Thinking of Joining the Mormons? Here's Why Mormons Leave the LDS!

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

You are gullible that you probably believe that, especially given your penchant for conspiracy theories.

But, oddly enough, James Banta wasn't a Mormon anymore when he scoped out a woman to cheat on his wife with.

Which of the two scenerios above is worse?

OH, and there has never been any Mormon who has been unfaithful to their spouse? Give me a break! There are none righteous, no NOT ONE! What of all the disgusting Scout Leaders who have molested young boys? And the Bishops who have protected those pedophiles? Come down off your high horse since it's not good to throw stones when one lives in a gl*** house!! You are overly obsessed with my family aren't you along with people's ages too. Hmmmm, have you thought about getting some professional help?
And let's not forget that it is YOUR church that claims to be the "Only True Church" but so many certainly don't live it's teachings. Don't go about claiming you have the truth but fail to live it. Why do so many LDS women have to take anti-anxiety meds or anti-depressants? Because the pressure put upon them by their husbands, Bishops and even your prophet is more then they can bear. It' hard enough to be a mother, and wife and then for many to have to work outside the home and be expected to be perfect. I feel very sorry for those trodden down women. Jesus told us to, "come unto me ye who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt. 11:28) Having Christ in your heart and life, no one should feel pressure, no one should worry for He will walk with us, will carry our burdens for he promised he would never leave us, nor forsake us.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by neverending

OH, and there has never been any Mormon who has been unfaithful to their spouse? Give me a break! There are none righteous, no NOT ONE! What of all the disgusting Scout Leaders who have molested young boys? And the Bishops who have protected those pedophiles? Come down off your high horse since it's not good to throw stones when one lives in a gl*** house!! You are overly obsessed with my family aren't you along with people's ages too. Hmmmm, have you thought about getting some professional help?
And let's not forget that it is YOUR church that claims to be the "Only True Church" but so many certainly don't live it's teachings. Don't go about claiming you have the truth but fail to live it. Why do so many LDS women have to take anti-anxiety meds or anti-depressants? Because the pressure put upon them by their husbands, Bishops and even your prophet is more then they can bear. It' hard enough to be a mother, and wife and then for many to have to work outside the home and be expected to be perfect. I feel very sorry for those trodden down women. Jesus told us to, "come unto me ye who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt. 11:28) Having Christ in your heart and life, no one should feel pressure, no one should worry for He will walk with us, will carry our burdens for he promised he would never leave us, nor forsake us.

Why is it that so many LDS don't believe in repentance? Why is it when sin comes into our life that they demand that we hold onto it forever? The Bible tell us that God removes our sin as far as the west is from the east (Psalm 103:12).. How is it that any man can stick it back on me or anyone else? Once it has been taken to Jesus, He replaces it with His righteousness.. Show sir as I have he still wishes to serve the accuser of the brothern and hold up the sin sign over those Jesus died to cleanse.. That is evil and a denial of the Lord Jesus and His work for our salvation.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Why is it that so many LDS don't believe in repentance?

We all believe in it, as far as I know. Can you name 10 who don't?
What some of us don't like, is antis who are hypocrites. If one of them attacks us for some supposed failures of some of our members once long ago, then maybe it's the anti who doesn't believe in forgiveness.

He just can't let this alleged sin of the LDS go. He brings it up, even decades later, and uses it as a lame attempt to attack present-day LDS in a forum--LDS who had nothing to do with the supposed bad treatment of once upon a time.

When that happens, then it's human nature to ask him why he's railing about other people's inability to forgive, when he himself has apparent trouble in that department.

Why is it when sin comes into our life that they demand that we hold onto it forever?

Jim, don't hold on forever to those alleged sins of those allegedly mean LDS from long ago. It's not good for your spirit to make that bitterness and anger ferment for decades.

Forgive those LDS. Forgive Joseph Smith. And then God will forgive you.


Luke 11:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 ‘And forgive us our sins,
For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149957]We all believe in it, as far as I know. Can you name 10 who don't?

