Angels

[James Banta]

Just what are these beings? Why are they there? What can they do?

What are they? The Bible tell us that they are spiritual beings that were created to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:7, 13-14). Again we are taught that angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). Angels are spiritual beings. Humans are primarily physical beings, but with a spiritual aspect.

Why are they there? The greatest thing we can learn from the holy angels is their instant, unquestioning obedience to God’s commands. They praise God (Psalm 148:1-2; Isaiah 6:3). They worship God (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-13). They rejoice in what God does (*** 38:6-7).

What do angels do? They serve God (Psalm 103:20; Revelation 22:9). They appear before God (*** 1:6; 2:1). They are instruments of God's judgments (Revelation 7:1; 8:2). They bring answers to prayer (Acts 12:5-10). They observe Christian order, work, and suffering (1 Corinthians 4:9; 11:10; Ephesians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:12). They encourage in times of danger (Acts 27:23-24). They care for the righteous at the time of death (Luke 16:22).

No where in all the Bible are angels described as dead or resurrected human beings. Never are they shown to be sexual beings. They a a totally different creation from that of mankind.

One important Biblical FACT to remember as to our ***ociation and everlasting lives with the Lord is that we will continue in our love. Along with Faith and Hope, Love continues when all the other spiritual gifts of God are done away But LOVE is the greatest of all the gifts of God (1Corinthians 13:13).. Marriage is not important, it is not shown to be one of the things angels do. What they can and continue to do is LOVE. What we can continue to do is LOVE.. For we will be like the angels in heaven. Marriage is not spoken of as anything angels do.. Mormons are looking at the wording of Matthew 22:30 as if it were saying "If you aren't married before death you can be married afterward". I see it as saying that we won't be married any more than the angels in heaven are married.. We will be like them in that attribute. We won't hold our loved ones in less strong ties than we have now. But the sexual part of our existence ends at our death. IHS jim

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Just what are these beings? Why are they there? What can they do?

What are they? The Bible tell us that they are spiritual beings that were created to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:7, 13-14). Again we are taught that angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). Angels are spiritual beings. Humans are primarily physical beings, but with a spiritual aspect.

IHS jim

How do the two "spirits" lay hands on Lot and pull him back into his house when he offered his daughters so evil men did not violate them, the same two who came to Abraham. Yes some angels are spirits, other are physical being. I have children...they call that pro-creation. God has children, begotten sons and daughters of God who are spiritual beings. There is a reason Christ is refereed too as the "only begotten of the father after the manner of the flesh.

Also who were the angels who came to Christ in the Garden to minister to him and strengthen him; why would God need something he created to help him? Because as Christ said...he has a Father and a God. Why do people ignore this is the Bible, or John 17, where Christ explains what one means when it comes to the relationship between God and all believers? It is cowardice to conflict with Nicene Creed. But hey when men write a document saying, if you are to have salvation one must think upon the Trinity and then kill those who oppose over hundreds of years...why wouldn't people be afraid?

[James Banta]

[Pa Pa;148344]How do the two "spirits" lay hands on Lot and pull him back into his house when he offered his daughters so evil men did not violate them, the same two who came to Abraham. Yes some angels are spirits, other are physical being. I have children...they call that pro-creation. God has children, begotten sons and daughters of God who are spiritual beings. There is a reason Christ is refereed too as the "only begotten of the father after the manner of the flesh.

The angels could do this the same way the invisible God put His hand on Elijah (1Kings 1:46). That was by the power of His word though authority of His will.. God is in the creation business not the sex business. Jesus is the ONLY begotten of God and even that was accomplished through The Person of the Holy Spirit.. Even in the doctrine of Mormonism the Holy Spirit is not believed to be a physical Person. (D&C 130:22).. Jesus throughout His entire mortal ministry was weaken by His flesh. He had thirst, He had hunger, I was pleasured with fine oils and the touch of others as Mary anointed Him.. In this weak flesh why would His creation be with held from offering Him comfort as His flesh was in need?

