the recesses of all of Brian's argument's, wading through all of the insults and putdowns, you finally find the answer to the original question. If Brian knew that God was speaking to him and he knew it was for sure God (as the Israelites did in the OT) then he would be "required to" kill his wife---BUT HE IS NOT SURE THAT HE WOULD.

I guess the Israelites took God a little more seriously than Brian does.

First of all, pointing out YOUR fallacies and false claims is not a "put down" it is a statement of the obvious. You put yourself down when you retreat behind irrational, contradictory and fallacious statements and false accusations and deliberate misrepresentations as you just did right here in the post to which I am now responding.

Secondly, had you been paying attention to my posts you would have noted that I provided a direct answer to the original question in my very first response. Your claim here is just another false ***ertion based either on a deliberate effort to deceive, or simply ignoranc e of the facts so easily observe by anyone who can read.

Finally, you have once again misrepresented my answer. The portions of my answer that you deceptively p****d out made my answer clear. But the portions you then re-***embled with the limp spittle of your own desperate rhetorical needs is rather different from what I actually said. Your putting words in my mouth is a deliberate effort to deceive, BigJ. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did you think I would not know what I wrote?

One need not wonder why you stoop to such blatantly obvious deceptive rhetorical tactics, Julie. Its obvious that you think you can fool someone with them. You can't. Well ...maybe you can fool some Mormons, including yourself.

Meanwhile I still await your explanation of how you think I can "know" that God has commanded to kill my wife without that idea being in my mind as a THOUGHT, where ONLY THOUGHTS can exist.

As for your answer, you have clearly demonstrated one of the PROFOUND differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity. You would kill your own husband thinking God told you to do so. Christians, on the other hand, absent any extraordinary circumstances would have instantl;y known that any such command could not even possibly have come from God. You lack discernment because you lack knowledge of the Word of God and you do not know the Spirit of God.

In short, as is always so clear, you have been deceived, mistaking Satan for God. He's gotcha.

-BH

.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BrianH

Finally, you have once again misrepresented my answer. The portions of my answer that you deceptively p****d out made my answer clear. But the portions you then re-***embled with the limp spittle of your own desperate rhetorical needs is rather different from what I actually said. Your putting words in my mouth is a deliberate effort to deceive, BigJ. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did you think I would not know what I wrote?

I understand what you wrote...you want to separate the God from the OT from the God of today. I tried to put you into their circumstance so that I could see what you would do in that cirucmstance because I understood that in that circumstance, you would understand it was God who spoke and you would also have the circumstance in which the law required the death of the adulteress. You finally gave an answer to that circumstance. You kept asking HOW I would know it was God, but that was not the question. The question was..what would you do if you were sure it was God. Hence, I gave an exact example of the Israelites who were sure it was God and asked you to reply. It is amazing what it took to get you to answer the question when all of your accusations were removed.

Okay, that said, here you have an Israelite who, under the law, is required to kill their wife in this circumstance. You said you are not sure you would do it. I am not sure either because even though the law required it ,I would have to have more ***urance than that. So, I would pray about it.

This is the same circumstance that Abraham faced when he sent Haggar out into the desert (a sure death for her and his son). What did Abraham do? He prayed about it and got an answer to indeed send Haggar out. Did Abraham receive an answer that God would take care of her? I don't know, very likely, but really, that is not told in the story.

But Brian, your ***ertion as to who God is and what he would say or not say is not as concrete as you believe. We have instances, not a few, where God makes it clear that HE is to be listened to and that His ways is not our ways. I certainly wouldn't support a law today that said we should stone adulterers.

One need not wonder why you stoop to such blatantly obvious deceptive rhetorical tactics, Julie. Its obvious that you think you can fool someone with them. You can't. Well ...maybe you can fool some Mormons, including yourself.

Brian, this type of tactic is something you use all of the time. When you want an answer to a question---any answer we give will not suffice...you say things such as "irrelevant" etc. So, to all of your premises of the question, I saw them as irrelevant. I wanted to know what you would do if YOU for sure knew it was from God. Hence, I just gave you the circumstance of the Israelite who knew and also had been given a circumstance in which to do just that.

Meanwhile I still await your explanation of how you think I can "know" that God has commanded to kill my wife without that idea being in my mind as a THOUGHT, where ONLY THOUGHTS can exist.

Let's say that God comes to you in person...parts the Red Sea, performs other miracles, etc. etc. as he did with Moses--would that be enough to convince you it was God speaking to you. Let's say it is not an thought, as God is speaking in a loud voice to you as He did with Abraham or Moses. Let's say that when He comes, He shows you the prints in His hands and feet and makes sure that you know he is the resurrected Lord. YOu never had a thought about it before and this from God is absolutely repulsive to you (as it would be for me as well)..then what---do you ignore Him?

As for your answer, you have clearly demonstrated one of the PROFOUND differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity. You would kill your own husband thinking God told you to do so.

Your spin again...not thinking..."know for sure"---you keep wanting to change this to fit what you hope we asked rather than what we really asked.

Christians, on the other hand, absent any extraordinary circumstances would have instantl;y known that any such command could not even possibly have come from God.

Why didn't the Israelites know?