I have discussed this with only three of you.. I don't go around telling everyone I meet about my sin.. But those that know about it, the three of you here on WM, want to brand me with a scarlet letter for all time.. You Sir, and Julie.. As far as I know you are the only three mormons that know about it.. And you don't believe that repentance of that terrible sin is possible, at least not for me..

What some of us don't like, is antis who are hypocrites. If one of them attacks us for some supposed failures of some of our members once long ago, then maybe it's the anti who doesn't believe in forgiveness.

We believe in forgiveness to anyone that will confess their sins and take them to Jesus. I have don e this with mine and yet I am still held up as a sinner in the minds of many LDS here.. When a sin is continued you will not forgive it but here you are demanding that I (we) do forgive a sin that continues.. Is it not held and sustained in your standard works that all other churches are wrong? That our creeds are an abomination in God's sight? That our teachers are all corrupt? That we only draw near to God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him? That we teach as our doctrines the commandments of men? That we have a form of godliness, but deny God's power?

Tell you what you drop your attacks against us and we will only point out scriptural differences between mormonism and the Church.. Deal?

Luke 11:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 ‘And forgive us our sins,
For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

I won't hold even those attacks against you personally.. I will hold them against the organization and the person that told the world that Jesus, the God who the Church worships as God. said these terrible things, as guilty of hate, until the day they are removed from the LDS scripture and the hearts of the LDS people.. That seems to be more than fair.. IHS

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have discussed this with only three of you.. I don't go around telling everyone I meet about my sin.. But those that know about it, the three of you here on WM, want to brand me with a scarlet letter for all time.. You Sir, and Julie.. As far as I know you are the only three mormons that know about it.. And you don't believe that repentance of that terrible sin is possible, at least not for me..

Uh, I've known about it for years.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

But those that know about it, the three of you here on WM, want to brand me with a scarlet letter for all time.. You Sir, and Julie..

I think you are mistaken. Speaking for myself, I have no recollection of ever wanting to brand you with a scarlet letter for all time.

As far as I know you are the only three mormons that know about it.. And you don't believe that repentance of that terrible sin is possible, at least not for me..

That is not true. I DO believe that repentance is possible, for you as much as for any of us.

We believe in forgiveness to anyone that will confess their sins and take them to Jesus. I have don e this with mine and yet I am still held up as a sinner in the minds of many LDS here..

What you need to do is follow Jesus' commandment that goes "Treat others the way you would want them to treat you." If you want others to not hold you up as a sinner, then the ball is in your court. You need to stop holding LDS people as sinners, and that includes the church leaders in your old ward, as well as Joseph Smith. If you want to be treated with respect and without accusations of sin you have committed, then you need to treat us that way.

Tell you what you drop your attacks against us and we will only point out scriptural differences between mormonism and the Church.. Deal?

You need to forgive Joseph Smith for the things you feel he said about your church. Did your church even exist in his lifetime? You need to stop making threads attacking members of the LDS church. When you accuse us of sins, you have no right to expect that we will refrain from accusing you of being guilty of sins.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have discussed this with only three of you.. I don't go around telling everyone I meet about my sin.. But those that know about it, the three of you here on WM, want to brand me with a scarlet letter for all time.. You Sir, and Julie.. As far as I know you are the only three mormons that know about it.. And you don't believe that repentance of that terrible sin is possible, at least not for me..

James,

As far as I can tell, one of the things that gets you in trouble is that you struggle to not hold a grudge against people (me, sir, etc.) or things (the church) because you imagine we believe something we don't.

When we discussed your adultery, this was my exact comment:

"Does this lessen my opinion of James--no. Do I feel he can repent? Yes. Do I believe he has fully repented? I believe that he believes he has---but I also know that it takes an awful lot of humility to sit before one who has authority from God to judge and to confess your sins and allow them to determine (with revelation) the next steps you must take to satisfy every level of repentence.

Do I believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ to wash away such a sin---absolutely! Do I believe James is going to hell. No.

