dberrie----Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?
Does that include all spirits also?
dberrie----Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?
Originally Posted by Billyray View Post---All of God's creation.
dberrie---Does that include all spirits also?
Oh? So you believe that the "Father" here in Ephesians is Jesus Christ?
Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all,"
Who is the "one Lord" here?
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all,"
More boundary maintenance to a faith alone theology.
Ephesians does not state that Jesus was the God and Father of all--that points to God the Father--not Jesus Christ:
St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
If your postulation that the "one God and Father of all" is a reference to Christ--then that is a direct contradiction to what Christ declared.
The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:
Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"
Is that some spirits--or all spirits?
Do you deny that God is the the Father of all? Do you deny that Jesus is called the Mighty God the Everlasting Father? Why can't the same thing be said of Him at all time is all meaning? You are again taking the word out of context of the complete Biblical text.. Do you also deny the context that Jesus is God? That He created ALL thing both visible and invisible? What is there about the Bible you will not deny in your false doctrines? IHS jimMore boundary maintenance to a faith alone theology.
Ephesians does not state that Jesus was the God and Father of all--that points to God the Father--not Jesus Christ:
St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
If your postulation that the "one God and Father of all" is a reference to Christ--then that is a direct contradiction to what Christ declared.
The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:
Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"
Is that some spirits--or all spirits?
I have pointed out to berry that text out of context is pretext, but he insists on posting pretext anyway. Some people NEVER learn ANYTHING.Do you deny that God is the the Father of all? Do you deny that Jesus is called the Mighty God the Everlasting Father? Why can't the same thing be said of Him at all time is all meaning? You are again taking the word out of context of the complete Biblical text.. Do you also deny the context that Jesus is God? That He created ALL thing both visible and invisible? What is there about the Bible you will not deny in your false doctrines? IHS jim
I think it's more a matter of bully pride than anything. There's no way DBerrie does not understand faith alone doctrine, or that the Bible clearly teaches that salvation is NOT by works. The best way to make a Mormon troll disappear is to quote contradicting Mormon "scriptures" (and I use that term loosely) and ask them to explain the contradiction. But notice they will never do that, because they simply can't. Instead DBerrie attempts to turn the tables on us, but he has to confound the truth to do that.
Everything about Mormonism is a lie and DBerrie is probably tired of being made a complete fool of trying to defend those lies. So he lashes out in hatred and anger with dishonest and false arguments. And by doing so, in his mind he thinks he has won. Even though everyone else knows better. Does anyone remember Bert from the 80's sit-com, SOAP? When Bert was confronted with something he was embarr***ed for, he would wave his hands and snap his fingers and then ***ume that he would become invisible and no one could see him. Mormons as much as do that same thing when confronted with the truth about their religion. They disappear.
DBerrie is only good at taking Scriptures out of context and setting up straw men arguments that present fake inconsistencies designed to cause the Bible to line up with false Mormon doctrines, but that's only because he doesn't have a clue how to explain away the very real problems with his own false religion, so he ignores them. That's why DBerrie never tries to defend Mormonism when we point out all of the glaring inconsistencies with his false religion. Instead he attempts to focus the attention away from that reality, to his intentionally dishonest doctrinal arguments against the truth of the Bible. We don't have to go out of our way to contrive anything to prove Mormonism is a false religion, all we need is facts, but DBerrie must spin falsehoods and lies in an attempt to prove his false arguments.
Bullies are just cowards in reality. DBerrie is probably some mush-brained teenager living in his mothers basement. If not, then he sure has us fooled.
Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.
Cite, please. Please give any scripture that specifically gives Jesus Christ as the Father of spirits.
There is but one specific designation of the Father of spirits--and that is God the Father.
And the spirits were Fathered before they were believers. The spirit came first.
So--if Jesus Christ created all spirits--then could you explain the explanation of Christ:
John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
If that is true--then Christ was not the Father of those spirits--but His God and Father was--God the Father.
And if this scripture is true--then none of the spirits were Fathered by Christ:
Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
If Christ deferred to His God and Father as the Father of Himself and His brethren--then that means that at least some of the spirits He was not the Father of.
And as Ephesians states that God the Father was the Father of all--that puts all the spirits as being Fathered by God the Father. Jesus Christ is exempted from any responsibility there, if that is true, seeing that Christ has already stated that both He and His brethren were Fathered by His God and Father.
That means the "one God and Father of all" must be a ***le to God the Father only.
Colossians 1:16*For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
John 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Obviously--some things were not made. For example--Christ did not make His God and Father. That is a power in heaven--right?
Neither did He made the spirits:
John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
If Christ had a God and Father that was the same God and Father of men--then Christ did not make them either.
But the scriptures do identify who did Father the spirits:
Hebrews 12:9----King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Right Jesus did not make the Father because the single God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) have been eternally God. But I ***ume that you believe that Jesus has made everything both visible and invisible. Right?