Just where do I or any Christian disagree with John 17? I won't accuse you of cowardice for not disagreeing with mormonism and agreeing with the Bible that teaches that there is ONE God.. So how is a believer one with Jesus as He is one with the Father? We become one is our mind and heart.. Yes David was called a Man after the Lord's own heart.. He was therefor one in heart with God.. We can be one with God iin many of His attributes but never in His divinity.. His words makes it clear that no other Gods will be formed at any time.. That He and He only is God.. Papa it all to be true, not just your proof texts. If you think you have a contradiction it is because you are not understanding the p***ages that you think are in conflict. You have to find a meaning that allows all His word to be true.. Therefore while we are Joint heirs with Jesus, While we will be one with Jesus as He is one with the Father we will never become a God as He is God.. We will share His glory but not the Godhood that is held by the Persons the Bible calls God. The Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.. If you deny the Trinity you deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit are God.. And because the Bible teaches that they are God you have to deny the Bible. If you deny the Bible you deny the Holy Spirit and that is a sin you don't want to commit.. In doing that you do need to be afraid. Not of men but of God. IHS jim


Also who were the angels who came to Christ in the Garden to minister to him and strengthen him; why would God need something he created to help him? Because as Christ said...he has a Father and a God. Why do people ignore this is the Bible, or John 17, where Christ explains what one means when it comes to the relationship between God and all believers? It is cowardice to conflict with Nicene Creed. But hey when men write a document saying, if you are to have salvation one must think upon the Trinity and then kill those who oppose over hundreds of years...why wouldn't people be afraid?[/QUOTE]

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Just what are these beings? Why are they there? What can they do?

What are they? The Bible tell us that they are spiritual beings that were created to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:7, 13-14). Again we are taught that angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

So--tell us--who do you identify this Angel as?


Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)


16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--tell us--who do you identify this Angel as?


Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)


16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

The Angel in verse 16 is referring to God.

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

The angels could do this the same way the invisible God put His hand on Elijah (1Kings 1:46). That was by the power of His word though authority of His will.. God is in the creation business not the sex business. ]

What a pathetic answer, who suggested God had sex, but do you know what God's first commandment was ever? Mary was a Virgin, but half Christ DNA came from God. Also I do not care about the lack of understanding of people who think they know the Bible...God is a Spiritual being, just as we are. The invisible God applies to the fact that in 99.99999999999% of every time God spoke to man...it was Christ who appeared to man, although the Bible plainly tells that some have seen the Father. Even if you believe Christ is "one" God, then you believe this one God has a body.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
Just what are these beings? Why are they there? What can they do?

What are they? The Bible tell us that they are spiritual beings that were created to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:7, 13-14). Again we are taught that angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---So--tell us--who do you identify this Angel as?

Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

Originally Posted by Billyray

The Angel in verse 16 is referring to God.

Specifically--Jesus Christ, it seems. How does that compare to Jame's statement above?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

What a pathetic answer, who suggested God had sex, but do you know what God's first commandment was ever? Mary was a Virgin, but half Christ DNA came from God. Also I do not care about the lack of understanding of people who think they know the Bible...God is a Spiritual being, just as we are. The invisible God applies to the fact that in 99.99999999999% of every time God spoke to man...it was Christ who appeared to man, although the Bible plainly tells that some have seen the Father. Even if you believe Christ is "one" God, then you believe this one God has a body.

It takes two to tango, or something. i don't think sex is pathetic, unless, hum that's another story.
However it was your LDSinc. second manhead incharge, the great prophet of all times Brigham Young who suggested sex between your mormon god and Mary. There is nothing to say from the Holy Bible that God Elohim's DNA was placed upon or within Mary. The Holy Bible only tells us she was overcomed by the Holy Ghost.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

It takes two to tango, or something. i don't think sex is pathetic, unless, hum that's another story.
However it was your LDSinc. second manhead incharge, the great prophet of all times Brigham Young who suggested sex between your mormon god and Mary. There is nothing to say from the Holy Bible that God Elohim's DNA was placed upon or within Mary. The Holy Bible only tells us she was overcomed by the Holy Ghost.