You see, I have far less judgement of James than he has of me. Call me evil if you want, but I am just learning a little deeper what is happening with James. Truly, he has my comp***ion."

I even left in my spelling errors.

Truly, to come back in after so much time and find your griping about this, my only thought was--the gentleman doth protest too much.

And really James---how many times did we discuss this? Once, twice? I don't believe this has been much of a topic.

[neverending]

Julie,
No, you've not been here for awhile nor have I. What I can tell you is this...for the past week, Sir has done nothing but make cruel attacks on James (my husband) throwing what happened 14 years ago into his face. I've asked why he would want to cause our family bad feelings and is it right to interfere in someone's family? Is this not something that effects me? If I found it in my heart to forgive, then that is good enough and all that happened is in the past. None of us are perfect, we ALL SIN! ALL of us say or do things we know are wrong. Even if it is a small white lie, that is still a sin. There are no degrees of sinning, for God sees sin as only sin and since He is perfect he can not accept it. As believers, we have been told that if we repent of our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us. 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." God has forgiven James and since his sin effected only myself and has nothing to do with any of you, then this line of talk needs to end! It is cruel and hateful.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

Julie,
No, you've not been here for awhile nor have I. What I can tell you is this...for the past week, Sir has done nothing but make cruel attacks on James (my husband) throwing what happened 14 years ago into his face. I've asked why he would want to cause our family bad feelings and is it right to interfere in someone's family? Is this not something that effects me? If I found it in my heart to forgive, then that is good enough and all that happened is in the past. None of us are perfect, we ALL SIN! ALL of us say or do things we know are wrong. Even if it is a small white lie, that is still a sin. There are no degrees of sinning, for God sees sin as only sin and since He is perfect he can not accept it. As believers, we have been told that if we repent of our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us. 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." God has forgiven James and since his sin effected only myself and has nothing to do with any of you, then this line of talk needs to end! It is cruel and hateful.

The problem is that you and James continues to harp on how the LDS are sinners, that we are all unforgiven, etc. As long as you continue to point out the sins of others, I will remind you of your sins. Seems fair.

Plus, when James preaches that telling your wife you like her dress when you really don't is the same gravity of sin as sleeping with another woman other than your wife, I have to point that out as being quite ludicrous. I mean, let's be real here. If you found out James complimented you on your hair but really hated it, and then he went out and committed adultery, would you be able to forgive him equally? Would one of those sins hurt more then the other? Would the consequences be the same?

[James Banta]

[Sir;150019]The problem is that you and James continues to harp on how the LDS are sinners, that we are all unforgiven, etc. As long as you continue to point out the sins of others, I will remind you of your sins. Seems fair.

At last a statement that has relevance to the subject of the channel.. Does not mormonism teach that there is a step by step procedure for repentance?

1. Recognize we have done wrong.
2. Covenant with the Lord that we will never repeat the sin we have committed and are repenting of. “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.” (D&C 58:43.)
3. Recommit ourselves to living a better life in all phases of the gospel.
4. Make rest itution for the wrongs we have committed by
a.Repenting in prayer to the Lord.
b.Confessing to our bishop, an ordained common judge in Israel and the presiding high priest in our ward.
c.Apologizing to those we have offended.

5. The depth of our repentance must be as deep as the sin we have committed. There is no easy way. It hurts, but it also cleanses.
6. Time is the next element of repentance and rest itution
a.Time to prove to ourselves, to our Lord, to our fellowmen that we have committed ourselves to a new way of life.
b.Time to study the scriptures and dedicate our lives to the commandments we learn we must live to be happy and have joy.

