It is not "planned out", Billy. It is known how you will live it. There is a difference.
It is not "planned out", Billy. It is known how you will live it. There is a difference.
Yes, I have a chance to change that, because God is in the ever present NOW.
But, if I've already chosen, why would I change it?
You are mistaking God's knowing as, somehow, limiting our free will. That's simply not the case.
If you can change that then you must believe what LDS scholars believe that God is not omniscient.
http://maxwellins***ute.byu.edu//pub...226456-8-2.pdf
'. . .Suppose that God has always believed that I will rob a 7–Eleven at a certain time t. My refraining from robbing the 7–Eleven at time t certainly entails that God has not always believed that I will rob at t. Because God has always believed that I will rob the 7–Eleven at t, I cannot have the power to refrain from robbing, since this power would entail power to change God’s past beliefs. No person has the power to alter the past. Yet to be free with respect to whether I rob, I must have power to refrain from robbing the 7–Eleven at t. It follows that either God does not have foreknowledge or I am not free. . ."
Sure they do. Wayne Grudem holds the reformed position and he certainly teaches that man has a choice and that he is responsible for that choice. He also teaches that if a person is not elect his choice will be to reject Christ. This is also the position that is taught in the Bible.
Wikipedia Calvinism
"Total depravity," also called "total inability," ***erts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin. People are not by nature inclined to love God but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God. Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures"
I have been on the road for the last 2 weeks....anything new here?
Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally UNABLE to choose to follow GodWikipedia Calvinism
"Total depravity," also called "total inability," ***erts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin. People are not by nature inclined to love God but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God. Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures"
Billyray--where do you believe their natures come from?Wikipedia Calvinism
"Total depravity," also called "total inability," ***erts that as a consequence of the fall of man into sin, every person is enslaved to sin. People are not by nature inclined to love God but rather to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God. Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures"
Billyray--all men were condemned due to the Fall. That fell on all men up to the Atonement.
All men were Redeemed due to the Atonement--one cannot differentiate one man from another min either of those events--if a nature fell on one man--it fell on them all. The Atonement was to Redeemed all men from the condemnation of the Fall--not just a few. You can't maintain your stance if that is true:
Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Define justification one more time for me.
All men were Redeemed due to the Atonement--one cannot differentiate one man from another min either of those events--if a nature fell on one man--it fell on them all. The Atonement was to Redeemed all men from the condemnation of the Fall--not just a few. You can't maintain your stance if that is true:
Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
You've got the cart before the horse, Billy. It says that men are unwilling to choose God, because of their nature (total depravity), which causes them to be UNABLE to choose God.
Their condition, which is total depravity, completely mired in the flesh, causes them to be UNABLE to choose God of their own free will.
Again why is that? because they are unwilling to do soYou've got the cart before the horse, Billy. It says that men are unwilling to choose God, because of their nature (total depravity), which causes them to be UNABLE to choose God.
Their condition, which is total depravity, completely mired in the flesh, causes them to be UNABLE to choose God of their own free will.
Libby, the Bible teaches that we all have a choice to either accept Christ or reject Him and we are responsible for that choice. This is consistent with other Calvinists that I have heard speak on this matter such as Wayne Grudem who holds the Reformed position.
Libby why do you believe the Arminian position is the correct one with respect to election rather than the Calvinist position?
I'm done with you, Billy.
Off your carousel that goes in both directions, depending on what you are trying to prove.
Testimonies from Christians:
http://www.simplebiblestudies.com/GAbabiesin.htmWhen men speak of the "age of accountability", they refer to that time when men become accountable to God because of sin. This accountability is based upon knowledge. The tree forbidden by God was a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Babies do not possess that knowledge. They have no shame in nakedness and they do not fear God. (This is also true of those who have the mind of a child.) Without the knowledge of right and wrong, there is no accountability before God.
Romans 10:9-10 says, "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." If babies sin, how can they fulfill Romans 10:9-10? They cannot confess with their mouth and believe in their heart what they do not understand. Their hearts cannot believe righteousness without knowledge and their mouths cannot make confession unto salvation. To baptize a baby is no more than getting the head wet (infant baptism is not even baptism=immersion). Babies do not sin.
By Kent Heaton
http://www.topicalbiblestudies.com/original-sin.php
The Arminian view on this (Arminians are Christians, right?)
http://jesusalive.cc/ques156.htmThe other view (held primarily by Armenians, anabaptists, and a number of other
Christan religions) teaches that we are not born as sinners per se, but rather, we are born with a "sin nature." In other words, man is not forced to sin because
he has the "sin gene" p***ed on to him from Adam, but instead, he has the "free will"
choice to sin or not. He is also able to believe in God (Jn 3:16,18,36)(Jn 1:12)
(Eph 1:13)(Heb 11:6)(Jn 8:24), repent (Acts 3:19)(2 Cor 7:10)(Lk 13:3,5)(Mt 4:17)
(Acts 11:18)(Mk 1:15), and call upon the Lord (Rom 10:12-14)(Acts 2:21) in order to
be saved without first being regenerated.
In other words, Billy is trying to claim that these people, who are accepted as Christians, by most Calvinists, as well as the rest of the Body of Christ, and who teach and believe, just as I have, that babies do not sin, but possess a "sin nature", are "false teachers". Is that right, Billy? This Arminian belief makes all Arminians "false teachers"?
Last edited by Libby; 05-05-2013 at 10:40 PM.
It is not just this belief but many beliefs that you hold along with the fact that you reject sections of scripture that is not consistent with being a Christian. Along with the fact that your main purposisoniazid this board seems to be to sew discord among fellow Christians rather than discuss Mormonism which is the focus of this board.
In other words, Billy is trying to claim that these people, who are accepted as Christians, by most Calvinists, as well as the rest of the Body of Christ, and who teach and believe, just as I have, that babies do not sin, but possess a "sin nature", are "false teachers". Is that right, Billy? This Arminian belief makes all Arminians "false teachers"?