I can't say that I have ever seen the term "overcomed" in the Bible.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I can't say that I have ever seen the term "overcomed" in the Bible.

That is the way a Pentacostal would say it. However Brigham Young put it in a sexual way or by natural way of making woppie.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Specifically--Jesus Christ, it seems. How does that compare to Jame's statement above?

What James said is true "God created the angels, just as He created humanity" and humanity is distinct from the angles. In the verse that you quoted this is referring to God himself not His created beings i.e. angels or humans.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What James said is true "God created the angels, just as He created humanity" and humanity is distinct from the angles. In the verse that you quoted this is referring to God himself not His created beings i.e. angels or humans.

I have six little angels who look more like thier gandmother than their papa, thank God!

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

It takes two to tango, or something. i don't think sex is pathetic, unless, hum that's another story.
However it was your LDSinc. second manhead incharge, the great prophet of all times Brigham Young who suggested sex between your mormon god and Mary. There is nothing to say from the Holy Bible that God Elohim's DNA was placed upon or within Mary. The Holy Bible only tells us she was overcomed by the Holy Ghost.

In his day men only knew one way people were begotten, in our day we know it can be done without intercourse...God knew this before all things. Not to mention "Mormon Doctrine" whom everyone hates made it clear that Mary was a virgin, and that any Church who believed otherwise was "totally apostate and false". It was never our doctrine and BY's statement was never made canon and never will, nor the King Follet Discourse. None of these things will ever become canonized scripture. Ever noticed that the RLDS Prophets each felt the need to add to the D&C, yet our Prophets have only added two sections in 193 years...they don't let their egos enter in to it. If they were self proclaimed Prophets, each would feel the need to do so, to justify their "Prophethood".

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

In his day men only knew one way people were begotten, in our day we know it can be done without intercourse...God knew this before all things.

So is your way to try and get out from under what your LDS leaders have said because we both know what they said was incorrect?

[James Banta]

[Pa Pa;148359]What a pathetic answer, who suggested God had sex

,

I like the way you put that "suggested".. You suggested just that when you said "I have children...they call that pro-creation. God has children, begotten sons and daughters of God who are spiritual beings."

but do you know what God's first commandment was ever?

Of course I do..

Mary was a Virgin, but half Christ DNA came from God.

I disagree with that.. I say all the Humanity of Jesus came from His mother.. All Of His divine nature came from God.. He was therefore fully Man and Fully God (John 1:1,14)

Also I do not care about the lack of understanding of people who think they know the Bible...

The only difference we have there is I do care about their lack of understanding. We are told that "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent John 17:3".. And you tell me that you don't care about eternal life for your fellow man? Where is your zeal for truth in such a statement?

God is a Spiritual being, just as we are. The invisible God applies to the fact that in 99.99999999999% of every time God spoke to man...it was Christ who appeared to man, although the Bible plainly tells that some have seen the Father. Even if you believe Christ is "one" God, then you believe this one God has a body.

You call my answer pathetic when I show that God can lay His hand on a man and then cause angels to lay their hand on men as well, and them you dare to compare the Spirit of God to that of a man? God IS SPIRIT (John 4:24). Jesus later told us the nature of a spirit and compared to the flesh "A spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as you see I have (Luke 24:39).. According to the statements of the Lord Jesus The Father is Spirit and being such hasn't a body of flesh and bone..

Again in the First Vision Testimonies of Joseph Smith the oldest one (1834), the one in His own handwriting doesn't mention the Father at all. It was the later version of this event (1843) The Father's presence was "recalled". Then what was His message? He introduced Jesus, that was all.. In Paul Vision Jesus introduced Himself. In that first version what Smith recorded was Jesus introducing Himself.. Smith added the most important Person in the universe seemed to be added to the text as an after thought.. The Father is no once revealed to men as more than a Spirit is any p***age of scripture.. This doctrine of God being a being a exalted man with a physical body is an invention of Joseph Smith..