7. Complete forgiveness of ourselves and forgiveness without any feelings of retribution toward those who have offended us.
8. Finally, the greatest of all blessings: the forgiveness of the Lord. We no longer look back with depression and hurt, but forward to the future with hope and joy and love for God, self, and all mankind. (Robert D. Hales, First Quorum of the Seventy, The Lord Offers Everyone a Way Back from Sin, conference address, October 1976)

So tell me if any of these steps are ignored can a person be seen to be forgiven by the God of LDS church? No? It is clear than when Smith lied saying that he only had one wife he had no recognition that he had done anything wrong.. As he seduced married women he again didn't see his actions as wrong.. He failed to repent according to mormonism's own rules.. Because Smith was an unrepentant sinner he has opened himself up to criticism. Mine is much different even by the list of mormonism's requirements I can show that I have repented.. I did see what I had done was wrong. I committed to God to never repeat this sin, and recommitted myself to follow Jesus more closely. I tried hard to reestablish trust with my wife and ***ured her that my behavior had changed. That was the only way I could make res***ution. I cried out to God for His grace and discussed this sin with my Pastor. I again lived in the word of God allowing His words of correction fill my heart. I blamed no one else for my failing taking full responsibility for my sin.. I took the pain I suffered in a my illnesses, and my car accident as the judgments of God..

So I fulfill every step that your church teaches a man should go through even the time to prove that I was committed to his repentance.. And you compare me with Smith who didn't even get past the very first step? He never repented of his sins.. He deserves then to be harped on. It isn't me that didn't understand the depth and seriousness of my sin.. That all belongs to Smith who didn't see that the seduction of a married woman as a major sin.. So does it still seem fair to remind someone that has repented of his sin even when you praise the man that never bothered to see his sin as even being wrong? If it does God help anyone you know that ever slides into any sin.. You won't forgive even when a person does everything they can to repent.. But then again you allow those that are unrepentant to be held as a great man of God.. Go figure..

Plus, when James preaches that telling your wife you like her dress when you really don't is the same gravity of sin as sleeping with another woman other than your wife, I have to point that out as being quite ludicrous. I mean, let's be real here. If you found out James complimented you on your hair but really hated it, and then he went out and committed adultery, would you be able to forgive him equally? Would one of those sins hurt more then the other? Would the consequences be the same?

It isn't what another person can forgive you of that is the point here.. Yes as mortal men we see divisions in the seriousness of sin.. But the Bible, the rule for Christian life and practice of righteousness tells us that "If we keep the whole law and only offend in one point we are guilty of it all" (James 2:10).. You can say that such a doctrine is a lie, that it is "ludicrous" but it is a point God gave us through the Apostle James and is part of the same context that teaches us that Faith without works is dead.. But since you don't like that part of the teaching of God we receive in that p***age you call it ridiculous and dismiss it as foolish and those that believe all that God has preserved for us in His word as a fool.. You have no room to condemn or teach others that God's word he has given to us is anything but truth.. To teach otherwise is a sin.. But that is your problem to rectify with your God.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

The problem is that you and James continues to harp on how the LDS are sinners, that we are all unforgiven, etc. As long as you continue to point out the sins of others, I will remind you of your sins. Seems fair.

The problem is the difference is that those who follow after false gods will not be forgiven. You seem to miss that point.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The problem is the difference is that those who follow after false gods will not be forgiven. You seem to miss that point.

And so, as I said---your judgment toward us is much harsher than ours toward you.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

The problem is that you and James continues to harp on how the LDS are sinners, that we are all unforgiven, etc. As long as you continue to point out the sins of others, I will remind you of your sins. Seems fair.

Plus, when James preaches that telling your wife you like her dress when you really don't is the same gravity of sin as sleeping with another woman other than your wife, I have to point that out as being quite ludicrous. I mean, let's be real here. If you found out James complimented you on your hair but really hated it, and then he went out and committed adultery, would you be able to forgive him equally? Would one of those sins hurt more then the other? Would the consequences be the same?

