Originally Posted by
nrajeffreturns
When I compare this forum with the anti-LDS forum at C@$m, I see similarities and differences.
A Similarity: Both sites have pro-LDS and anti-LDS trying to shoot holes in the other side's claims.
One big difference I see is that here, both sides can make their case without getting handicapped by the double-standard-ridden Infraction Nazis, aka Carm's "Moderator 18" and "4Him."
Apparently at Carm, they are afraid of a fair fight between the pro- and anti- LDS.
Here, both sides can freely make their arguments, and may the best argument win, regardless which side made it. I like that a lot.
At Carm, one has to put up with being banned by the terrible moderating for doing nothing wrong, while seeing the other side get off with no such punishment, such as this: (Note that Martureo's asking me whether I sin isn't slammed for being off topic, and his insults are condoned)
Quote Originally Posted by martureo
Since you just quoted Romans chapter 6, I'm getting the feeling that you've never actually read Romans all the way through.
You shouldn't trust your feelings. At least that's what a lot of your pals keep saying.
If you have, maybe you'd better slow down.
I can go as slowly as you need to.
By whom/what were believers made righteous?
Irrelevant who MADE them righteous. Either they are righteous, or they aren't. You seem to have just conceded that. If someone gives you immortality by MAKING you immortal, then by what stretch of logic would you conclude that it's not REALLY yours, it's just God's immortality and "there are none immortal, no not one" ? Try to be consistent. It's good for the soul.
Do you not understand that we cannot both be right? Either I am misreading Romans or you are.
Then, given that dichotomy, my vote is that you are the one who is misreading it.
And who does righteousness?
Lots of people. Everyone who gets eternal life is REQUIRED to do works of righteousness, and to become righteous, even as He is righteous. Even you aren't exempt from that. Hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock.
I wonder, do you sin?
Sometimes. But that doesn't prevent me from doing some of the good works that Jesus commands of anyone who wants to be His disciple. Nor does it prevent me from obeying His commandment to repent. Nor does it preclude me from attaining, "through Christ who strengthens me," righteousness.
That's the problem with Calvinism: It pays lip service to Bible verses that clearly teach that eternal life is conditioned on righteousness, but it spends most of its time conning people into thinking that righteousness is an impossible commandment and should be avoided like the plague.