The Flesh that Jesus took upon Himself is NOT GOD.. The person who has filled that shell is the eternal God.. It is that Person that is one God with the Father, and the Holy Spirit..And why did he take on that body? To show us the way to eternal life.. So you have said that the Father has appeared to man the same way Smith said He appeared to him.. Show me in the scripture where that was done.. Even in the one time I can recall that God spoke to man He was not seen.. The Bible is true as it teaches that "No man seen God at ANY TIME; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)..

If you are so understanding of these doctrines where as I am so lost why is it that my responses are filled with Biblical teachings while yours have nothing to support them but your opinion? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--tell us--who do you identify this Angel as?


Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)


16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

Just by reading verse 15 into the context you can see it is God.. Question, is this one of your hard questions? IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

In his day men only knew one way people were begotten, in our day we know it can be done without intercourse...God knew this before all things. Not to mention "Mormon Doctrine" whom everyone hates made it clear that Mary was a virgin, and that any Church who believed otherwise was "totally apostate and false". It was never our doctrine and BY's statement was never made canon and never will, nor the King Follet Discourse. None of these things will ever become canonized scripture. Ever noticed that the RLDS Prophets each felt the need to add to the D&C, yet our Prophets have only added two sections in 193 years...they don't let their egos enter in to it. If they were self proclaimed Prophets, each would feel the need to do so, to justify their "Prophethood".

In my day too!. 2000 years ago, Natural, meant the same 150 years ago and today. Why else did the LDSinc. change it from the Holy Ghost to the mormon god himself doin the natural with his daughter Mary. No matter how you try and change history you can't change the meaning of the word Natural. the same way you and I were brought into this world. Wait a minute, My MOM would NEVER?

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So is your way to try and get out from under what your LDS leaders have said because we both know what they said was incorrect?

If is canonized scripture it is worthy of debate, not everything a Prophet says is not scripture. You are they to get out from under, the whole truth.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

If is canonized scripture it is worthy of debate, not everything a Prophet says is not scripture. You are they to get out from under, the whole truth.

So you can't trust a thing that you prophets have said outside the Standard Works? What good are they since you can't trust them.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta View Post---Just what are these beings? Why are they there? What can they do?

What are they? The Bible tell us that they are spiritual beings that were created to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:7, 13-14). Again we are taught that angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---So--tell us--who do you identify this Angel as?


Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Just by reading verse 15 into the context you can see it is God.. Question, is this one of your hard questions? IHS jim

The hard questions begin with asking you how does the fact the Angel spoken of in Genesis48--which is identified as Jesus Christ--- compare with your above statement---Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The hard questions begin with asking you how does the fact the Angel spoken of in Genesis48--which is identified as Jesus Christ--- compare with your above statement---Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

Is not the flesh of Jesus created by God? Is Jesus God? Is God timeless? Then to use the foreknowledge of God the verse is still perfect as it is written.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---The hard questions begin with asking you how does the fact the Angel spoken of in Genesis48--which is identified as Jesus Christ--- compare with your above statement---Jame's Quote---Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

Originally Posted by James Banta

Is not the flesh of Jesus created by God?

The "Angel" of Genesis48:16 was long before the mortal Christ.

Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

Again--how does Genesis48:16 being Christ Himself--as an Angel--not a mortal--compare with your statement:

Jame's Quote---Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Jame's Quote---Angels will never become, and never were, human beings. God created the angels, just as He created humanity.

God did create the angels and God is not a created being/angel.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

God did create the angels and God is not a created being/angel.

But you were to one who identified the "Angel" of Genesis48:16 as God--right?

Billyray---What James said is true "God created the angels, just as He created humanity" and humanity is distinct from the angles. In the verse that you quoted this is referring to God himself not His created beings i.e. angels or humans.

Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But you were to one who identified the "Angel" of Genesis48:16 as God--right?

That is correct but God is not a created being/angel. Rather God created humans and angels.