Sir,
Please don't lump me in with things James has said to you. I will say that yes, LDS are sinners, we are all sinners, and that is why Jesus Christ came to earth, to redeem us from our sins, his whole reason for hanging on the cross. I have never said you are not forgiven. If you have never repented of a sin then, yes, you would then be an unrepentant sinner. That I would agree to. When have I ever said I was perfect? I am right here confessing to this forum that I am a sinner! I am not ashamed to admit that. Why are you afraid to admit it? It is the first step to receiving Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. And again, there aren't degrees of sinning when you look at sin from God's eyes. He is perfect and can never accept any sin, no matter what it is. A white lie, is still a lie and makes that person a liar even if you did it to not hurt someone's feelings. There are ways to be tactful isn't there? I would never want James to not be honest with me. And I can honestly say that I have asked him many times if he liked what I was wearing or how I had done my hair an he tells me truthfully if he likes it or not. That is what I expect of him. If I look horrible, I don't want to go out in public. Would you want your dear wife to go out in public looking bad because you were afraid to be honest with her? Isn't that deceptive? It is in my book.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

OH, and there has never been any Mormon who has been unfaithful to their spouse? Give me a break! There are none righteous, no NOT ONE! What of all the disgusting Scout Leaders who have molested young boys? And the Bishops who have protected those pedophiles? Come down off your high horse since it's not good to throw stones when one lives in a gl*** house!! You are overly obsessed with my family aren't you along with people's ages too. Hmmmm, have you thought about getting some professional help?

You made my point. Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life. So I use James as an example of the "believers" who didn't allegedly stalked young girls to marry in another life but sought out a woman to be with in THIS life, AGAINST the marriage of his wife. And this, AFTER he left the LDS church and was a "saved, indwelt, believing 'Christian'".

You call it a gl*** house and I say you are right.

As for being obsessed with age, you have made more comments about me being obsessed with age than I have made about age. Think about that for a minute before calling for seeking out psychological help.

And let's not forget that it is YOUR church that claims to be the "Only True Church" but so many certainly don't live it's teachings. Don't go about claiming you have the truth but fail to live it. Why do so many LDS women have to take anti-anxiety meds or anti-depressants? Because the pressure put upon them by their husbands, Bishops and even your prophet is more then they can bear. It' hard enough to be a mother, and wife and then for many to have to work outside the home and be expected to be perfect. I feel very sorry for those trodden down women. Jesus told us to, "come unto me ye who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt. 11:28) Having Christ in your heart and life, no one should feel pressure, no one should worry for He will walk with us, will carry our burdens for he promised he would never leave us, nor forsake us.

Right on cue...tangential tirade of random attacks that have nothing to do with the conversation.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

You made my point. Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life. So I use James as an example of the "believers" who didn't allegedly stalked young girls to marry in another life but sought out a woman to be with in THIS life, AGAINST the marriage of his wife. And this, AFTER he left the LDS church and was a "saved, indwelt, believing 'Christian'".

You call it a gl*** house and I say you are right.

As for being obsessed with age, you have made more comments about me being obsessed with age than I have made about age. Think about that for a minute before calling for seeking out psychological help.



Right on cue...tangential tirade of random attacks that have nothing to do with the conversation.

Only following your lead since reading many of your tirades and comments that never address a question. Why are you so blind as to not understand the way to repentance? If God told us when we ask for His forgiveness, he will remember it NO MORE, what don't you understand about that? Oh, you want to only accept the things written in the Bible that suit you. Guess with your ****ogy, none of your sins have been forgiven either. That is very sad indeed. As for me, I accept what God has taught and take Him at His word, not yours.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

Only following your lead since reading many of your tirades and comments that never address a question. Why are you so blind as to not understand the way to repentance? If God told us when we ask for His forgiveness, he will remember it NO MORE, what don't you understand about that? Oh, you want to only accept the things written in the Bible that suit you. Guess with your ****ogy, none of your sins have been forgiven either. That is very sad indeed. As for me, I accept what God has taught and take Him at His word, not yours.

Problem is, you cannot ask for repentance, receive it, and then claim everyone else you don't agree theologically are unrepentant sinners. And then attack them for their alleged "sins". Seems God might not look on YOUR forgiveness if you are going to judge others...

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

Problem is, you cannot ask for repentance, receive it, and then claim everyone else you don't agree theologically are unrepentant sinners. And then attack them for their alleged "sins". Seems God might not look on YOUR forgiveness if you are going to judge others...

And you continue to judge my husband every time you mention his infidelity! What business is it of yours? This is an incident that happened over 14 years ago. It is in the past but you are obsessed with it.....maybe you want all the juicy details since we know Mormons are sexually repressed individuals. If that were not so, we wouldn't keep hearing of another Boy Scout leader being arrested for molesting young boys or school teachers both male and female having sex with their students.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

And you continue to judge my husband every time you mention his infidelity! What business is it of yours? This is an incident that happened over 14 years ago.

It's my business when someone starts to attack me as not having God, believing a false Jesus, and telling me that complimenting someone on their attire even if I think it's ugly is the same sin as committing adultery. I use it for perspective, not to judge.

It is in the past but you are obsessed with it.....maybe you want all the juicy details since we know Mormons are sexually repressed individuals. If that were not so, we wouldn't keep hearing of another Boy Scout leader being arrested for molesting young boys or school teachers both male and female having sex with their students.

This is exactly my point!!! 1) you always resort to making a point by adding the most far-fetched and ridiculous attacks. 2) You claim LDS people are sexually repressed, and yet I have a perfectly normal and happy sex life, but yet your husband, as a non-Mormon "Christian", must have not been as fortunate since it led him to stray.

See? That's why I bring it up. It provides so many examples of how screwed up your arguments and attacks are toward the LDS people

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

It's my business when someone starts to attack me as not having God, believing a false Jesus, and telling me that complimenting someone on their attire even if I think it's ugly is the same sin as committing adultery. I use it for perspective, not to judge.



This is exactly my point!!! 1) you always resort to making a point by adding the most far-fetched and ridiculous attacks. 2) You claim LDS people are sexually repressed, and yet I have a perfectly normal and happy sex life, but yet your husband, as a non-Mormon "Christian", must have not been as fortunate since it led him to stray.

See? That's why I bring it up. It provides so many examples of how screwed up your arguments and attacks are toward the LDS people

NO! It's not your business but only is showing every member here what a cruel man you are. You take what we say as an attack, and I am sorry that you find it that way. What we've been trying to do for such a long time is show you that the religion you've been raised in has been preaching lies. You believe in a God that was not always God, that he was once a man just as you are a man, is that not true? There is nothing Biblical to defend that idea. You believe a Jesus Christ who was not always God (whom the Bible has always called God) you believe he was a created being, is that not true? I say LDS are sexually repressed only by the many news reports we hear weekly. What else could it be? Yes, the LDS Church teaches good values and they work hard at having strong family ties but somewhere along the line, a ball was dropped. LDS are not perfect people even though some might think they are but you too commit sins. Jesus said that to look at a woman with lust in your heart is no different then actually having sex with that woman. He was referring to our thoughts which are evil and that is sin. So even our thoughts get us into trouble with God. You realize God knows your thoughts, He sees the things you do. There is nothing you can keep from God. Now, James will continue to be here trying to show all the LDS that what has been taught is not Biblical and he is concerned for your eternal salvation. James and I don't wish for anyone to have to stand before God and be judged. God loves you......who else would have given up their life for you or me? He stands at the door and knocks, won't you open that door and let him in? "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Rev. 3:20) Sir, when I kneel before God each night, you are in my prayers along with my brother (he's an atheist) and my in-laws who remain steeped in Mormonism along with several friends. It is so important to me that they will be with God when their lives come to a close.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by neverending

What we've been trying to do for such a long time is show you that the religion you've been raised in has been preaching lies.

But you don't consider that to be an attack? Well, then, what WE have been doing is showing you that the religion YOU are in has been preaching lies. And that isn't an attack on your church, according to your reasoning.

[neverending]

Jeff,
I am not upset at all with your words. Jesus said, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34). In other words, he came knowing that his gospel would cause problems for many but his gospel is the only thing we have to cling to. We were also told we would be hated and persecuted too. I count it all joy. God knows each one of our hearts. He knows who will and won't accept his plan of salvation and I am not referring to resurrection but eternal life living with God. When I began studying Mormonism and came to the conclusion that so many doctrines that I had questioned were not following the Bible, I became very upset. When I discovered the misleading doctrines and made up my mind to leave Mormonism, please don't think it was an easy thing for me to do, it wasn't; it was the hardest thing I ever did. The relationship with my parents and friends was forever changed.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by neverending

Jeff, I am not upset at all with your words.

That is good if true. I was just trying to show you that if the things you say about our church don't count as attacks, then the things Joseph Smith claimed Jesus told him about other churches can't count as an attack either, and therefore neither side is doing any attacking, I guess.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by neverending

NO! It's not your business but only is showing every member here what a cruel man you are. You take what we say as an attack, and I am sorry that you find it that way. What we've been trying to do for such a long time is show you that the religion you've been raised in has been preaching lies. You believe in a God that was not always God, that he was once a man just as you are a man, is that not true? There is nothing Biblical to defend that idea. You believe a Jesus Christ who was not always God (whom the Bible has always called God) you believe he was a created being, is that not true? I say LDS are sexually repressed only by the many news reports we hear weekly. What else could it be? Yes, the LDS Church teaches good values and they work hard at having strong family ties but somewhere along the line, a ball was dropped. LDS are not perfect people even though some might think they are but you too commit sins. Jesus said that to look at a woman with lust in your heart is no different then actually having sex with that woman. He was referring to our thoughts which are evil and that is sin. So even our thoughts get us into trouble with God. You realize God knows your thoughts, He sees the things you do. There is nothing you can keep from God. Now, James will continue to be here trying to show all the LDS that what has been taught is not Biblical and he is concerned for your eternal salvation. James and I don't wish for anyone to have to stand before God and be judged. God loves you......who else would have given up their life for you or me? He stands at the door and knocks, won't you open that door and let him in? "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Rev. 3:20) Sir, when I kneel before God each night, you are in my prayers along with my brother (he's an atheist) and my in-laws who remain steeped in Mormonism along with several friends. It is so important to me that they will be with God when their lives come to a close.

Amen! You are absolutely correct!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Problem is, you cannot ask for repentance, receive it, and then claim everyone else you don't agree theologically are unrepentant sinners. And then attack them for their alleged "sins". Seems God might not look on YOUR forgiveness if you are going to judge others...

If I claimed to not sin or have some special justification that no one else has access to, I would agree with you. But when a know it all Bible hater comes along and condemns all scripture he disagrees with. I can say that such a man is on the wide road without endangering my place as God's child.. Was John the baptist a sinner in the eyes of God (Romans 3:23). Did he not accuse king Herod of sin? I guess he didn't have the right to try to bring Him to repentance.. That is how silly your charges against me are.. Yes I sinned.. I have also turned from it and sinned in many other ways instead.. I claim only the righteousness of Jesus that is offered to all who will believe Him.. I claim none of my own.. Is that what you claim or do you claim more and better righteousness than me because I committed adultery over 10 years ago.. All you prove in your continued barking about it is that you deny that Jesus can forgive sin.. I am not concerned about being judge by God as I judge the LDS.. If they have any unconfessed sin in their life. Sin that they have not taking to Jesus. They will have to pay for that sin themselves and the wages of sin, even a small sin, is death.. Spiritual death in the Lake of Fire.. So even that small sin makes them unclean and NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.. I hope you have had a good memory and have confessed and repented of ALL your sin, Sin like bearing a false witness of calling someone HYPOCRITE WHO is not deserving of such a ti tle.. IHS jim

[neverending]

When did I say this, "Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life." I never said any such thing! I said, Scout Leaders who molest young boys and their Bishops protecting the pedophiles. Sorry, you've got me confused with another poster. Don't accuse me of things I didn't say.